The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by crookeddy, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    More wishful thinking than anything else. Hoping to demonstrate just how wrong Johnson was in his choices.
     
  2. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ You're being unnecessarily generous and lending legitimacy to notions that don't deserve any (legitimacy).
     
  3. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Well I don't think that we are going to get JJ the undoer just because her doesn't like what Johnson did. I think he approved it to begin with. My concern is that Disney has taken note of the haters, and want more positive publicity for their biggest franchise. The Force awakens was a warm blanket and the last Jedi was a cold shower. The warm blanket made a lot more money, so it's very conceivable that the bean counters want a return to that.
     
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  4. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    How can a content creator be "wrong"? He was given the reigns, and this is the story he chose to tell. (With full permission from the powers that be)
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Dismissing them as illegitimate will not change minds or build bridges.

    I will always be generous.
    Um, ask the haters of Rian Johnson, who are convinced that he ruined what Abrams intended to do. It's a common thread I see among more dissatisfied audience members that films that don't follow specific interpretation of said material are wrong. Period. Abrams was wrong with Star Trek. Ridley Scott was wrong with Prometheus, and on and on.

    I'm not saying its rational. I'm saying what I have observed.
     
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  6. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's not how it works.

    Lucasfilm is not going to let a tiny minority of dissenting voices dictate how they finish up a story that they themselves fully support.

    Then I feel like you're adding fuel to the fire.

    People need to be called out when they're spouting nonsense, even if doing so "steps on a few toes".
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I know this.

    It doesn't change minds of those who wish Abrams to undo Johnson's choices. I'm not talking about LFL's choices as they will make up their own mind. I'm talking about expectations of audience members who do not care for TLJ.

    This is unnecessarily combative regarding my assertion of expectations that I think some might hold.
     
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  8. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some people just don’t like TLJ. I believe completely dismissing their opinions out of hand is unfair. Some of them are uninformed, certainly and yes, probably some Russian bots played a part in some misinformation. But jumping to the conclusion that any and all people against the movie are in that camp isn’t helping either.
     
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  9. Kirk Prime

    Kirk Prime Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe you should widen your circle--I know plenty of people who hated it. And while yes, Youtubers are a passionate base, their arguments are pretty valid.

    I think that's a fair point on all accounts. That said, how many movies can you think of that were loathed by the passionate fan base, but liked by the general public? I don't think there was a vast conspiracy to lower TLJ's RT score. It was just not a good movie.

    There are movies that the world can hate and you can like. Guilty pleasures. Nothing wrong with that.

    Why? It's fiction and a big galaxy. Just do another story. Luke didn't have to die in Rogue One.

    Ok yes--I said it wasn't all that bad--I didn't say it was great. You just picked out two moments that I would never in my life attempt to defend.

    We are getting off topic, but I think Episode III did well at least with the lightsaber battles and the turn of Anakin. It wasn't great, but it wasn't a turd.

    Unexpected places isn't that big of a deal if the movie sucks. So yes, undoing the damage SHOULD be the goal of the next movie because they owe the audience an apology.

    Interesting because Abrams is not very good at marketing--this is the guy that thought it was a good idea to not advertise Khan in a movie that had Khan.

    No doubt, the first trailer will up some excitement, but I think you may be underestimating the backlash over TLJ. People are REALLY mad. Solo, which actually was a decent movie, got hurt by this backlash.
     
  10. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My circle is pretty wide. I’ve lived in three cities in six years and have never had trouble making friends. Out of the Star Wars fans in that group? One. One hated it. Everyone else at least enjoyed some of it. Believe me, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop.
     
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  11. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not "dismissing" negative opinions about The Last Jedi "out of hand"; what I'm rejecting is the notion of legitimizing easily disprovable notions such as "JJ Abrams is going to use Episode IX to undo elements of what Rian Johnson did in The Last Jedi" when said viewpoint isn't borne out of genuine ignorance by couching said viewpoint as "wishful thinking".

    If people aren't genuinely ignorant of JJ Abrams' involvement in the production of The Last Jedi and yet are still convinced that he is going to use Episode IX to change elements of that film, said people are straight-up deluding themselves and others should not be hesitant in calling out said delusion as being exactly that: a delusion.

    That is the point I was making.

    IOW, fact-checking should be done when people say things that are blatantly inaccurate, regardless of how said fact-checking might make them feel.
     
  12. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    What has been a continual issue in this day and age is that people are not content to simply share their personal opinions but rather they wish to QUANTIFY them, and have them be OBJECTIVELY superior to the opinions of others. There is a non-trivial amount of money available to folks who are known to stridently argue the superiority of their opinion.
    When you can monetize an argument, there will be lots of arguments.
     
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  13. Campe98

    Campe98 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Oh, so much THIS!
     
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  14. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Abrams did the impossible, and made a blockbuster level Star Trek movie. He then made the highest grossing (domestically) movie of all time. I think his marketing skills are just fine, despite some missteps that you mentioned.
     
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  15. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Provide proof that it's a "tiny minority".
     
  16. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    If JJ wasn't so good at what he does, he wouldn't incite such anger. Nothing angers a certain segment of fandom more than not having objective proof that their opinion is correct.
     
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  17. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    Because the average moviegoer doesn't know or care about Khan. These weren't movies for Star Trek fans, even if some fans liked them, so advertising a character like Khan might have actually turned people away. What he did do was make sure everyone knew Nimoy's Spock would be in the first movie - that's the main character from TOS that people care/know about outside the fandom.
     
  18. crookeddy

    crookeddy Commodore Commodore

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    Khan is the main villain from the most popular pre-Abrams movie... If it wasn't for money, why DID he put him in the movie?

    Anyway, don't answer that, I got way off topic, sorry.
     
  19. HugeLobes

    HugeLobes Captain Captain

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    You can't reply to me then tell me not to answer... I imagine he's in there because his presence would appeal to some Trek fans, and, yes, because he's a name some people would know. But there's a difference between putting him in there and advertising his presence. By being in the movie, he brings in the fans. In the ads, he might turn away average moviegoers who don't care about Trek, and that's the viewers he cared most about.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  20. King Bob!

    King Bob! History’s Greatest Monster Premium Member

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    I overall liked The Last Jedi, but the scenes with Snoke's ship chasing the Rebellion were mostly a slog to get through. I loved the Luke/Rey/Ren stuff.

    Nothing is perfect. Not even the stuff that we remember fondly and have emotional attachment to. It drives me crazy now how lax Security was on Kirk's Enterprise. :eek: