The lack of national diversity in the Discovery cast...

[XCV330]

The difference being they are openly trying to sell Discovery to international markets. The original Star Trek was the most diverse of the lot, and the rest have been living on that reputation for forty-plus years now.

Somehow Star Wars has resonated with worldwide audiences, a story about anti-governmental terrorists led by a religious fanatic rebelling against his dad who exist in a universe where 90% of the universe is human with about 3 black people, and where the bad guys have Recieved English accents and the good guys are American.

 

[BillJ]

Somehow Star Wars has resonated with worldwide audiences, a story about anti-governmental terrorists led by a religious fanatic rebelling against his dad who exist in a universe where 90% of the universe is human with about 3 black people, and where the bad guys have Recieved English accents and the good guys are American.

I think it is a bit different because Star Wars isn't supposed to be the future of planet Earth.

 

[XCV330]

I think it is a bit different because Star Wars isn't supposed to be the future of planet Earth.

Lucas didn't want to get sued by Asimov. Doesn't really matter where or when it takes place, though. A human is a human.

 

[BillJ]

Lucas didn't want to get sued by Asimov. Doesn't really matter where or when it takes place, though. A human is a human.

I'm talking about fandom. And there's a lot of people out there that have issues with Star Wars lack of diversity. They are just mesmerized by the blinking lights.

 

[PSWallace]

I am also distressed by the lack of temporal diversity. This series is only using actors from the present day, and I find this case of "presentism" incredibly stilted. What about the actors of the future, those not yet born? What will they think when they don't see any of their generation in the series?

 

[donners22]

It has always been an American-centric show, but it is becoming more striking with the diversity in other shows and the wider distribution of Discovery.

I don't want it to be like some of the novels, which lay it on a bit thick, but a variety of accents would be welcome.

It's easily avoided. Trek has, for instance, used numerous Australian and Kiwi actors - Chris Hemsworth, Eric Bana, Judith Anderson, Nick Tate, Alan Dale, Kimberley Davies, Wendy Hughes, etc - but I think only Hughes used something close to her natural accent.

 

[Brainsucker]

This point was raised on another forum, and I wonder what you guys think:

Discovery is, within a modern American context, a reasonably diverse cast. You have a seemingly straight, seemingly white captain, an alien first officer, a science officer who is gay and in what we would consider an "interracial relationship" today, a half-desi chief of security (who replaced a full desi one who was killed), a black woman, and a white woman who is arguably not neurotypical.

However, there is one way in which Discovery is not diverse at all. All of the human characters appear to be American, either explicitly or judging by their accents. The decision to have the two British main cast members not use their natural accents and play as Americans (explicitly in the case of Ash Tyler, since he's from Seattle) is in particular rather odd.

The other Trek shows at least made an attempt to be a bit international in their depictions of Earth:

TOS had a Scotsman and a Russian. Uhura's descent was never made clear, but since she spoke Swahili, presumably she was either from Africa or her parents were.

TNG had Picard (canonically French, but British in his presentation), and Geordi (theoretically Somalian). Worf was raised by Russian parents, and while Troi's father's heritage was never made clear, they didn't make Marina Sirtis hide her accent. Yar came from an off-world Human colony with its own unique culture as well.

In DS9, The Sisko family were the only human main characters who came from the United States. O'Brien was of course Irish and married to a woman from Japan. Bashir's place of origin was never made clear, but he and his father had English accents.

Voyager was more homogenized in terms of the acting cast, but the origins of the characters were diverse. Torres and Chakotay were both born on offworld colonies, with the latter clearly not growing up in the homogenized, pseudo-American culture of the Federation.

Enterprise had Malcolm Reed (English) and Hoshi Sato (Japanese, theoretically). Mayweather was theoretically interesting given he was not only born offworld, but on a ship as part of a cargo freight-carrying subculture, but little was ever done with it.

Regardless, the point is that in every single previous Trek show, there was at least a character or two who was explicitly not American, plus a few more who may have presented as such, but at least had a backstory linking the to another part of the Earth or an off-world colony. Why in this particular case did the showrunners decide to go with an "All American" set of characters - to the point of even making the two Brits mask their native accents?

What are you talking about? This is an American TV Show. So most of the casts should be Americans, or actor / actress who live in USA and Canada. Should CBS invite foreign actors / actress from all around the world? Like from Bollywood, China, Japan, Africa, etc just for more authentic accent? And who will paying for that? You can wish for it if ST Discovery is a 100 million budget show, but it's not. As for the English Accent, I don't really care about it, because as a non native English speaker, the American Accent is actually the easiest to hear and understand. Australian Accent, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Singaporean, etc are actually harder to hear when they speak in English.

And if you want diversity, why everyone talk in English? Accent is not enough to show diversity. Just let all the foreign origin characters speak in their own language. That will be more authentic. Because for those people who don't speak English in their everyday life, they don't actually care about accent. Should a Spanish audience impress when an American actor said in English with Spanish Accent? Or Chinese watcher happy when Georgeau speak English in their Chinese Accent? No. They don't care about it. Because ST Discovery is an American TV Show. Watching ST Discovery means watching USA, and their culture. They don't need to see their counterpart, or their fellow countrymen to be part in the show.

For me, as a SE Asian, if I want to see a Chinese, I will see Chinese drama, if I want to see a Russian, I will seek a Russian one. If I want to see black people, I will go to watch TV Show from Africa. Or if I want to see Indian, I will see Bollywood movies. Even the Mexican have a very good quality TV show that have a lot of fans around the world. There are many movies and TV Shows in the world that represent their own country. That the quality is not even lower than the American one. So I don't really care about the diversity in ST Show. It's an American show. So just show us what the America look like.

So, rather than looking at foreign origin actor / actress in a ST show, I want to see Americans in the show. Where is the white people? Where is the American Hispanic? Where is the American other races? They can diverse, but what I expect to see are Americans. Not Spanish, British, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Indian, Middle Eastern, Africa, etc. So who care about the accent? Just be yourself.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

"

Javid Iqbal is in all of us.

Je suis Javid Iqbal

 

[The Memetic Susurrus]

IIRC Jason Isaacs independently decided to give Lorca a southern accent, but he might have been instructed to play as American regardless. I think he pulls off the accent flawlessly, so I can't complain.

I do think making Ash Tyler American was a mistake however. I don't think Latif's accent is perfect, and I think his attempts to keep sounding "American" at all times are hurting his performance a bit.

I do not think Lorca sounds Southern in the least. Perhaps a transplanted Missourian from St. Louis but certainly not one who stayed close to his roots.

 

[urbandefault]

If people are bothered by the casting of a show on a subscription service, there is a remedy. Vote with your wallet. In other words, don't frickin' pay for it.

It's a simple concept, apparently difficult to grasp.

 

[Kemaiku]

Yup, and due to it being stuck in the past I won't support it.

 

[Christopher]

What are you talking about? This is an American TV Show. So most of the casts should be Americans, or actor / actress who live in USA and Canada.

Wow, you're really behind the times. A ton of American shows these days have British or Australian lead actors doing American accents. There's Charlie Cox in Daredevil, Finn Jones in Iron Fist, Sullivan Stapleton and Marianne Jean-Baptiste in Blindspot, Franz Drameh and Maisie Richardson-Sellers in Legends of Tomorrow, Keiynan Lonsdale in The Flash, Rose McIver in iZombie, Eliza Taylor in The 100, countless others.

The whole point of acting, after all, is to pretend to be someone you're not. So where an actor comes from shouldn't make any difference, as long as they can play the part.

So I don't really care about the diversity in ST Show. It's an American show. So just show us what the America look like.

But it's not set in America. It's set in a conjectural future where Earth is a united, global society. So it's implausible if its portrayal of that unified, globalized humanity looks exactly like 20th- or 21st-century America.

In the original series, only Kirk and McCoy were clearly American. Spock was from Vulcan, Scott was from Scotland, Uhura was from the United States of Africa, Chekov was from Russia. Sulu would be established in the movies as American, but he was conceived in TOS as a "pan-Asian" character of non-specific origin, albeit culturally Westernized. So there was a definite attempt to portray a globally representative crew. The later shows did it to some extent with their Earth-native characters -- Picard was from France, La Forge was theoretically from Somalia according to his personnel file, Tasha was of Russian ancestry, O'Brien was from Ireland, Bashir and Reed were English, Sato was Japanese, etc.

 

[midnightz]

Unfortunately, I think Americans have problems understanding accents outside their own. I've seen so many times subtitles appear when a foreign person is speaking despite the language being perfectly clear. At least Yeoh kept her beautiful accent. Also, Ash Tyler would need to have an American accent to keep in line with his backstory.

 

[Christopher]

Also, Ash Tyler would need to have an American accent to keep in line with his backstory.

That's just the thing, though -- they didn't need to give him an American backstory. They could've made him a Londoner like the actor, say.

 

[Brainsucker]

Wow, you're really behind the times. A ton of American shows these days have British or Australian lead actors doing American accents. There's Charlie Cox in Daredevil, Finn Jones in Iron Fist, Sullivan Stapleton and Marianne Jean-Baptiste in Blindspot, Franz Drameh and Maisie Richardson-Sellers in Legends of Tomorrow, Keiynan Lonsdale in The Flash, Rose McIver in iZombie, Eliza Taylor in The 100, countless others.

The whole point of acting, after all, is to pretend to be someone you're not. So where an actor comes from shouldn't make any difference, as long as they can play the part.

But it's not set in America. It's set in a conjectural future where Earth is a united, global society. So it's implausible if its portrayal of that unified, globalized humanity looks exactly like 20th- or 21st-century America.

In the original series, only Kirk and McCoy were clearly American. Spock was from Vulcan, Scott was from Scotland, Uhura was from the United States of Africa, Chekov was from Russia. Sulu would be established in the movies as American, but he was conceived in TOS as a "pan-Asian" character of non-specific origin, albeit culturally Westernized. So there was a definite attempt to portray a globally representative crew. The later shows did it to some extent with their Earth-native characters -- Picard was from France, La Forge was theoretically from Somalia according to his personnel file, Tasha was of Russian ancestry, O'Brien was from Ireland, Bashir and Reed were English, Sato was Japanese, etc.

Then if you say about pretend, why limit only to the accent? Don't you think that it is pointless? I'm not an American. Nor white. I'm not even a Native English Speaker. I don't speak English in my everyday life. I'm also not stick myself to only American shows. I've seen many movies from different countries. So I don't care about the accent. Because not everyone in this world speak English. If they pretend to be Russian, French, Spain, German, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian, etc, why they still speak English? Do people in China, Russia, French, Spain etc care about their English accent? no. They care only their own language, and English as another people's language. So if you really care about the character from Russia, then let him / her speak Russian with Russian native accent. Not American Russian Accent. If not, why still need to bother?

Diversity in Nationality? Why not also diversity in Language, and if you care about accent, why don't your actor / actress speak in those countries language with those countries accent? Now, can they? Or should you import actors and actress from the origin of that language come from? If so, will ST Discovery budget capable to keep with the cost? Maybe you're idealistic, but not idealistic enough to represent what you want. For me, who have exposed into different countries movies with different languages in their native accents, What the American doing with accent is pointless. Because English with foreign accent doesn't represent their country of origin. Their language with their native accent is what represent them. But for me, it doesn't matter to not have them. Including the weird accents. Because I'm not idealistic, and I don't pretend to be.

 

[Boomer359]

It's not perfect head-cannon, but I always liked to think that the accents were a product of the universal translator. I mean, why else would Klingons, Vulcans, Cardassians, Bajorans, and whoever else happen to be an alien of the week speak with an American accent? Any other accented English is that character actually speaking English.

In many ways, I always felt like the non-English speaking audience got a more authentically in-universe feel for the show because all the dialog was dubbed into the local language, so nothing lined up with the actors' lips, as I imagine a real universal translator would work.

 

[Brainsucker]

It's not perfect head-cannon, but I always liked to think that the accents were a product of the universal translator. I mean, why else would Klingons, Vulcans, Cardassians, Bajorans, and whoever else happen to be an alien of the week speak with an American accent? Any other accented English is that character actually speaking English.

In many ways, I always felt like the non-English speaking audience got a more authentically in-universe feel for the show because all the dialog was dubbed into the local language, so nothing lined up with the actors' lips, as I imagine a real universal translator would work.

Yes, it can be work. But why do they speak English in an environment that has a very powerful universal translator that can translate everything? Earth official language is English? Or Starfleet use only English? What prevent a character, where in the world that universal translator can translate a non human language with ease, to speak in their own native language and translated into English via universal translator? So why still care about the accent?

 

[Boomer359]

Yes, it can be work. But why do they speak English in an environment that has a very powerful universal translator that can translate everything? Earth official language is English? Or Starfleet use only English? What prevent a character, where in the world that universal translator can translate a non human language with ease, to speak in their own native language and translated into English via universal translator? So why still care about the accent?

Honestly, with the accents, I was thinking more along the lines of Bashir or O'Brien; characters who natively speak English, just with something other than an American accent. As to why anyone else would speak English, like Chekov or Worf's parents, wasn't there a line in one of the TOS movies (maybe in STIII when McCoy is trying charter a ship) that referred to English as Basic or some other such nonsense?

The idea of the translator is kinda wonky, anyway. Why does it not translate Klingon curse words, for instance?

 

[Brainsucker]

Honestly, with the accents, I was thinking more along the lines of Bashir or O'Brien; characters who natively speak English, just with something other than an American accent. As to why anyone else would speak English, like Chekov or Worf's parents, wasn't there a line in one of the TOS movies (maybe in STIII when McCoy is trying charter a ship) that referred to English as Basic or some other such nonsense?

The idea of the translator is kinda wonky, anyway. Why does it not translate Klingon curse words, for instance?

So basically the Earth official language is English? Too arrogant. But it's okay. it's an American TV show anyway. Who care about it.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

So basically the Earth official language is English? Too arrogant. But it's okay. it's an American TV show anyway. Who care about it.

Well you're here discussing it, so there's one person.