Spoilers The Flash - Season 3

[sojourner]

I can see it now when he gets unmasked. It'll be like something out of Robot Chicken.

"It was you! all along!?! Julian!"

"Wow, yeah! You guys are total chumps! Put me in that chair and had me" <air quotes with hands for emphasis> "channel Savitar". "What a bunch of idiots! You fell for a silly voice and a bunch of generic fake predictions! God I love you guys, bu-bye!" <speeds off into the night>

 

[tomalak301]

I'm having difficulty with my thoughts on this episode. There were aspects of it that I really liked, mainly a return of the Savitar storyline (Specificially when Savitar said Barry might be the big bad, which almost made the character sympathetic...almost), but reading the comments, I'm confused by it. I think it has to do with the fact that for the first time since December, we've finally seen Savitar again but this series is playing with time travel and the speed force (Aspects of the show that I've always been confused by, to be honest) and I'm not sure if I liked the episode or not. I think my issue with it is this show is almost falling on the time travel sword to the point where what made the show fun in the first season has overstayed its welcome midway through Season 3. I don't know what other facets of The Flash there are in the comics, but I'm more interested in Cisco realizing his Vibe ability, or Caitlin's storyline having to deal with her interpersonal demons as Killer Frost. Heck, the stuff between Julian and Caitlin in this second half might become my favorite aspects when all is said and done because there's actual character development there. I hated Julian at the beginning of the season because he came across as an unlikable bastard. Now, he's the most interesting character on the show, and I hate to see him end up being a bad guy because this Savitar plot demands it, or just him dying because of the same reason.

I think what I'm getting at overall is we have this big universe to play in and this series is going back to the same well for the second season in a row. Wally is in the speedforce? Hey, that's where Berry was last season for an episode or 2. Savitar reappears, so did Zoom. We don't know Savitar's identity? Well, we didn't know Zoom's either until a few episodes to the end. How about doing what Arrow just did and really giving us more meat on Savitar to drive the story for the next 7 episodes. I'm not saying I hate mystery, but I hate how this so called mystery is dragging to the point where it feels like a year ago since we were in Flashpoint. I want consequences for actions now, not more actions, if that makes any sense. We know Iris isn't going to die (Even though that would be a big eye-raise if the writers did actually kill her off, which I would actually welcome because it changes the status quo), but the feeling this second half of the season is the same feeling I had leading to a character's death in Season 4 of Arrow. Stop dragging your feet and get on with it.

As for Wally, I wish he was written better. He was kind of an idiot in this episode, and Team flash really should have used Wally's hallucinations more than they did Julian. Hell, They really could have given Savitar a lot of backstory through the Hallucinations and it would have made Wally's actions at the end and his imprisonment have more of an impact than it did. It would have been better than using Julian as a guinea pig over and over. Also, did Lionsdale get more hair in this episode? Kind of looked like his appearance changed quite a bit.

 

[Xerxes82]

Watching this episode, and its reveals on Savitar, I keep coming back to one question. Is he going to turn out to be Barry from the future, or Wally from the future? Barry seems the more likely to me, and this episode reinforced that to a pretty strong degree.

The "future Flash" versus "future, Flash" thing has already been noted in the thread. But the moment that stuck out to me, in addition to that, was when Barry threatened to kill Savitar. Savitar's response (paraphrasing, sorry if I get it wrong) was "If you could have ended my life in the future, you would have. But Barry Allen doesn't kill." The phrasing of that first sentence is really quite striking to me. Not "If you could have killed me." But "If you could have ended my life."

What do we know about Savitar's future rampage from previous episodes? I honestly don't recall any details, so maybe some of you with sharper memories can help out. In this episode he mentions destroying Central City, and that only HR escapes his wrath, because HR is a coward.

Hypothesis: Savitar is Barry from a future where Iris has died. Distraught, and maybe a little bit suicidal (though he can't go through with it), he tries to do something Barry-esque, probably threatening to change time again or something else that turns his friends against him, and it destroys Central City, though HR escapes. At that point, Barry is trapped in the Speed Force somehow, loses his mind and becomes Savitar. Which queues up Savitar's line when he kills Iris, "Finally I'm free of you!" Which could be either Savitar rejoicing that Flash (himself) is about to go rogue and disappear, leaving Savitar as the Future Flash, or finally proclaiming himself free of the hold that Iris has on Barry, the source of his madness.

Thus, defeating Savitar means changing the future, just not in the way that Team Flash thinks.

Or it could be Wally. Or I'm totally wrong, as usual. Lol. Hey, at least this episode finally got me a little hyped moving forward. This season has felt king of same-y in terms of beats and drama. But here we finally got something interesting to build on for the rest of the year.

 

[cylkoth]

It'll most likely turn out to be.... DIGGLE! He only pretended to forgive Barry for turning his little girl that he can't remember into a boy! He was looking forward to having tea parties, now he's stuck dragging the kid to little league between crime fighting sessions.

 

[Christopher]

It'll most likely turn out to be.... DIGGLE! He only pretended to forgive Barry for turning his little girl that he can't remember into a boy! He was looking forward to having tea parties, now he's stuck dragging the kid to little league between crime fighting sessions.

Hey, this is the 21st century. There's no reason a boy can't have tea parties.

 

[dahj]

Now, he's the most interesting character on the show, and I hate to see him end up being a bad guy because this Savitar plot demands it, or just him dying because of the same reason.

I don't think he is the "bad guy pretending to be good" like Zoom last season, and Thawne before him, the way I figure it all we've seen of Julian so far is genuine, and at some point (soon) he'll get his speed, and the activation of his metagenes will turn him mad and evil, and that's probably why they're playing up the "Killer Frost is evil" angle, to have a precedent of a good person gone bad due to powers.
And with how much emphasis they've put on "Barry doesn't kill" this season I should hope they don't kill him off either, but find another way to fix him up(maybe through fixing Caitlin as well) instead.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

If Julian goes bad and becomes Savitar, that could be a catalyst for Caitlin to embrace Killer Frost to stay with him?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Savatar's body, looks like it can survive making love to a woman who's surface temperature is 80 below.

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[tomalak301]

I don't think he is the "bad guy pretending to be good" like Zoom last season, and Thawne before him, the way I figure it all we've seen of Julian so far is genuine, and at some point (soon) he'll get his speed, and the activation of his metagenes will turn him mad and evil, and that's probably why they're playing up the "Killer Frost is evil" angle, to have a precedent of a good person gone bad due to powers.
And with how much emphasis they've put on "Barry doesn't kill" this season I should hope they don't kill him off either, but find another way to fix him up(maybe through fixing Caitlin as well) instead.

Wait where did you get the speculation that Julian is a speedster?

 

[dahj]

Wait where did you get the speculation that Julian is a speedster?

I don't think he's a speedster yet, but that he will become one soon and turn into Savitar.
It's just my theory, I've explained in my post on the previous page why I think he fits and why I believe the whole "future Flash" thing is an intentional misdirect.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm feeling that Savitar is Wally.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Hey, this is the 21st century. There's no reason a boy can't have tea parties.

They already do. That is why the US has a Republican Congress.

 

[Noname Given]

I can see it now when he gets unmasked. It'll be like something out of Robot Chicken.

"It was you! all along!?! Julian!"

"Wow, yeah! You guys are total chumps! Put me in that chair and had me" <air quotes with hands for emphasis> "channel Savitar". "What a bunch of idiots! You fell for a silly voice and a bunch of generic fake predictions! God I love you guys, bu-bye!" <speeds off into the night>

No, no..NO!

You need a line of:
"And I STILL got away with it in spite of all you meddling kids!"

 

[Romulan_spy]

I can see it now when he gets unmasked. It'll be like something out of Robot Chicken.

"It was you! all along!?! Julian!"

"Wow, yeah! You guys are total chumps! Put me in that chair and had me" <air quotes with hands for emphasis> "channel Savitar". "What a bunch of idiots! You fell for a silly voice and a bunch of generic fake predictions! God I love you guys, bu-bye!" <speeds off into the night>

But doesn't that repeat the same plot point as season 1 and 2 where the evil speedster hid as the good guy right in their midst? Season 1 it was Reverse Zoom masquerading as Harrison Wells. Season 2 it was Zoom masquerading as fake Jay Garrick and now season 3 Savatar is Julian? Also, if that happens poor Caitlin. She fell for the fake Jay Garrick and now she is falling for poor Julian. That would be 2 evil speedsters that deceive her.

 

[sojourner]

But doesn't that repeat the same plot point as season 1 and 2 where the evil speedster hid as the good guy right in their midst? Season 1 it was Reverse Zoom masquerading as Harrison Wells. Season 2 it was Zoom masquerading as fake Jay Garrick and now season 3 Savatar is Julian? Also, if that happens poor Caitlin. She fell for the fake Jay Garrick and now she is falling for poor Julian. That would be 2 evil speedsters that deceive her.

Which is why it would be like something out of Robot Chicken.

 

[dahj]

Even if it's future Barry or Wally, they're still "hiding in their midst", so there's really no way to avoid that...

 

[Christopher]

Ooh, here's a wacky theory: Savitar is... the Flash's costume! Cisco programmed its onboard computers too well, and all the Speed Force it's absorbed has given it sentience, why not. When it achieves full consciousness, it will abandon Barry and go off on its own, turning the Flash into the Flasher.

 

[Noname Given]

Ooh, here's a wacky theory: Savitar is... the Flash's costume! Cisco programmed its onboard computers too well, and all the Speed Force it's absorbed has given it sentience, why not. When it achieves full consciousness, it will abandon Barry and go off on its own, turning the Flash into the Flasher.

Nah - (crossover time) - Savatar is Captain Rip Hunter's and Gideon's 'Love Child' [which spang from the recent mental incursion he experienced] --

 

[Xerxes82]

Ooh, here's a wacky theory: Savitar is... the Flash's costume! Cisco programmed its onboard computers too well, and all the Speed Force it's absorbed has given it sentience, why not. When it achieves full consciousness, it will abandon Barry and go off on its own, turning the Flash into the Flasher.

Not gonna lie, this is probably better than what we'll actually get.

 

[Gaith]

Finally current with the show after a few weeks of being behind. So, I gotta say that it was fitting that "Attack on Gorilla City" had a sandy arena, because HOLY HELL was the Wally/Jessie romantic dialogue in that episode Attack of the Clones-level awful! I'd paraphrase it, but it seems I've successfully forgotten it entirely; I just remember that it was some of the worst scripting I'd heard in a very long time. Just vague nonsense about "really caring for you" because neither of these two actors have anything resembling three-dimensional characters to play. Anyone else remember when Wally was interested in engineering? Yeah, neither do the writers. Wasn't he a college student at some point? Damned if I know at this point.

Also, Jessie must be braindead to get to the end of Casablanca before asking about which war it depicts (not to mention turning off the frickin' final scene). Also also, I don't believe for a moment that Casablanca is Wally's favorite movie. A guy who never, ever shuts up about how badly he wants Speed and to be a superhero does not have a story about giving up the girl and quietly walking off to good in the shadows as his #1 film. Fast Five, I'd buy. Or Deep Blue Sea. Anaconda, even. Top Gun, why the hell not.

Hey, anyone else remember when Clancy Brown was on this show? And didn't die?

I'm confused as to whether being in the Speed Force is a bad thing or not. Didn't Barry have a pretty pleasant interlude there last year? Okay, Savitar might hate it because Evil Does Not Like Good, but then why is everyone else so distraught about Wally being trapped therein?

Some AV Club commentariat for us all:

HR accepting to be Barry's Best Man was hilarious, and the scene where Jessie embraced him despite him not having anything particularly helpful to say was a really nice moment.

Nice mood lighting across this ep. I liked it overall, especially given the way it teases me with a Wally-free Flash. Granted, he's not anywhere near as useless a character as Andy Diggle, but the sooner he leaves the main cast roster, the better.