Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    Correct stats. You never even read them have you? This is the price we pay for a media that point blank will not report it.

    White Males Killed: 434
    BlK Females Killed: 2

    Are there more White males than Black females? Yes. But not 217x as many. There are only 5x as many. Which means White males are killed at 217 the NUMBER, but dozens of times the RATE, per capita.

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    2. Tell what to the "January attack"? A tiny % of the people at the event engaged in one riot for 4 hours on one afternoon, with no one having guns? Ever try to overthrow a country and forget to bring your gun? There was no "insurrection".


    3. Biden ALSO ran against Trump. Nothing to do with the "Overclass". Millions of White voters decided to go for Libertarians and Greens. Hillary drops a couple of points among Whites. That's where they went. And then Biden gets back those couple of points, and wins. That's it.

    4. Murder the Senate? With what? His spear? Or was QAnon Shaman going to gore them with his horns? LOL

    5. No idea who you are talking about. No reason to believe the US Govt would refuse a Black CA if that were real in our World. Biden or Obama would refuse? Why? Why would even Trump refuse? You are making all of this up.
     
  2. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So the fact that none of the 46 presidents to date, and less than a third of Congresspersons today, have been/are women is... coincidence? Not to mention less than 10% of major company CEOs?

    There's been discussion upthread about whether the racial arguments aired in the series imply that the MCU hasn't had a Black president. I don't think there was. But that's, like, my opinion, man.
     
  3. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    December 7th. September 11th. January 6th. Never forget.
     
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  4. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    Even to imply that this minor riot by unarmed people was on par with Al Qaeda and the Empire of Japan is what we call BlueAnon. Every bit as unhinged and paranoid as QAnon.

    They didnt intentionally kill anyone and no evidence they attempted to. Ashli Babbitt was the only one shot and killed, and she was unarmed and shot dead by Police. And the BLM/Antifa riots were far, far more numerous, continuous, violent and destructive.

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  5. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    One of these is not like the others. Can you guess?

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  6. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How are you a Star Trek fan given your political views? You know that Picard is basically a communist right?
     
  7. Skipper

    Skipper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Err... really? This is the hill you want die on..?
     
  8. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    December 7th. September 11th. January 6th. Never forget. Never forgive.
     
  9. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then you've never understood not only who Steve Rogers is/was in terms of his belief that the best of what Captain America represents needed to continue in a darker world where moral clarity is seen as quaint or confining to those with power. The very traits Erskine saw in Rogers--the why he was right for the Super Soldier program and how he would act and react in the world is exactly what Rogers saw in Wilson. Among the ocean liner's worth of MCU characters, those traits are incredibly rare, to the point where one would be hard-pressed to find another character as naturally noble and fit to uphold the duty & values the role represents other than Wilson.

    Incorrect. Sam's line has key historic and global meanings (from his perspective as a black man) relevant to the story; he was redirecting the senator's government assembly line "you don't understand" response to make him see (if possible) the embodiment of those people (black people the world over) who have been and are still displaced, under-represented (or ignored), being denied that which is afforded to everyone else, forced or manipulated out of property, access to resources, and so much more. Sam--more than that senator--has lived (and carried as a dark heritage) the kind of abuses that led more emotional minds to go the Flag Smasher route.
    That last part was his personal contrast--that in the face of the "stars and stripes" (with its endless abuses standing on the polar opposite of what its supposed to represent), he was asserting his aforementioned dark heritage and life to say he--as a representative of a nation that has spent centuries physically, legally and psychologically subjugating his people--understands the Flag Smasher's motives. The only difference is that Wilson--as a descendant of a people who played a monumental role in making America the power that it is (more than American media, political entities and academia will ever admit) is "trying something different," (as said to Karli), but warned that the potential for the GRC to inspire more Flag Smashers was great, due to the GRC's actions.

    There's no way anyone fully knowledgeable about the history of black people in relation to government abuse, manipulation and/or indifference (like the one posting this) would not instantly understand and support Sam's perspective, because its a reflection of reality.

    Then you are in for more pain, as he is currently writing Captain America 4, all due his work on The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, which was one of the best and most engaging MCU productions.
     
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  10. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    Which hill is that? The Facts Hill? Rationality Hill? Being evidence based?
     
  11. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    What are my political views?

    Not that I accept the premise that you have to have a certain kind of politics to like Star Trek. In this particular case, I would expect any person of any ideology to be able to say that a small riot of a few hundred unarmed people who didnt intentionally kill a single person is not remotely comparable to "the naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan" attacking the United States. I think the comparison is ludicrous. Any one should see that.

    QAnon shaman with a spear, posing for selfies while he does Bronze Age cosplay is like Hideki Tojo?!? That absolutely cannot be regarded as a serious position. No matter if you are Far Right, Far Left or anything in between.
     
  12. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's true it cannot be compared. Japan never managed to breach any American government buildings.
     
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  13. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    1. He was already Falcon. He already was a hero. Being Captain America is NOT a "promotion" and it should have been presented that way. "Former White Character" should not be presented as a "step up". They can just make Falcon shows and movies. Black Panther is bigger now than he ever was in the comics. Let BP be BP and Falcon be Falcon and Luke Cage be Luke Cage. None of them need the shield to be the heroes they already are.

    2. I don't know what evidence there is that he is any more noble or heroic than other heroes. He isn't less of one either. But let him be Falcon.

    3. "Sams line" is absurd. He is not and never has been oppressed. There is nothing "fraught" about about him wearing red, white and blue. Sam does NOT understand. He is not in charge of anything. He doesn't have to plan and coordinate for the daily needs of 3.5 billion people who suddenly blipped home. Let alone how to deal with massive 3rd World govt corruption, debt, or conflict between religious, ethnic, linguistic groups, all while trying to build up first world infrastructure. This is a very hard, multi generational task that Sam knows absolutely nothing about.

    He is in no position to give his silly, simplistic lectures to people who know the problems alot better than he does. He is not an oppressed person, and has no life remotely comparable to the billions under discussion. There is nothing "understandable" or compelling about this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  14. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    Pearl Harbor naval base was "government buildings" and ships and they bombed them. Killing thousands. They would have landed infantry to seize if they could, and as they did with all other US possessions in their reach. And they didnt bring pointy sticks and wear animal skins. They were heavily armed and killed an immense number of people.

    Like I said, a ludicrous comparison.
     
  15. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They actually killed quite a few american soldiers with pointy sticks once their bullets ran out... Heh.
     
  16. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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  17. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    They did have bayonets. Unlike Buffalo Hat Guy, who didnt stab anyone with his cosplay spear, they shot, bombed, shelled, and bayonetted as many as they could. And tragically it was a gigantic number.
     
  18. Booji

    Booji Commodore Premium Member

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    Keep digging
     
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  19. Tarek71

    Tarek71 Commodore Commodore

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    Guns, Booji. Ever try to overthrow a government and forget your gun? A small number did have things like OC spray or batons. We all know that. We do have some veteran clashers here. Antifa and Proud Boys have both brought a lot of non firearm weapons and beat the shit out of each other. It's a riot and even a small riot is a riot. And therefore violent. But a riot is all this was.

    And remember, when it was the far more widespread, more numerous, more sustained and far more damaging BLM/Antifa riots we are told this is still "mostly peaceful" if a numerical majority of those who attended a protest did not riot. That is what happened here. But the "mostly peaceful" rule was forgotten in this case.
     
  20. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Funny how the first pic you show is off an insurrectionist holding a police riot shield. Many of which were obtained by physically assaulting, maiming, and using chemical sprays to incapacitate and then take their items.

    You are right this was not Japan. It was American citizens hoping they could influence Congress/Pence to violate the Constitution. Some of whom never got a chance for physical violence or death against elected Democrat officials because they never encountered them.

    not every traitorous action at the start of the Civil War involved murder. Some were bloodless seizures of American property by traitors. Some successful, some not.

    the statement there was no guns is likely false. There have been as of a few weeks 4 people charged with having guns on Capitol grounds. There was likely more yet to have been caught on camera with a gun.

    the statement about being unarmed is very much false. Armed/unarmed does also not only apply to guns. It means weapons and there were very visible use of weapons.

    I think possibly more of an attack on the Constitution than even this is the ongoing attempts by many Republican Congressmen and Senators who swore an oath to the Constitution and are now excusing, downplayi ng, or lying about it.

    when you have a Congressman who was helping to BARRICADE the FLOOR of the House chamber now saying "nothing really bad happened. It was just like tourists"

    when you have the leader of the house Republicans refuse to meet with wounde d police officers(of which there were over 150 wounded.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
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