Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Turtletrekker, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wouldn’t say Walker is a dick. Seemed like a nice guy to me
     
  2. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's really not a mask at all. You can see most of his face straight through the goggles. Stark's sunglasses would've been a more effective disguise.

    As for the helmet it is a truly amusing thought that the one captain America who doesn't wear a helmet is the one who arguably has the most need for one. But it really doesn't matter. If he could be Falcon and not wear a helmet he can be cap and not wear a helmet. For that matter, even Steve Rogers was vulnerable to a bullet in the head but still usually didn't wear his helmet, either.
     
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  3. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The goggles are to protect his eyes from flys when flying. Secret identities isn’t really a thing in the MCU. Everyone knows who every hero is. Even Spidey now.
     
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  4. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Sam proved that it wasn't the shield or the uniform that makes a man Captain America, but rather it's the actions and the convictions of that man, from his version of "I can do this all day" to his hero monologue to the abbreviated GRC and the rest of the world.

    I honestly didn't expect it to happen but I'm glad we got to see Isaiah Bradley (and Eli, too) one more time and he finally got the public recognition he deserved, even if it was only a statue and vague outline of his history in a corner of the Captain America exhibit (yes, I paused the episode to read it). I like to think there was a larger release and description of his history to the greater public and this moment was just symbolism of his recognition, but on the surface, it does feel a bit basic. Plus, I have this nagging thought in the back of my head about how Sam was able to get clearance so quickly to release Isaiah's story, get a statue made, and get the exhibit extension authorized, but I know I'm overthinking the moment. To be clear, I'm not trying to put down the moment, I think it was a powerful conclusion to Isaiah's three-part story in this season. I just hope that this isn't the end of his story and we'll see more of it through Eli.

    I wasn't sure what the finale was going to do with John Walker, whether or not he would go further down the dark hole he was digging himself into (and how that would happen), but I was relieved that he made the right choice in saving the armored van instead of further pursuing his vengeance against Karli. That said, I'm still not sure where his larger path is heading even if we did get the US Agent reveal (I honestly didn't think we would see that uniform and moniker this season) but clearly his connection with Val gives us a relative idea of that direction. Speaking of that reveal, I found it a little awkward that Walker tried out the uniform in the same room where he was stripped of Captain America and it felt like the scene was filmed on the same day as his initial meeting with Val because of Julia Louis-Dreyfus' busy schedule.

    I'm also not sure about the Power Broker reveal even if we knew it was coming a mile away (and I more or less already accepted it as seen from my posts yesterday). I don't have any long-term loyalty to Sharon's characterization since I've only ever known her from the movies (and I didn't even know she existed in any form until The Winter Soldier). I figured she was going to continue her Power Broker operations after getting her pardon, but at this point, I can't help wondering what's her motivation at this point? I get she was angry and bitter how she was left out in the cold after her act of patriotism for Steve's sake, but did she really develop such a strong taste for Madripoor 's underground that she couldn't let it go? I think the problem is we didn't see Sharon grow into that role and were simply (and very briefly) told what had happened and that really takes the wind out of that characterization (thus breaking the Show Don't Tell rule). I'm guessing she'll ultimately become the main villain in the potential second season and I can only hope we get to see some flashbacks that help us better understand more directly what lead Sharon down that dark path, instead of just accepting the brief spoken explanation.

    Not surprised that Zemo continues to have influence from beyond the Raft, but I actually had hoped that those remaining Flag Smashers stayed alive to see how Karli's goals influenced Sam to give them the broad result they were seeking (not unlike Killmonger and Black Panther). For that matter, I wish Karli hadn't died for that exact same reason and I would have liked to see her character further developed (Killmonger, too). That feels like a missed opportunity. I imagine we haven't seen the last of the Flag Smashers (as evidenced by the one GRC guard at the end) but, at this point, all new characters would be inhabiting it at and that won't be the same as continuing the character arc of the original members.

    A funny aside: I love how Batroc was able to intercept and stop Sam's shield simply by kicking a chair into its path. Why hasn't any villain thought of that before? :lol:

    One disappointment: I thought we were going to see the newly restored Paul and Darlene during that final montage (especially when Sam and Bucky were collectively looking out in the distance in that last shot) and I'm sad we didn't get to see it.
     
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  5. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    That was very cool indeed.

    But.

    Why is Bucky still the Winter Soldier? The whole point of Bucky's character this season was to demonstrate how he has grown and moved forward from the demons of his past. Surely he should have a new name, too, right?

    Yeah, I was also disappointed by the brevity of that scene and I really wish the show had taken a little more time to face the painful situation of Bucky coming clean to Yori.

    That's an excellent look of his situation and that helps me get a better grasp of what the show was going for.

    YES. I loved that part of his speech. Sam's not trying to sympathize or normalize the terrorists, but he is trying to understand their actions and how to prevent that from happening again. That's something that needs to happen in the real world instead of the endless cycle of reactionary violence.
     
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  6. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    That scene in the captain America exhibit was touching
     
  7. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He's not there yet, but he's on the right path. Maybe Season 3 will be 'Captain America and the White Wolf'.
     
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  8. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the comics does Bucky keep the name winter solider?
     
  9. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. He was the Winter Soldier, then Captain America, dead, and then back to Winter Soldier
     
  10. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
    Episode 6: "One World, One People" - SEASON 1 FINALE

    Sam/Captain America: I loved the quick, on-the-move introduction of Sam as Captain America--no over-the-top fanfare, including his identifying himself to one of the hostages. (SEE NOTES). One had to expect that Sam would need to "prove" himself in his debut performance as Cap, which the showrunners perfectly set up to get views to question (in the fight with Batroc) if he was up to the job, until...he instantly turned the tables on Batroc, showing how skilled he's become with the shield. Being a strategist came into service as he planned to have one of the helicopter hostages with flight training (Ayla Perez, formerly of the Philippine Air Force) to take over...after he's eliminated Diego, the Flag Smasher..

    Moment by moment, the pubic is getting to know the true new Captain America, as he's cheered on after the rescue of the NYPD pilot.

    Sam's line: "Boy, you've just earned this ass-whoopin'!"--after Diego sent Sam into the concrete conduits / into the water was great--not so much humor as it was a promise we looked forward to seeing. His blindingly swift removal of Diego and Perez's taking control of the helicopter was an amazing sight.

    ...just as the it was great seeing the smile on Bucky's face as Sam rescued the hostages in the van, along with an onlooker correcting the elderly man by recognizing him as Captain America (SEE NOTES).

    Karli's "You--of all people--bought into that bullshit?!?", countered by Cap's "I'm trying something different. Maybe you should do the same!" simply did not register. Her version of "one world" is as devastatingly myopic a concept. His view (SEE NOTES) is from a place of suffering couched in a moral, common sense code of justice...

    Sam returns to Bradley's house, with Bradley saying, "He ain't a Falcon anymore...but he's still black."
    "I seen what you did out there...and it seems so did everyone else. I heard the GRC are standing down on all those plans of theirs, so you must have done something right. i'm not gonna lie--you're special."
    Sam: "Thank you."
    Bradley: "I mean, you're not a Malcolm or Martin or Mandela--"
    Sam (laughing): "No argument, there--but I know what I've gotta do."
    Bradley: "So...the black Captain America, huh?"
    Sam (proudly): "Damn right."
    Bradley: "The fight you takin' on, ain't gonna be easy, Sam."
    Sam: "Yeah, i might fail. Shit, I might die. But.. we BUILT this country, Bled for it. I'm not going to let anybody tell me I can't fight for it. Not after what everybody before me went through. Including you."
    Bradley (humorously): "Shit--I almost bought that!"
    Sam: "Man, do you ever lighten up?"
    Bradley: "Nope!"
    Sam: "Why don't you clean up...there's something I want to show you."

    At the Captain America display, Sam, Bradley and his grandson walk by, taking in that hisroy...then Bradley is stopped cold by a bronze statue of himself, with a full revelation of his being the 1st black super soldier, along with a wall of dedication to his--and other black soldier's service.

    Sam: "Now, they will never forget you. Never."

    Bradley and Sam hug--Bradley feeling--at long last--that he's not buried onder the ever-crushing boot of history designed to recognize white achievement, but turn that of black people to a dust worse thananything Thanos could conure with a snap.

    Bucky/Winter Soldier:
    The following exchange--
    Karli: "Aren't you tired of fighting for the wrong side, mister Barnes?"
    Bucky: "Hmph. I've done this before, kid. I know how it ends."
    Karli: "It doesn't matter if I don't survive. I'm fighting for something bigger than myself. I mean for all of the bodies you've collected, have you been able to say the same?"
    Bucky: "You don't think I've fought for anything bigger than myself? That's all I've ever tried to do...and I failed twice.You think your cause justifies all this death, but in the end, the nightmares won't go away. You're going to remember all the lives you've killed. Trust me. Don't do this. Don't go down this path."
    Karli: "If that's how you feel, you should sit this one out."
    Bucky: "You know I ain't gonna do that."

    Karli's call was clear distraction, but the conversation proves she is a terroist through and through, and even Bucky--who initially thought there as no reasoning with her (echoed by Zemo), tried to "do the work" (as Sam described it) and try to help Karli with this last bit of cold honesty about what being a killer means--no matter the cause, but as it was evident all along, murder mixed with fractured ideology do not walk with reason.

    Bucky begins to get a sample of what it means to help people in a different way with a simple, heartfelt "thank you" from one of the hostages he rescued. The expression on Bucky's face was one of honest surprise.

    Although Bucky witnessed Walker attempting to save the hostages, it took a non-super soldier to get the job done...and Karli--who tied to hurl a steel rod through Bucky's head--was quite startled by how he anticipated the attack, catching the rod as if it was no threat at all.


    Sharon Carter: Geeze. The Mercury vapor ("amongst other things") attack she used on the Flag Smasher..she's quite ruthless.

    ...yes, you could not miss her suspicious behavior as she watched Batroc shoot the smoke bombs...then, there was the face off with Karli:

    Karli: "I'm disappointed in you."
    Sharon: "That's what I was going to say. You know, when you came to Madripoor, you reminded me of a young me. We took you in, gave you an opportunity, Then you betray me."
    Karli: "Because you wanted to control a world that had hurt you. But I wanted to change it. I'm not interested in power, or an empire. I have bigger--"
    Sharon: "What, like this? Come back and work for me again--all of you! We can make a difference together."
    Karli: "You just want me because you need your muscle back. Without super soldiers, how much power does a 'Power Broker' really have?"
    Sharon: "More than you."
    Batroc (to Sharon): "So you're the power broker?"
    Karli: "You hired Batroc to spy on me..."
    Sharon: Karli, you know i'm always prepared. "
    Karli: "Get out of my way!"
    Batroc: "I'm done with these games! Now Power Broker, you will pay me four times what you said you would. Four times! ..or i'll tell the whole world who you are. Okay?"
    Sharon: "I don't do blackmail."

    Sharon shoots Batroc, killing him, but Karli shoots Sharon. Sam arrives, still trying to reason with Karli, but the terrorist tries to kill Sharon, only for Sam to intervene. Sam refuses to back down from trying to reach her, triggering her rage, screaming at him to fight back--but he will not. Karli takes aim at Sam, but is shot dead by Sharon. If there's a tragedy to this scene, its that Sam wanted to sell his way of addressing the world's current problem, but his peaceful ways were always blunted by unrelenting violence throughout this season (from the Flag Smashers and Walker).

    Yes, with Karli--and Batroc dead, Sharon keeps her secret, and is spirited away with Bucky's aid. Sam tells her he will honor his promise to obtain her pardon (SEE NOTES).

    John Walker: Karli's response, "I didn't mean to kill your friend. I don't want to hurt people that don't matter" about Lemar...where did she think that excuse was going?
    Walker: "You don't think Lemar's life mattered?"
    Karli: "Not to my fight. I just want the people on that truck--"

    Eerie moment as Walker--being stomped on by Karli and Friends--is triggered by a glance at one of his medals (attached to the shield) fueling his rage...

    Well, everyone knew Walker's glorified cosplayer shield did not have the properties of the genuine article. How he did not know that spoke to his blinders-on, lust for murderous revenge..and general stupidity.

    As Walker--with Bucky--confronted the other Flag Smashers, he issues a part of a statement once said by Abraham Lincoln (though Walker's sinister smile): "...mercy bears richer fruit than strict justice" just as the police surround and arrest the Flag Smashers. Apparently, Bucky managed to prevent him from digging another grave for himself. Even Sam and Bucky nods in acknowledgement of his help.

    ...but...

    Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (after openly telling Olivia that's it was fortuitous that Zemo (not named) killed off the other Flag Smashers. She promises Walker--finally becoming the U.S.Agent--that things might get weird. He joyously says he's "back" celebrating Olivia...but he still has that head twitch, brought on by the serum....

    The Flag-Smashers / Karli Morgenthau: Karli , ever the violent ideologue, shocked her own fellow Flag Smashers with--
    Karli: "Worst case scenario, we kill all the hostages."
    FS1: "We're supposed to use them to negotiate--"
    Karli: "To stop that vote! Either way, our message gets out to the world. It doesn't even matter if we die, the movement is strong enough to continue without us."
    Note the expressions on the faces of some of her companions; one might say they did not sign up to die, but someone would be able to shoot back with a history-weighted reminder that terrorists (especially the foot soldiers) rarely walk away to see some future.

    Karli's "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" is--as one might suspect--not at all inspiring to some of the Flag Smashers, and as we witnessed, she had to push them to repeat the "one world, one people" slogan.

    As the remaining Flag Smashers were transported in a van, one of the attending soldiers repeated the "one world, one people" slogan...moment later the van explodes--thanks to Zemo's assistant, who was watching from a distance. So, while there might be more regular supporters of the FS, Zemo was not going to allow any super soldiers to live, as he--in his cell at the RAFT--had the look of pure satisfaction on his face, while listening to news about the bombing.

    Batroc: "The robes don't make the monk"--Batroc's insult that Sam's costume does not make him a real Captain America. At that moment, I expected Sam to be placed in the position of proving why he's the man for the job (beyond Steve Rogers' belief in him)

    NOTES:
    The message and impact -

    Sam's debate with the GRC senator began as the equivalent of a circular firing squad; while Sam argued that "peacekeeping troops" will appear to be terrorists to those they are meant to "help," what is the answer when billions return to existence, and find their entire lives--homes, jobs, basic survival needs--all wiped away because those who did not vanish have now migrated to their countries/homes, etc.?

    Sam continues, telling the GRC member(s) that they now know what it was like to feel completely helpless (as hostages) and that their actions (by force) will have the same impact as Thanos' snap on half of earth's population.the senator repeats his "you just don't understand" line, to which Sam replies--

    "I'm a black man carrying the stars and stripes! What don't I understand?!? (note Bucky eyeing Walker eyeing Sam). Everytime I pick this thing up, there are millions of people out there who are going to hate me for it. Even now--here, I feel it. The stares. The judgement, And there's nothing I can do to change it! (Isaiah Bradley watches this on TV, slowly impressed with what he's seeing). Yet I'm still here. No super serum, no blonde hair or blue eyes. The only power I have is that I believe we can do better. We can't demand that people step up, if we don't meet them halfway!"

    Sam continues--

    "You control the banks! Shit--you can move boards. You can knock down a forest with an email, you can feed a million people with a phone call (Joaquin Torres also watches, his inspired wheels turning / Sarah could not be more proud of her brother). But the question is--who's in the room with you when you're making those decisions. Hmm? is it the people you're going to impact? Or is it just more people like you?
    I mean, this girl died trying to stop you, and no one has stopped for one second to ask why. "


    "You've got to do better, senator! You've gotta step up, because if you don't, the next Karli will. And you don't want to see 2.0. People believed in her cause so much, that they helped her defy the strongest governments in the world. Why do you think that is? Look, you people have just as much power as an insane 'god,' or a misguided teenager. The question you have to ask yourself is, 'how are you going to use it?'"

    There's several ways to analyze Sam's statements, but I know it will divide the MC/TVU fanbase. Make no mistake: Sam's comments to the senator were going far beyond the GRC /Flag Smasher plot--behind it all, he's also making a direct statement about his own awareness of the plight of black people long after slavery--from Redlining, sterilization programs, deliberate, terrorism from white competition to destroy black-owned banks, schools, publishers, to gentrification--which still goes on today. Most watching this are just getting a hint of a primer about the gargantuan, tormenting efforts that have been undertaken to suppress black achievement on every conceivable level here and abroad. But as Sam promised, he (like real world black people) will never stop fighting for justice, which also (in the Bradley case) means letting the world know the damned truth.

    Ah, but there was one, rare moment of levity, as Bucky said he was busy texting, and heard nothing after "..black guy and stars and stripes," then, the final confirmation of Sam as Cap, was Bucky referring to him as Cap.

    Sam returns to Bradley's house, with Bradley saying (to his grandson), "He ain't a Falcon anymore...but he's still black."
    "I seen what you did out there...and it seems so did everyone else. I heard the GRC are standing down on all those plans of theirs, so you must have done something right. I'm not gonna lie--you're special."

    Sam: "Thank you."
    Bradley (joking): "I mean, you're not a Malcolm or Martin or Mandela--"
    Sam (laughing): "No argument, there--but I know what I've gotta do."
    Bradley: "So...the black Captain America, huh?"
    Sam (proudly): "Damn right."
    Bradley: "The fight you takin' on, ain't gonna be easy, Sam."
    Sam: "Yeah, i might fail. Shit, I might die. But.. we BUILT this country, Bled for it. I'm not going to let anybody tell me I can't fight for it. Not after what everybody before me went through. Including you."
    Bradley (humorously): "Shit--I almost bought that!"
    Sam: "Man, do you ever lighten up?"
    Bradley: "Nope!"
    Sam: "Why don't you clean up...there's something I want to show you."

    At the Captain America display, Sam, Bradley and his grandson walk by, taking in that history...then Bradley is stopped cold by a bronze statue of himself, with a full revelation of his being the 1st black super soldier, along with a wall of dedication to his--and other black soldier's service.

    Sam: "Now, they will never forget you. Never."

    There's no effective way to explain how powerful and gratifying that scene was for black American viewers who have been their own Isaiah Bradleys throughout history, in one way or another.

    Bradley and Sam hug--Bradley feeling--at long last--that he's not buried under the ever-crushing boot of American (and frankly, world) history designed to recognize white achievement, but turn that of black people to scattered dust worse than anything Thanos could conjure with a snap.

    Without question, it was the most grounded, real world dialogue ever heard in this franchise (along with Bradley's), so much so, that Marvel needs to consider how this kind of series (like 2 1/2 of the three Cap movies) are almost operating in their own universe, apart from the space/alien/magic-heavy end of the franchise. You cannot have characters with this kind of real world, racially aware identity as their psychological/moral compass punching it out with the next alien/magical Big Bad. Its rarely worked in the decades' worth of Marvel comics I've read since the publisher's Silver Age began, and it would be more glaring here, thanks to the general handling of the Cap end of the franchise.

    At the end of it all, Sam Wilson proved--through the essence of who he's always been--why Steve wanted him to have the shield. No slight to Bucky, but only Sam could--and is now the next Captain America.

    Bucky's personal torment continued as he revealed the truth about murdering Yori Nakajima's son. Losing a genuine friend (not to mention a potential romantic interest in Leah) due to his own bloody history cannot be an easy thing to swallow, but he did do the right thing. Whether or not he will ever be forgiven is not going to be answered in this season.

    Finally, the entire scene back in Louisiana was cathartic, as the celebration of Sarah's future secured, the neighbors' pride in Sam, and the ever-deepening bond between Sam and Bucky closing out the episode.

    Wonderful.

    Post credits: true to his word, Sam gets Sharon her pardon...and unbeknownst to anyone--has now placed the Power Broker back in a position of power in the U.S. intelligence community...and she's already promising potential buyers access to all kinds of government secrets. How will Sam & Bucky react to this, and what kind of damage will Sharon cause? Al, of that makes me look forward to Captain America and the Winter Soldier's second season.

    GRADE: A for what was--undeniably--the best Marvel production since Captain America - The Winter Soldier. This SO reminds me of the grit (a lot of it sociopolitical in nature) mixed with some fantastic elements seen so often in late 60s / early 70s Captain America comics, and that is a great thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  11. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That was the point of Sharon's sub-plot: her schemes going forward, but there had to be a way to logically bring her back into this franchise. At first, I was not fond of her being a villain, but her life's choices / embracing corruption is the kind of character growth she would not have enjoyed if she was still the same woman from Civil War.
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Bradley: "I mean, you're not a Malcolm or Martin or Mandela--"
    Sam (laughing): "No argument, there--but I know what I've gotta do."

    I found that a bit amusing, since Mackie DID play MLK in "All the Way".
     
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  13. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    I found some the actiony-elements/conclusion to actiony-storylines to be rather underwhelming. The real star (and intentional) was seeing Sam become Captain America and how he kept the wings and utilized them and the shield together. The Flag Smashers 'plans' never really made a whole lot of sense. Ok, you kidnap all these powerful people to postpone a vote. You going to keep them locked up for 10/20/30 years? At some point the powers will just say F--- it and vote anyway (if not immediately).

    The evolution of Sam and Sam conveying a deeper understanding of 'his' America to the viewers (some of whom don't want to hear it) was probably the most important thing and best done thing in this show. Bucky being able to move-on and evolve was also a very big thing. Just the expression of Bucky at the start, versus the ending shows his evolution. Even when he visited Sam at his home the first time and was more relaxed, he was still guarded and haunted. The final scene Bucky is a lot closer to the Bucky we saw with Steve in Captain America: First Avenger.

    He managed to finally come to terms with who he was forced to be and reclaim who he was before it and move forward.
     
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  14. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Can we address the by-stander's throw away line of "I thought he was on the moon?" He's obviously referencing Steve Rogers' Captain America, yes? Did I miss something?
     
  15. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it's a conspiracy theory. Elvis is still alive, that sort of thing.
     
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  16. The Nth Doctor

    The Nth Doctor Infinite Possibilities... Premium Member

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    Maybe so. But considering the parallel themes about legacies in season one and even though the show tried to move past Bucky's dark history a little too quickly and a little too easily, it still would have been fitting to go with Captain American and the White Wolf now. But you're right that he does need to do more work and hopefully that will continue in a potential season two.

    It was a callback to what Torres said in the first episode.
     
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And I appreciated that they did try to even make that jackass Senator a bit more human than we'd expect, when he pointed out the legitimate economic and logistical issues with how to deal with the Restoration of the people who came back as opposed to those who survived the 5 years.

    Really, even though we imagined the Power Broker to be the only truly malevolent character in this....the reveal of who the Broker was even gave THAT character depth.

    How many shows can deal with the Geopolitical, Moral and Social issues this series did and say that they at least tried to make every major player a 3-Dimensional character?
     
  18. wayoung

    wayoung Commodore Commodore

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    I wish they'd given Sam super soldier serum before the fight.

    I understand thematically why they didn't but c'mon, his body should have been jellified. Even factoring in vibraniums virtual magic abilities to absorb and disperse energy, his suit isn't vibranium, like Black Panthers (who also had a different kind of super soldier serum). He should have been mush.
     
  19. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All true--the Flag Smasher's plans--as opposed to what Sam argued to the senators--never made sense for the reasons you list, and for the unavoidable fact that historically, any movement using terror and attempted murder (like trying to send a van full of hostages careening to their deaths) usually inspires a response militarizing the opposition to the point where there will only be the fist of governments, rather than real dialogue/action, which is what the FS claimed they wanted.

    Absolutely true. Not only have I heard many diehard Marvel fans express bitter complaints (and worse) about this series black characters talking about the history and current state of black America (or experiencing it, as seen in the police questioning Sam scene), but some are among the same who love the CW's "Arrowverse" but despise Black Lightning for many of the same reasons. They have no problem with extraterrestrials, robots and their problems, but a black person? Oh, no, that's too much..."who wants to see that in Marvel?" as they say.

    The truth of Sam's dialogue with Bradley will undoubtedly cause some social media and real world anger.


    :bolian:

    He is not quite free from the torment of being the Winter Soldier, but he is so much closer to being the Bucky last seen in The First Avenger.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  20. Grendelsbayne

    Grendelsbayne Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The new suit came from Wakanda, so it totally could be at least partly vibranium.
    ETA: Thinking about how they were used I think the wings at least were definitely supposed to be some form of it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021