Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion

[The Nth Doctor]

So, what was the significance of Zemo's mask anyway? In the end, it just feels like a gratuitous moment of comic accurate fanservice that had no relevance to the story.

Yeah, I was disappointed by that, too. It looked pretty cool and yet Zemo only wore it very briefly at a point when he didn't need to wear it. The way he reached for it in the car, it seemed like it had some kind weighty significance and yet...nothing.

I'm all for bringing in comic book imagery but it has to make some kind of in-universe sense.

 

[Guy Gardener]

So, what was the significance of Zemo's mask anyway? In the end, it just feels like a gratuitous moment of comic accurate fanservice that had no relevance to the story.

Hemlut's dad fought with "adhesive-X"

He needed the mask to avoid respiratory problems.

Practical safety issues, if you're spraying tons of aerosolized super glue at entire armies.

Then he glued the mask to his face by accident.

Cap may have been blamed for that.

 

[Tuskin38]

There's been publicity art aimed at toy store chain's buyers with imagery alleged to be Sam's new uniform.

There was a toy image leaked back in January

 

[Saul]

So, what was the significance of Zemo's mask anyway? In the end, it just feels like a gratuitous moment of comic accurate fanservice that had no relevance to the story.

Felt more like fan service than anything else. Marvel seems to be leaning more and more towards comic accurate these days.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Just had a thought. When did Steve and Bucky talk about giving Sam the shield? The shield was destroyed when Steve left so is it possible old man Steve came back a day or two earlier and talked to Bucky before Young Steve left?

I think it's possible, and wouldn't really change anything regarding the various time-travel theories we bat about. I think Steve would have, not because he needed an opinion, but because Bucky was kind of the most logical choice and given their history and friendship he deserved a heads up.

So, what was the significance of Zemo's mask anyway? In the end, it just feels like a gratuitous moment of comic accurate fanservice that had no relevance to the story.

And the world needs more of that!

 

[Turtletrekker]

"Captain America and the Winter Soldier".

Even the subtitles called him Captain America. Nice.

 

[Xerxes82]

A lot of the finale was really well done. I LOVE Sam's suit. Walker got to get a little redemption. Zemo remains a nefarious bastard even in prison. Bucky does the work, though sadly we don't get to see the reaction.

Lumbly's Isaiah Bradley is absolutely fantastic, and every time he's onscreen I am riveted. Great stuff there.

My only real disappointment is that they went the lazy way with Sharon and actually had her be the PB after all. What a waste of a great character. Don't get me wrong, Emily VanCamp makes a delicious villain. But seeing Sharon get so utterly shit on really takes a lot of the wind out of this series for me. Oh well, I would have genuinely preferred just killing her off unceremoniously to this, but I'll get over it.

I'd give it a 4 out of 5 overall if not for the Sharon plotline, which knocks it down to a 3. But hey, they even changed the title card at the end. Captain America and the Winter Soldier it is, at last.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Well that was a strong finale overall. I really liked pretty much everything with Sam and Bucky (and also Isaiah). And it did a really good job wrapping up the story overall.

I'm more conflicted about the whole Walker and Power broker angles. Walker getting a wake-up call is fine, it's an interesting hint toward where exactly they want the character to be going but... if he was going to turn around so easily, why have him tilting so hard on the *I* am Captain America angle last episode. That whole aspect now really feels like it just sort of went nowhere. Plus, that final scene as US Agent is just so completely tone deaf relative to everything he's just done in this story that it really just feels confusing. Has he actually admitted to himself how wrong he was, or he is just clinging to that one small part of himself that isn't entirely self-centered enough to let those people die? Is he actually turning himself around or just telling himself he is?

And the whole Power Broker thing ultimately just didn't really seem to matter at all. I mean I can see where Sharon's coming from, but if literally no one but the audience is even going to find out what she's doing I don't really see the point of including this story here at all. Maybe it's setup for season 2, since Marvel apparently is thinking about this show having multiple seasons.

 

[Jayson1]

I liked. I think most will agree this show needed at least 8 to 10 episodes because lots of things seemed rushed. Or they should have just left Sharon and Zemo out of the show because I don't know they mattered much. In fact lots of their screen time should have went to Bucky doing therapy which was dropped after episode 2. Also when they do a Isiah Bradley show they need to not just show him when he is young. In fact he might be worth doing a miniseries about that spans his life as a teen to Captain America to lab rat to prison to life as old man and having his nephew around who I understand also becomes a hero in the comics

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Well that was a strong finale overall. I really liked pretty much everything with Sam and Bucky (and also Isaiah). And it did a really good job wrapping up the story overall.

Completely agree. Watching Isaiah watching Sam's speech was fantastic. They did such a great job with Isaiah's story, I hope this isn't the last we see of him.

... if he (Walker) was going to turn around so easily, why have him tilting so hard on the *I* am Captain America angle last episode. That whole aspect now really feels like it just sort of went nowhere. Plus, that final scene as US Agent is just so completely tone deaf relative to everything he's just done in this story that it really just feels confusing. Has he actually admitted to himself how wrong he was, or he is just clinging to that one small part of himself that isn't entirely self-centered enough to let those people die? Is he actually turning himself around or just telling himself he is?

The way I see it, Walker needs someone to tell him how great and important he his. At the hearing for his not-so-honorable discharge, he was facing the opposite, a roomful of powerful people who were telling him he's not so great after all. The "I am Captain America!" response was just a childish denial of what was happening. Then the Contessa shows up and becomes his pillar of support. He's important again and he finds some equilibrium.

... the whole Power Broker thing ultimately just didn't really seem to matter at all. I mean I can see where Sharon's coming from, but if literally no one but the audience is even going to find out what she's doing I don't really see the point of including this story here at all. Maybe it's setup for season 2, since Marvel apparently is thinking about this show having multiple seasons.

Agree again. It makes sense if there are future seasons, and they sure seemed to set Sharon up with an arc. I loved how the Senator spoke about her family and called her "Agent Carter." I hope what they do with her is not just the obvious villain angle we seem to have been handed.
Overall, I give the series a strong 8.5. The Netflix DD, aka JJ, and Luke Cage are still my favorites for their characterizations, mood and tone. Falcon/Captain America and the Winter Soldier captured the tone of the MCU, which is fine but it's starting to feel mainstream. That said, they they certainly explored some provocative political views.
Oh, and I'm not in love with Sam's head gear. He doesn't need a mask, his identity is known. He does need a helmet for goodness sake.

 

[Saul]

Powerful final episode considering the past week.
I'm not a fan of what they did to Sharon also, she wants to rule the world now? They were hinting that she might be the power broker in other episodes but in a way that felt like it was too obvious and they had a better idea in mind, but actually they didn't. Walker isn't crazy anymore. The character is interesting but the sudden switch from good to bad to good again just feels like a really condensed character arc that could have been explored over a longer period. Just feels a lot of the things here could be played out over a few seasons if that's the route they are going, which seems to be the case with the way they left things.

As for the series, it's hit and miss for me. It's no Wanda Vision. But I like how Sam's character has grow. I thought Walker was interesting but they kinda dropped the ball on him. I'd rather the show be more like a movie and focus on fewer plots rather than spinning off various threads with Zemo, Flag Smashers, Sharon, Walker, VanCamp etc

 

[Reverend]

OK, Sharon is now officially the worst villain in the MCU. Yes including Thanos. The giant purple nutter may have murdered trillions, but at least he wasn't a disgrace to the name 'Carter'!

And am I crazy, or did Walker get off WAY too easy? I mean sure, he's a stooge of Madame (probably) Not-Hydra and that will not end well for him, but I think they missed a beat in his arc there going from borderline crazed to magnanimous.

Captain America sounded like Captain America should. Look forward to more of that.

 

[FPAlpha]

That's a season finale!

From the start it's action non stop as expected and some great elements there but when that's over with we get to the real meat of the finale and it really delivers ( even if i felt Sam's adhoc speech came off as a little gratuitious and preachy). Some storylines got resolved like Bucky and he is now forever free of the Winter Soldier and is able to move on, Walker makes an important decision to honor the uniform instead of having his revenge and we got a new albeit expected villain.

On to details:

Sam's speech hit to the core of what i always believed was the major fault of any superpower, especially the US and especially after 9/11 - no one asked why the terrorists did it. It's too easy to just label them as evil and be done with it but people are not born evil. Very few people and especially those who have the power to do something about it ask how and why did it happen. They don't examine the chain of events, don't analyze how someone can radicalize because that is much harder to find a solution for than to just use your huge stick to play worldwide whack-a-mole. This doesn't need to be limited to actual terrorists but it also applies to other problems such as police racism - when did it actually start, how did it solidify and what keeps it up?

This to me is probably one of the central points of the entire show.

Isiah Bradley is so awesome on the show - i just love the character and when Sam took him to the Captain America exhibition i instantly knew why and i honest to god choked up and was near actual tears. That was so right to do and personally important for Isiah to get some small inner peace back and maybe heal a little. I love how he's become a mentor to Sam, living proof of the immense cruelty people are capable of and providing the main reason for Sam to take up the shield and face this. It was also very good for Sam to explicitly mention that he knows he won't be everybodies Captain America in front of a worldwide audience.

Maybe i'll be in the minority here but i really don't like the design of Sam's new uniform. I got used to Cap's spangly uniform but still think the subdued uniform he had in Winter Soldier was the best looking. However it was so cool to see see Sam developing his own hybrid fighting style, using the Falcon tech to boost his shield combat ( though i still can't figure out how any of them, Iron Man or Falcon, are able to exert such fine control in split seconds over such complicated gadgets - must be one hell of a brain/machine interface in there).

I also really liked how Walker developed in this episode - he's still full of himself at the beginning and out for revenge but when faced with a situation to save others or follow his revenge he made the right call, which led to the completely ridiculous Sam saving the truck - that stunt should have instantly broken both his arms and shoulders, Sam is still a baseline human. Later we see him listening to Sam and i believe he realized what he was lacking as Captain America and why he never clicked into place - it's not about your skills, strength or even the shield but the person underneath and he just wasn't cut out to be an international symbol. However later when he's revealed as US Agent we still get to see why he couldn't be a good Captain America - to him this is still superhero stuff when all "regular" Superheroes never really wanted to be one but were forced through circumstance to rise to the job. That is something he still needs to learn.

Bucky's closure was also long coming but it felt a bit short, maybe it is for the best though to keep it short because what would it have revealed we already don't know. I liked it that he just doesn't return to the bar as if nothing happened - even though he was friend to the old man before the reveal the fact alone that he killed his son, even if he wasn't in control of himself, just ends any friendship - that felt very realistic.

Zemo, even in the most secure prison on Earth, is still able to scheme - i just had to laugh at his smile and relaxation when he heard the news. I love villains that you can be ambiguous about such as Loki and him - they are the best ones ( and his motivation is completely understandable).

Fortunately Marvel has already stated that Falcon and Winter Soldier could be continued as opposed to shows like Wandavision, which was confirmed to be a one off so fingers crossed for a new season next year or so.

 

[thribs]

Are we supposed to believe Sharon has gone dark? I don’t buy it. There’s more to that story.

So with Sam now being Captain Falcon will we be seeing the iconic punch?

 

[thribs]

OK, Sharon is now officially the worst villain in the MCU. Yes including Thanos. The giant purple nutter may have murdered trillions, but at least he wasn't a disgrace to the name 'Carter'!

And am I crazy, or did Walker get off WAY too easy? I mean sure, he's a stooge of Madame (probably) Not-Hydra and that will not end well for him, but I think they missed a beat in his arc there going from borderline crazed to magnanimous.

Captain America sounded like Captain America should. Look forward to more of that.

Walker just made a mistake and killed some nobody. If anything the government turned their backs on him too quickly. I’m sure he’ll do fine in the Thunderbolts with Zemo and the new Black Widow.

 

[Saul]

Walker just made a mistake and killed some nobody.

Uhh... That's not a mistake no matter how you justify it. That's murder. Nobody or not.

 

[thribs]

Uhh... That's not a mistake no matter how you justify it. That's murder. Nobody or not.

Bah! Winter Soldier has done far worse things.

 

[Saul]

Bah! Winter Soldier has done far worse things.

Not by choice!

 

[Seven of Five]

That was a lovely end to the season. If it turns out that there is a season two as well, all the better. I loved Sam's new suit - especially the wings! I also loved the title change to Captain America and the Winter Soldier.

I was pleased to see Walker come around in the end. I mean, he's still a total dick, but when the going got tough, he actually did a lot of good.

The series has been very good at maintaining high tension throughout the scenes with action, but th has also been a lot of meat to enjoy as well. I was very moved by all scenes with Isiah Bradley, especially in the latest episode when he had a statue of honour in the Captain America museum. It was a beautiful moment, as was when he was watching Sam giving the amazing speech on TV.

 

[FPAlpha]

Bah! Winter Soldier has done far worse things.

And it was murder, every time. However he was verifiably brainwashed and not in control of his actions, which is a big difference to Walker. Walker killed a man out of rage and revenge, who at that time was unarmed and possibly posed no threat anymore.