Spoilers The Falcon and Winter Soldier discussion
- Thread starter Turtletrekker
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Well, yeah. They guy was a Special Forces Colonel before all this happened so he's hardly some innocent guy.
Again this seems to tie into how the show asks us we define a hero and villain. Zemo obviously killed lots of people....but in service to his Government. Which means it's not very different from stuff Natasha and Clint and Steve did.
Now, his actions during Civil War where he blew up the UN Summit and killed King T'Chaka...not so ambiguous.
No..Quake defeated Graviton and prevented that.
Not just T'Chaka. The former Hydra colonel from The Winter Soldier program (but one could argue that he had it coming). There was also the doctor that the UN sent to interrogate Bucky and all of the people on the surface level next to the truck when the bomb went off at the UN.
As well as anyone who was directly or indirectly harmed or killed when the power went out because of his electromagnetic bomb.
There was an entire season about Earth being an asteroid field in the future.
That's their natural timeline.
After they kicked that turd to the curb, the new time line they escaped to still didn't seem to have experienced the snappening.
"Natural timeline"?
Virgin timeline.
Zero molestation from dirty time travelers.
Zero molestation from dirty time travelers.
..if they suffer from selective memory, or work for a certain cable news channel.
Alternatively, they just had the Wakandans repair the shield before he ever left. Which is so much simpler an explanation than anything involving time travel or parallel worlds. I mean, they're kind of best friends with the experts on, and source of, vibranium. No need to overthink these things.
Exactly.
I rewatched the first five episodes today and a few things stood out that I didn't notice the first time around:
This might be nothing but it might be something. Zemo didn't make his move to kill Nagel until Sharon came running into the lab. That might have been coincidental timing but I wonder if Zemo quickly shot Nagel at that precise moment because he didn't want Nagel identifying Sharon as the Power Broker and Zemo wanted to keep Sam and Bucky in the dark on that information.
During their shield tossing session, Sam asked Bucky if he's still having nightmares and Bucky doesn't even hesitate to say yes, which is a nice contrast to Bucky's therapy appointment with Dr. Raynor in the first episode where he was very evasive on the manner.
To bring further clarity about Saul's query about Steve giving the shield to Sam, Bucky specifically says that Steve told him that he decided to give Sam the shield, indicating it wasn't even a discussion, rather it was something that Steve had already decided on. That means he probably told Bucky that decision in the same moment he told Bucky that he was planning to stay in the past for Peggy. Which could've happened just moments before that scene began in Endgame.
This was something I actually noticed last week but forgot to comment on: During the John versus Sam and Bucky fight, John kept yelling at Sam "Why are you making me do this?!" A classic moment of an abuser blaming the victim for the violence the abuser is inflicting on the victim. Adding to the long list of horrible, awful things about John Walker.
This might be nothing but it might be something. Zemo didn't make his move to kill Nagel until Sharon came running into the lab. That might have been coincidental timing but I wonder if Zemo quickly shot Nagel at that precise moment because he didn't want Nagel identifying Sharon as the Power Broker and Zemo wanted to keep Sam and Bucky in the dark on that information.
During their shield tossing session, Sam asked Bucky if he's still having nightmares and Bucky doesn't even hesitate to say yes, which is a nice contrast to Bucky's therapy appointment with Dr. Raynor in the first episode where he was very evasive on the manner.
To bring further clarity about Saul's query about Steve giving the shield to Sam, Bucky specifically says that Steve told him that he decided to give Sam the shield, indicating it wasn't even a discussion, rather it was something that Steve had already decided on. That means he probably told Bucky that decision in the same moment he told Bucky that he was planning to stay in the past for Peggy. Which could've happened just moments before that scene began in Endgame.
This was something I actually noticed last week but forgot to comment on: During the John versus Sam and Bucky fight, John kept yelling at Sam "Why are you making me do this?!" A classic moment of an abuser blaming the victim for the violence the abuser is inflicting on the victim. Adding to the long list of horrible, awful things about John Walker.
I think he has some respect for Sam and Bucky, and knowing especially Sam has some moral boundaries like Steve... he wants to keep them "pure". I know, weird . But just a thought...all of us seem to have SOME inconsistencies
Or he could just be twisting the knife. Letting them think she's still a strong ally will only make it hurt that much worse if she turns out to be an other side now.
Either way, killing Nagel was almost certainly part of Zemo's game plan all along. He wasn't about to let the dude who create more super soldiers live if he had a chance to end him.
Switching gears, a spoiler I'll hide for the finale tomorrow, just in case. In regards to a leaked television promo...
So somebody captured what looks to be the TV ad for the complete series, which was presumably going to go live at some point after the finale tomorrow. And though it's only for a split second, we get a look at Sam in the Captain America suit, wings and all. Just a glimpse, but hot damn if it doesn't look good. I'll be honest, I whooped at my TV. And I'll do it again tomorrow when I see it in the episode as it airs, with a more proper reveal. I love Sam's comic Cap outfit, and this looks to be super faithful but still MCU.
Either of those explanations work. My initial thought was Zemo wanted to maintain full control of the situation and figured that if Sam and Bucky knew what was (potentially) going on with Sharon, he would lose that control.
Yeah, I agree Zemo was going to kill him either way, but I thought the timing of when he did kill Nagel was telling this time around.
So, what was the significance of Zemo's mask anyway? In the end, it just feels like a gratuitous moment of comic accurate fanservice that had no relevance to the story.
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