The Eternal Question: TNG or DS9

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Spirit of 73, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    Trekkies were strung out and desperate for some new stories after a drought of decades. They were willing to take whatever came.

    It's only once there started to literally be several hundred episodes of Trek that the bloom came off the rose.
     
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  2. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I often think that the first TNG episode looks odd as if made separately from the other episodes. For one thing, there's far too much exposure. I don't think it was such a good idea to introduce Q in that episode. Plus they showed a few things that were never seen later like men in skirts... As if someone (important) saw it and said; "Hey guys, let's drop that idea, ok?"
     
  3. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

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    Memory Alpha says it was seen in the background in a few more episodes after that.

    Kor
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Popular or not I couldn't stand Season 1. The rest was difficult to get in to.
     
  5. marlboro

    marlboro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They're both awesome and eternally rewatchable.

    /turns on two tv's and begins watching both shows simultaneously
     
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  6. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm just sayin. It was the bee's knees back in eighty-sev'n
     
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  7. Velocity

    Velocity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really like them both. The characters and stories were great, mostly. After DS9, the writing didn't grab me as much and the characters weren't as well defined.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Are we trying to bring back the 80s? :wtf:

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't notice.
     
  10. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I still like most of the stories but some seem really stupid in hindsight, mostly I guess because technology has evolved and we see some things differently than we used to in the 80s and the 90s.
     
  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A lot of '80s TV also wasn't really that great. So TNG S1's quality issues might've been less noticeable.
     
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  12. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    TNG used to be my favorite, but one day I realized I had a hard time watching reruns or re watching it online.

    It's like you've seen it a million times already and already know what the characters are going to say and do.

    TNG is classic, but ultimately I think its flaw is that it was stuck in a formula that made the characters limited. It was basically episodic story of the week and everyone and everything was perfect.


    I find DS9 very re watchable because the subject matter, dialog and characters seem more 3 dimensional. So it's like each time you watch it again, its like watching it for the first time.
     
  13. jgf

    jgf Lieutenant Newbie

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    For me, no contest, TNG wins by a mile. In fact (get the tar and feathers ready), if you add in the other ST series as well, DS9 is still at the bottom of my list. It is a dreary soap opera in a sci-fi setting, with seasonally redundant plots (Kardashians take over, or nearly take over, DS9; Federation and Klingons team up and defeat Kardashians; next two episodes everyone complains about the mess left by the Kardashians).
     
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  14. ToyBoxComix

    ToyBoxComix Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    TNG is very special to me, but DS9 is a better show overall.
     
  15. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    At the time, a lot of kids sorta liked it but thought at lot of it was hokey too. The groundbreaking effects-creation methodologies to provide then-reasonable quality by using newer videotape editing techniques for effects (phasers) creation, combined with actors that somehow managed screen presence (they all pretty much had!) despite the joke that circulated in 1987 that "Data is the most human character in the new show", the aura of Trek was still at a high point with the Kirk movies, and lack of other big-budget sci-fi shows airing 26 episodes a season (Dr Who, the only near-contender, had lost out due to its 1987 season looking and being absolutely stupid, never mind 13 half-hour episodes were transmitted as omnibus 4 stories for most PBS stations.) TL;DR prevailing, the ratings numbers were enough and the show got another run - of which I know I'm thankful for! TNG's evolution is a rare thing, on so many levels.

    DS9 feels the most TOS-like with character conflict, but more expansive in plot scope and potential. And ironic, since the first three years had them largely stuck at a galactic bus terminal and not on a ship - but that didn't prevent the show from putting out a lot of great stuff. The Defiant definitely helped, but early on it wasn't needed - they had enough plot strands to make it more than viable.

    I'm liking that post for the misspelling of "Cardassians". DS9 did have soap opera but it also had a heck of a lot stronger action and setup than TNG had.

    In a way, they were aiming for "realism" in a continuing serialized arc instead of the standalone episodes where they would reclaim the ship at the end of the episode and in the very next it look like nothing ever happened.

    DS9 did have some redundant/recycled plots, including what you'd brought up and others... sometimes they did it better (Starship Down > Disaster ^42) and sometimes they did it worse (Sarek > Dramatis Personae (^42(^42))). But some of the redos of war arcs still had me hooked *blush*. There are only so many plot types but before I get to the best comparisons I'll get to them:

    TNG had redundancies and redos all the time: Among other examples, "Measure of a Man" was done several times over and only with diminishing returns, by "The Quality of Life" they weren't merely sleepwriting they were in a coma and using the cut'n'paste functions in word processors...

    TOS too and they had THE best! They had umpteen examples of "Kirk vs the Computer where he verbally nags it until it explodes - unless it's the Enterprise computer being affected in which case they sic Spock onto it so it leaves the ship without being destroyed in an odd twist o' fate". Another oft-used gem: "Kirk on the planet they equate as being Eden despite giant albino unicorn apes or Snake Mountain with beach towel-wearing hawt dingalings or the hippie planet with the deadly vegetation", "Planet of parallel Earth development so we can raid the wardrobes instead of having to make new things but we'll sleepwalk through those too because "100 years ago we left a bunch of copies of the same book for everyone to read and the book was about gangsters so now we're on the planet of the Bonnie and Clydes" or "we're Yangs or Kohms with a perfect copy of the constitution and Flag designs", NaziWorld, the generic nameless 1960 world (that doubled as Bonnie'n'Clydeville) for Miri, Planet of the Flappers (1920s, something they missed out on but consciously so since Kirk would be all over that map), and so on.

    All that glorious sardonic nitpicking doesn't mean all these instances are hideously bad by default or 'just because', within a myriad of qualifiers and constraints they relied on what seemed popular at the time, to varying returns. Key themes did remain popular so why not reuse them as much as characters... or both at once, like the Borg (they even used 7's origins, twice.)

    Style over substance, some A-Team and Knight Rider were okay (of which some have held up reasonably well) but the 80s often had nothing more than vapid cartoonish action or truly lame soap opera.
     
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  16. Richard Cranium

    Richard Cranium Ensign Newbie

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    TNG was ok if you held your nose. It was neutered to make a new political statement.
    A watered down version of Discovery. Ro was my fav person. The only episode I even remember is the knock off TOS where its the water, and a whole lot more. Also Troy was braless.
    DS9 was a refreshing vision and a departure from the white washed TOS & TNG worlds. New and different was good.
    My vote DS9
     
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  17. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Commander Red Shirt

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    For me, this is not really close.

    TNG & TOS are easily my favorites by some distance.

    DS9 is clearly third. Though there is more of a gap between DS9 & VOY/ENT then DS9 & TOS/TNG.

    I did not think either DS9 or TNG was very strong to start. Both improved. If you ask me, the strongest S1s (aside from TOS which wins by a mile) were VOY & DISCO.

    A lot to like in DS9. Best Trek relationship (Kira/Odo) by a country mile. But too many Ferengi episodes & trips to the holodeck with Julian, Chief, & Vic for me (though a couple were quite good). Nor did I like the turn into mustache twirling evil for Gul Dukat & Winn at the end. Much better with shades.

    YMMV.
     
  18. Beckerjr

    Beckerjr Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    DS9 IMO is the only show that could be done today with just updated production values/ special effects and mostly hold up to modern TV audience viewing.
     
  19. Arpy

    Arpy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I dunno. Orville basically is TNG with some Family Guy humor. A friend of mine’s not normally into sci-fi but watches it. And how many fans see that as Trek and Disco not?

    *than. Thaaaaaaaan!
    Then what happened?”
    “I like this more than that.”
    Apologies if it slipped, but I saw this in a few times recently. I drew the line HEAH!

    Deanna Troi
    The Lost City of Troy
    Troi wore the same strapless bra as many subsequent actresses, maybe invented for the show. I think when she wasn’t wearing one, it was purposeful (i.e. intimate situations, and why not it’s the human body, man).

    Having sufficiently alienated myself with three different people today, I’d say my work is done. Peace, and long life.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019 at 4:36 AM
  20. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Rechtschreibung und Grammatik!!:klingon:
     
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