The End Of Time Part 2 - Comment & Grading SPOILERS

[jamestyler]

Absolutely bloody loved every second. A triumphant, bombastic ball-buster of an exit, and what a poignant end to the RTD era. So excited about the future, Matt Smith was bloody brilliant in his post-regeneration trauma and looks to sustain it judging by the new series trailer.

I feel very strange to be in the "fuck the haters" crowd this time... but y'know what? Fuck 'em.*




* Directed at the already vocal "anti-Matt Smith" crowd, not those who didn't like the finale, which is fair enough.

Fuck me. Jim liked it! I did not expect that!

Okay, one more slight annoyance. So The Tenth Doctor's regeneration tears up the TARDIS interior despite only absorbing radiation but The Ninth Doctor's regeneration caused by taking in the Hear

I have that covered... he wanked out the regeneration process so much, bottling it up until it just exploded out of him. Or something like that.

Of course, the Ood seemed to imply at first that he was going to die and be lost forever throughout, until the last appearance as the Doctor staggers toward the Tardis. Then he says the end is just the beginning, the story never ends. Perhaps the Doctor didn't quite "get it" but it does imply that the Doctor is now somehow free from the limitation factors of only so many regenerations. How could that be unless the Tardis itself is now supplying the power?!

I like the idea that the TARDIS will keep him alive, but for the rest... he started regenerating as soon as he got out of the chamber. He touched his face and hs hands healed him, which to me was a sign that regeneration was starting.

It just took it's time.

Really people were whinging about that? I found it a bit frivolous. "Hey Jack, sorry you killed your grand son here have a shag." but I'd have felt the same if it'd been a woman...didn't quite sit right really.

Really? I can't see that side of it, just the Doctor helping him move on from his mistakes. I say mistakes, it was a no win scenario for Jack...

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Really people were whinging about that? I found it a bit frivolous. "Hey Jack, sorry you killed your grand son here have a shag." but I'd have felt the same if it'd been a woman...didn't quite sit right really.

Yep, people are trying to get a movement against the gay agenda in it...
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...5409#paginator

Meanwhile, on the Times site:

Quote:
Peter Jones wrote:
What a pity Russell Davies had to write-in gay references and even the word racist was used. Sadly a poor last effort.

Quote:
ROBERT BOYD wrote:
The worst Dr Who I have ever seen,whats with the homosesual bit?,it was sordid.This is a childrens programme!It was Boring crass and just bad acting.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6973532.ece

Unfuckingbelievable

Indeed. I think they'd be more at home with EastEnders.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Fuck sake. People will moan about anything won't they. Fuck 'em. I had enjoyed it, and so long as I'm entertained, informed or otherwise enjoy a show that's all I care about.

 

[selina]

I would have voted "good" but since that is not on the poll I went for "brilliant". I really enjoyed the episode. About the long goodbye I've got ambiguous fellings though. On the one hand I think that it was really a bit too long. On the other hand it was nice to see his old companions once more. However, I liked the Doctor's last sentence "I don't want to go". I felt for him.

 

[Saul]

It was a nice touch to have Tennant introduce us to the final episode too.

The two who voted against the timelords. Didn't we see their faces? Didn't they both look the same?

 

[Tom]

Really people were whinging about that? I found it a bit frivolous. "Hey Jack, sorry you killed your grand son here have a shag." but I'd have felt the same if it'd been a woman...didn't quite sit right really.

Yep, people are trying to get a movement against the gay agenda in it...
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thre...5409#paginator

Meanwhile, on the Times site:

Quote:
Peter Jones wrote:
What a pity Russell Davies had to write-in gay references and even the word racist was used. Sadly a poor last effort.

Quote:
ROBERT BOYD wrote:
The worst Dr Who I have ever seen,whats with the homosesual bit?,it was sordid.This is a childrens programme!It was Boring crass and just bad acting.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6973532.ece

Unfuckingbelievable

Indeed. I think they'd be more at home with EastEnders.

Not sure what the big deal is, RTD has gay references in almost all his episodes, he also makes almost every single couple interracial (rose/micky donna/both fiance's, Martha/Tom the list goes on..) That is why I was surprised he hooked Micky and Martha up, goes agaist his usual formula. I don't have any problems wth this but he tends to throw it in your face as much as he can, wonder if Moffet will do the same.

Going back to Micky and Martha, don't assume that scene was in the present that could have been in 2015 or something for all we know.

 

[Saul]

We had the Doctor kissing Jack since season 1 so I don't see any problem either. Even though Jack was more Bi I thought. Still the soaps can't handle gay storylines any better IMO, it turns into a bit of a circus and media attention when a soap introduces gay charaters. At least Doctor Who doesn't put a big honking arrow over it.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

The long drawn out "goodbye" scene was not needed.

P.S. WORST RESCUE EVER!

Except that it was great.

Spent the last half of part 2 alternately crying and giggling. Loved the "reward" scenes.

Yep.

I loved it.

Moffat and Smith are both going to have to fill some big shoes if they're going to make me fall in love with this show all over again.

Goddamned right. Having cherry-picked the old shot-on-video shows, I don't have the sentimental attachment to sit through a lot of bad TV on the sodden premise that "change is what DW is about." That Moffat wrote episodes like "The Girl In The Fireplace" is the only thing I've heard or seen about the new series that gives me reason to try it out.

Not sure what the big deal is, RTD has gay references in almost all his episodes, he also makes almost every single couple interracial (rose/micky donna/both fiance's, Martha/Tom the list goes on..)

Are interracial couples controversial at all in Great Britain? I'm asking because I honestly have no idea.

 

[Captaindemotion]

As the Ninth Doctor might have said: Fantastic!

A really, really moving departure for David Tennant. I must admit, I liked Eccleston so much that it took me until well into David's 2nd season before I had to admit that he had made the role his own. I now believe he was the best ever Doctor and am sorry to see him go. It was therefore an appropriately sad exit for his Doctor.

We could see that he was terrified of dying, that it wasn't just a case of 'hey-ho, a new body.' He wanted to remain as he was. Although I've seen all of the Doctors and have seen a few regenerations, I'm not sufficiently 'up' on the show's history to know if RTD changed the premise of how a Timelord regenerates. I'd always thought that they simply got a new body but remained essentially the same person, with perhaps a few new character traits. From the conversation the Doc with Wilf, it seemed almost more like a Trill situation - the same memories and knowledge going into an entirely different man, who goes 'swanning off.' (Of course, it could be that both interpretations are wrong).

Whatever about that, it did make for a poignant, heartbreaking exit for Ten(nant). He could have left Wilf to die - an old man, who'd lived a full life and perhaps had little to contribute or experience ahead of him - but he chose to sacrifice himself to save the old soldier, despite the protests of the latter. A brilliant, cruel twist and a means of making up for the Doc's dismissal of 'little people' in The Waters of Mars.

I had thought that in TWOM they'd made his character less sympathetic so as to soften the blow of his departure for us, but he ws back to his decent self by TEOT. I also hoped that at the end, he might say something like 'It's not like dying after all, it's like being re-born' or 'I'm ready now.' Instead, RTD tugged our heartstrings all the more with 'I don't want to go.' 'Awwwwww', went the wife and I simultaneously, without any sarcasm or cynicism.

Despite my sadness at Tennant's departure, I've been determined to give Matt Smith a fair crack of the whip (ie not to make the mistake I made when Eccleston left) and I thought his debut was great, if a little too close to DT's. I think he wil be great too, even if he looks like the Eric Stoltz character in Mask. Sorry, but it's true.

Couple of quibbles though. Okay, we know Tennant was leaving and Doc Ten had to regenerate. But I can't figure out why he had to go in to get Wilf immediately. Couldn't he have summonsed or returned to the TARDIS and found some way to beam him out (time to visit the 23rd century and invest in a Transporter beam?), without having to do a Spock?

And if the Doctor was able to stave off a regeneration when shot by a Dalek and in a much weaker (and closer to regeneration) condition, why couldn't he have done so here? Instead of visiting the companions (and I loved those scenes, btw, especially the Rose one), couldn't he have worked out some way to repeat the trick? Okay, he doesn't have the hand any more, but there must have been some way for him to do something similar, especially with all that time until he did regenerate?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Interestingly enough, though we didn't get the Time Lords back, now nothing's stopping Moffat from introducing new Time Lords character by explaining that they just hopped into a TARDIS while Gallifrey was orbiting Earth.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Anyway, did anyone else think that when The Doctor collapsed in the snow after talking to Rose that Eccleston was going to help him to the TARDIS? The first Doctor that RTD created and the beginning of his era coming back for one more scene at the end of it all.

Now that would have been good! But how would Eccleston know his future self would need help? Oh, I forgot, this is RTD and we have to leave any sense of "sense" at the door.

I would have forgiven that if such a scene had occurred, that would have been great, unfortunately I don't think CE would even consider such a thing.

is it me or is the female vinvocci sexier than the actress who played her out of the make up?

I thought the same thing, she seemed cuter as a cactus to me.

 

[Count Zero]

But I can't figure out why he had to go in to get Wilf immediately. Couldn't he have summonsed or returned to the TARDIS and found some way to beam him out (time to visit the 23rd century and invest in a Transporter beam?), without having to do a Spock?

I think he said that the radiation would flood the chamber any moment now. Naturally, situations like that work the way the writer intends them to. If it hadn't been supposed to be his death, RTD would have come up with a way to save Wilf. But I don't think it was implausible.

And if the Doctor was able to stave off a regeneration when shot by a Dalek and in a much weaker (and closer to regeneration) condition, why couldn't he have done so here? Instead of visiting the companions (and I loved those scenes, btw, especially the Rose one), couldn't he have worked out some way to repeat the trick? Okay, he doesn't have the hand any more, but there must have been some way for him to do something similar, especially with all that time until he did regenerate?

Well, as you say, he didn't have the means to do it and 'Journey's End' made it very clear that the metacrisis was something almost unique.
You could also just explain it in human terms: you may survive a gunshot wound, but not radiation sickness. These things just happen. Sometimes you're lucky and evade almost certain death and sometimes you don't. The same is true for the Doctor.

 

[thinker]

what if their head were in a helmet when the 'shake-shake-shake transform' effect happened? wouldn't part of their face become puree by the brute force?

 

[Count Zero]

The guards wore helmets, so apparently not.

 

[Bacl]

I loved the finale, and although there were a few bumps, all in all it was a great sendoff.

A few thoughts:

1. The Master having superpowers was not needed. The scene in the wasteland could have been just as easily accomplished with the Doctor chasing after him. The Doctor and the Master are persons who use their brain, and their words...not shot lightning from their eyes and fly. Not a big problem, but my biggest problem, which shows there weren't any big problems!

2. The Obama stuff was a bit jarring. I got the feeling this was supposed to be a bit of a joke, along the lines of, "Obama is about to offer a plan to save the world economy...oh! Too late! He's the Master!" It took us out of the story and the stunt double who they shot from the back didn't resemble Obama. But whatever. Such minor quibbles I have!

3. I loved the Doctor's "rewards" but Micky and Martha felt puzzling and not in in character. While it is perfectly conceivable that Martha dumped her fiancee and married Micky, it is also VERY out of right field. Them being soldiers fighting a Sontaran was also very different for the characters. I would have liked them to get "reward" scenes a little more consistent with their characters. Michy and Martha in all black, married and shooting lasers...eh. But the thought was sweet.

4. Tardis getting that damaged by the regeneration is a bit over the top. I would have preferred a more believable crash into a sun or something as the cause.

5. My only other regret for the episode is that the Doctor died alone. Am I right that this is the very first time this has happened? There's usually always a companion or someone else around. Dying alone seemed kind of...

But again, this was a fantastic finale. Some of the conversations between the Doctor and Wilf, the Doctor and the Master, etc, were very deep and adult. Has anyone typed up the list of horrors that the Doctor speaks of? Some of them sounded really horrifying, something about the Child of Never-Was and His Army of Never-Weres? Chilling.

Oh! And what was the weeping angels reference? I missed it!

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ The two Timelords who voted against The President were forced to kneel with their hands over their eyes, in a position reminiscent of the Angels.

As regards the Doctor dying alone, I think you're right, though we never saw how McGann regenerated into Eccleston.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

what if their head were in a helmet when the 'shake-shake-shake transform' effect happened? wouldn't part of their face become puree by the brute force?

Most helmets turn with the head.

I think you're overthinking that anyway as if the head shaking makes any sense in that process anyway.

2. The Obama stuff was a bit jarring. I got the feeling this was supposed to be a bit of a joke, along the lines of, "Obama is about to offer a plan to save the world economy...oh! Too late! He's the Master!" It took us out of the story and the stunt double who they shot from the back didn't resemble Obama. But whatever. Such minor quibbles I have!

Of course, this is the same series that has the queen waving and saying "Thank you, Doctor". It was a bit odd though and I think a bit of a barb at Obamamania as well.

 

[Captain Shaw]

[

Are interracial couples controversial at all in Great Britain? I'm asking because I honestly have no idea.

Even though my part of the UK is probably 99% white i have never heard anyone say they have a problem with mixed race couples.

 

[Thor Damar]

Oh yeah the list from Hell. I think the Doctor was referring to the Nightmare Child (which is something or someone that we never see) and his (!) army of never-weres. There was also a lot of other stuff mentioned that seems to make the Daleks a pathetic also ran in the terror stakes.

I would hope that the ninth Doctor does destroy the TLs if only to save them from their living Hell.(after the Master has finished kicking arse on Gallifrey of course).

 

[votd]

I just keep thinking about 10b with all the Doctor's memories living in a parallel dimension - a bit of pseudo-science and the walls between worlds can come down again and out pops Rose and 10b; this probably won't happen of course, but it allows for an easy two doctors story in the future without having to worry about walking all over the Doctor's personal timestreams etc. so 10 hasn't actually gone...from a certain point of view.