The Dominion war.

[Bluesteel]

One thing that I don't get is this. Why do the AQ Allies feel the need to piss of the Dominion.

The Dominion told them not to go the Gamma Quadrant. Yet people like Sisko feel the need and entitlement to go there.

The worst thing is the fact that the Bajorans decided to start up a colony there when they were having famines in Bajor.

Now reverse that. The Dominion go to Cardassia. How does everybody react? They have a fleet waiting for them. They attempt to kill the leader of Dominion Cardassia.

But the worst thing is the fact that they started the Dominion. They closed off the wormhole. Obviously the Dominion were using the wormhole in a manner the AQ allies didn't like. But then again the Dominion didn't like the fact that the the AQ kept sending ships to the GQ yet they had the decency not to close off the wormhole.



Man Im bored and I am making no sense.

 

[apenpaap]

If the wormhole actually opened into Dominion space on the Gamma side, like it did in allied space on the Alpha side, you would have a point, but the fact that it took two years before Dominion first contact shows that Idran is quite some distance away from Dominion space.
The alphas were also going to the Gamma quadrant mainly for exploration, and in Bajor's case to settle a few (presumably) empty planets. The Dominion came through the wormhole to depose of the (at the time kind of democratic) government of Cardassia and put up a marionet as its leader.

 

[Anwar]

Also, the first contact with the Dominion wasn't exactly a good one. They destroyed all the vessels in the GQ at the time and massacred the Bajoran colonies.

When you have some visitors from out of town walking about and not knowing where they are when they inadvertently stumble into your backyard, do you just let them know where they are and the what the boundaries are, or do you kill them on the spot and then contact their home and let them know how you massacred unaware explorers and civilians?

 

[RyuRoots]

A quadrant of the galaxy is a big place, and the GQ doesn't belong to the dominion, not in entirety even if much of it does. There are many references in eps to not being in their territory while in the GQ. The areas that were settled and such were open to the Bajorans/Starfleet, at least to the best of their knowledge at the time.

And uh, generally speaking, sending in tons of military ships through your territory for a buildup for a war against you is something people dont' take particularly well to.

 

[Deks]

The Dominion was first to initiate hostilities actually.
They destroyed exploratory ships and massacred colonies as it was already stated.
The Dominion also asked the Federation to retreat from the GQ altogether.
Retreat from the entire quadrant of a galaxy that didn't even belong to the Dominion as a whole which was roughly the size of the Federation if not smaller?

Plus the Wormhole's exist was not inside Dominion space.
That much has been confirmed in the show on several occasions.
So I personally think the Dominion intentionally initiated hostilities due to the Founders hatred for one thing and tried turning it around as a self-defence when in fact they were the aggressors.

 

[docclan1]

The Dominion was first to initiate hostilities actually.
They destroyed exploratory ships and massacred colonies as it was already stated.
The Dominion also asked the Federation to retreat from the GQ altogether.
Retreat from the entire quadrant of a galaxy that didn't even belong to the Dominion as a whole which was roughly the size of the Federation if not smaller?

Plus the Wormhole's exist was not inside Dominion space.
That much has been confirmed in the show on several occasions.
So I personally think the Dominion intentionally initiated hostilities due to the Founders hatred for one thing and tried turning it around as a self-defence when in fact they were the aggressors.

guys im new to this so please explain why some of you se have crazy radom phrases after comments..........which to be honest......are mostly.......shite

 

[rahullak]

The Dominion was first to initiate hostilities actually.
They destroyed exploratory ships and massacred colonies as it was already stated.
The Dominion also asked the Federation to retreat from the GQ altogether.
Retreat from the entire quadrant of a galaxy that didn't even belong to the Dominion as a whole which was roughly the size of the Federation if not smaller?

Plus the Wormhole's exist was not inside Dominion space.
That much has been confirmed in the show on several occasions.
So I personally think the Dominion intentionally initiated hostilities due to the Founders hatred for one thing and tried turning it around as a self-defence when in fact they were the aggressors.

This. And the Founders hated and feared all "solids" they couldn't control. This was due to the persecution their people faced at the hands of some "solids" before they found their home planet and decided to genetically engineer controllable "solids" to use to try to control the rest of the quadrant/galaxy. They were order and control freaks.

 

[rahullak]

guys im new to this so please explain why some of you se have crazy radom phrases after comments..........which to be honest......are mostly.......shite

That's called the signature. Check your User Profile. You should be able to add one if you want.

 

[Bluesteel]

A quadrant of the galaxy is a big place, and the GQ doesn't belong to the dominion, not in entirety even if much of it does. There are many references in eps to not being in their territory while in the GQ. The areas that were settled and such were open to the Bajorans/Starfleet, at least to the best of their knowledge at the time.

And uh, generally speaking, sending in tons of military ships through your territory for a buildup for a war against you is something people dont' take particularly well to.

The Cardassians joined the Dominion. What the Dominion did was nothing compared to what the Klingons did.

Also the act that started the war was the sealing off of the wormhole. The Federation didn't like the Dominion rebuilding the Cardassian forces destroyed by their former allies. What do they do? They block the access for the Dominion. When the Dominion send a fleet to stop it covertly Klingons and Federation ships enter Dominion territory and attack shipyards. The Dominion hasn't even made any aggressive tactics.

Also what was up with the Non-Aggression pact? Anybody who didn't want to fight the Dominion was a traitor? Why should the Romulans get scorned because they decided not to fight. Why in fact should a senator and many of their people die under false pretense. Is that not murder?



Oh and You guys are right about the Gamma Quadrant not being Dominon territory. But then again the Alpha Quadrant isn't a Federation/Klingon/Romulan territory. If they can and did control "who gets to stay here" for the Alpha Quadrant then weren't the Dominion right in the first place in banning them from entering their side of the galaxy.


Twp wrongs don't mak a right.

 

[rahullak]

Also the act that started the war was the sealing off of the wormhole. The Federation didn't like the Dominion rebuilding the Cardassian forces destroyed by their former allies. What do they do? They block the access for the Dominion. When the Dominion send a fleet to stop it covertly Klingons and Federation ships enter Dominion territory and attack shipyards. The Dominion hasn't even made any aggressive tactics.

First of all, the wormhole on the AQ side is Bajoran territory and is controlled by DS9. Starfleet helps Bajor administer DS9. This means, with Bajor's blessing (and the Sisko is of Bajor), they can do whatever the hell they want with the wormhole: close it, open it, blow it up, tax the travelers, mine it, whatever. The war started when the Dominion sent their fleet to take DS9, a clear and direct act of aggression and war.

Oh and You guys are right about the Gamma Quadrant not being Dominon territory. But then again the Alpha Quadrant isn't a Federation/Klingon/Romulan territory. If they can and did control "who gets to stay here" for the Alpha Quadrant then weren't the Dominion right in the first place in banning them from entering their side of the galaxy.

Twp wrongs don't mak a right.

The point is that the wormhole opens into Bajoran territory in the AQ, controlled by DS9, which Starfleet administers. The wormhole does not open into Dominion territory in the GQ. It opens into uncontrolled space. Therefore, DS9 can say who should enter/exit and who shouldn't on the AQ side, and the Dominiondo not have a say as to who should enter/exit on the GQ side. Besides, as others have pointed out, Starfleet was only on a mission of exploration and did not send in fleets of ships to occupy worlds in the GQ by force.

Point 2 is that the Dominion sent hundreds of warships through the wormhole (and hence through Bajoran territory), to ostensibly help "protect" Cardassia. Do you think if their positions were reversed, that the Dominion would allow even a single Federation warship through the wormhole, let alone a fleet? It's a testament to the tolerance of Bajor and Starfleet that they allowed such a thing to happen. Sisko also made it clear to Weyoun that they will not tolerate anymore Dominion ships entering the AQ. When Weyoun refused, that was when Sisko and Starfleet decided to mine the AQ side of the wormhole, which they have every right to do.

 

[Navaros]

The OP does a good job of exposing Federation hypocrisy.

The Feds see themselves as perfect gods who can do whatever they want, can do no wrong, and can dictate to others what they can and cannot do.

There is absolutely no reason why the Feds should have continued entering the GQ after the Dominion warned them not to.

Also true that the Cardassians joining the Dominion is nowhere near as bad as what the Klingons did to Cardassia whilst the Feds twiddled their thumbs and did nothing about it, which is another example of how the Feds employ selective morality. The genocide disease is yet another great example of that too.

 

[rahullak]

The OP does a good job of exposing Federation hypocrisy.

The Feds see themselves as perfect gods who can do whatever they want, can do no wrong, and can dictate to others what they can and cannot do.

.

I wouldn't say gods. Though, what is portrayed onscreen does come off as morally dictatorial and preachy.

There is absolutey no reason why the Feds should have continued entering the GQ after the Dominion warned them not to.

Well, as I've pointed out before, the Dominion does not control the wormhole on the GQ side. It's also not close to Dominion controlled territory. Simply "warning" another power not to tread on territory that does not even belong to you doesn't mean that that power should listen to you.
It's a question of simple rights. The Dominion has no say over whether Starfleet or anyone else can enter the GQ. They do however have say over the regions of the GQ that they do control.

If there were another hypothetical wormhole that led into uncontrolled space in the AQ and Dominion space in the GQ, and the Dominion were using it to occupy unclaimed worlds in the AQ, then the Federation would have no say in the matter and would be wrong to try to enter the wormhole with fleets of ships and ally with a hypothetical rival power of the Dominion and the Dominion would have every right to mine their side of the wormhole.

The genocide disease is yet another great example of that too.

Which was unsanctioned by Starfleet or the Federation and perpetrated by a terrorist organization, and which Starfleet tried to stop. Bringing in rogue organizations into the argument doesn't help. That's like saying, the actions of the rogue Jem Hadar should be seen as the actions of the Dominion as a whole.

 

[Bluesteel]

The point is that the wormhole opens into Bajoran territory in the AQ, controlled by DS9, which Starfleet administers.

The wormhole is an open space. There hasn't been a single incident in the entire tv show of someone being banned using the wormhole just the station. That is with the exception of the Dominion.

Which was unsanctioned by Starfleet or the Federation and perpetrated by a terrorist organization, and which Starfleet tried to stop. Bringing in rogue organizations into the argument doesn't help. That's like saying, the actions of the rogue Jem Hadar should be seen as the actions of the Dominion as a whole.

Stop? How so did they try and stop them? Starfleet collaborated with 31. They would publicly oppose them but privately support them. Starfleet is an accomplice to attempted genocide.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, and? You make it sound like the Dominion WOULDN'T commit genocide.

Bottom line is, the Feds didn't go through with it which helped end the war. The Dominion was aching for war from day one, they were in the wrong and hostile all the way. The Feds simply defended themselves in a totally believable and rational method.

And nuts, once again I failed to make the betting pot over how long before Navaros arrived to spew.

 

[rahullak]

The point is that the wormhole opens into Bajoran territory in the AQ, controlled by DS9, which Starfleet administers.

The wormhole is an open space. There hasn't been a single incident in the entire tv show of someone being banned using the wormhole just the station. That is with the exception of the Dominion.

Well, the Bajoran wormhole is in Bajoran space. And it does have a Bajoran space station orbiting it. DS9 had to fire its thrusters for a few minutes to move away from Bajor to get to it. The fact that they didn't stop anyone else only means that they didn't have a problem with anyone else, because no one else was bringing in fleets of ships or threatening them in any way. I repeat, they have the right to do whatever they wanted to the wormhole (with the approval of Bajor and the wormhole aliens of course)

Which was unsanctioned by Starfleet or the Federation and perpetrated by a terrorist organization, and which Starfleet tried to stop. Bringing in rogue organizations into the argument doesn't help. That's like saying, the actions of the rogue Jem Hadar should be seen as the actions of the Dominion as a whole.

Stop? How so did they try and stop them? Starfleet collaborated with 31. They would publicly oppose them but privately support them. Starfleet is an accomplice to attempted genocide.

Starfleet extracted the antidote by force from a Section 31 operative. They allowed Odo to beam down to the female Changeling. Kira, representative of Starfleet, allowed Odo to link with the female changeling curing her of the disease even when the female changeling was prepared to commit genocide of the Cardassians in some meaningless suicidal attempt to make the victory pyrrhic for the Federation Allies.
There are obviously rogue elements within Starfleet that are supportive of Section 31. But the Federation and Starfleet does not sanction these actions and any such actions are rogue just as the actions of the rogue Jem Hadar are not condoned by the Dominion. Starfleet never was and never will be a party to attempted genocide.

 

[Navaros]

Which was unsanctioned by Starfleet or the Federation and perpetrated by a terrorist organization, and which Starfleet tried to stop.

It became sanctioned by Starfleet and the Federation when they refused to provide the cure for it and thereby endorsed the disease and the organization that made it. Starfleet and the Federation certainly didn't try to stop it, but rather they took the morally-abhorrent route of going out of their way to not stop it.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

And nuts, once again I failed to make the betting pot over how long before Navaros arrived to spew.

Unnecessary personal comment.

Please refrain from doing this in the future or it will be a warning for trolling.

Thanks.

 

[Jono]

The Cardassians joined the Dominion. What the Dominion did was nothing compared to what the Klingons did.

The Dominion supported a regime change by installing Dukat as the military dictator on Cardassia, who in term repaid the Dominion by signing over all that was theirs to the Founders.

The Dominion then drags Cardassia into a war that will only be fought on their soil and slowly but surely usurps everything until the Cardassian aren't even masters in their own lands.

Also the act that started the war was the sealing off of the wormhole.

Actually the act that started the war was a Dominion fleet attacking a Federation administered space station and starship. The mining of the wormhole was the last link in the chain that lead up to war, one that was started when

The Federation didn't like the Dominion rebuilding the Cardassian forces destroyed by their former allies. What do they do? They block the access for the Dominion. When the Dominion send a fleet to stop it covertly Klingons and Federation ships enter Dominion territory and attack shipyards. The Dominion hasn't even made any aggressive tactics.

So there is nothing aggressive about sending a fleet to attack a space station? I guess in that case there is nothing aggressive about sending 5 military convoys of warships and troops to fortify their new territory or attempting to blow up a star to destroy a Klingon-Fed-Rom fleet.

If they just wanted to rebuild Cardassia they could have taken the wormhole and just held the line there but they instead went out conquering.

Also what was up with the Non-Aggression pact? Anybody who didn't want to fight the Dominion was a traitor? Why should the Romulans get scorned because they decided not to fight.

It was probably a shock because the Romulans had attempted to wipe out the Founders a few years before and they sent a fleet to support the Federation and Klingons when the Dominion first entered the quadrant. I think the Federation and Starfleet believed that the Romulans were going to continue in that vein.

Oh and You guys are right about the Gamma Quadrant not being Dominon territory. But then again the Alpha Quadrant isn't a Federation/Klingon/Romulan territory. If they can and did control "who gets to stay here" for the Alpha Quadrant then weren't the Dominion right in the first place in banning them from entering their side of the galaxy.

Twp wrongs don't mak a right.

The Federation was more then willing to let people from the Gamma Quadrant come into the Alpha Quadrant. The problem was the Dominion did not seem all that interested in coming over and entering a meaningful dialogue and instead was issuing edicts. Plus the didn't send over a few ships to explore, they sent a large fleet of warships brimming with troops ready for war.

 

[Bluesteel]

Actually the act that started the war was a Dominion fleet attacking a Federation administered space station and starship. The mining of the wormhole was the last link in the chain that lead up to war, one that was started when

No the act of war was defiantly the blocking off of the wormhole.

So there is nothing aggressive about sending a fleet to attack a space station? I guess in that case there is nothing aggressive about sending 5 military convoys of warships and troops to fortify their new territory or attempting to blow up a star to destroy a Klingon-Fed-Rom fleet.

If they just wanted to rebuild Cardassia they could have taken the wormhole and just held the line there but they instead went out conquering.

The first aggresive move was to block off the wormhole. What the Dominion did was a reaction to that aggression by trying to stop it. When they failed to stop the wormhole being sealed the Federation and the Klingons started to attack their territories in Cardassia. What do you expect them to do? Wait around? Of course they had to respond.

The Dominion supported a regime change by installing Dukat as the military dictator on Cardassia, who in term repaid the Dominion by signing over all that was theirs to the Founders.

The Dominion then drags Cardassia into a war that will only be fought on their soil and slowly but surely usurps everything until the Cardassian aren't even masters in their own lands.

We aren't talking about what happened after. We're up to "Call To Arms" when Kira decides to kill Dukat because he's part of the Dominion. Definantly an act of aggression.

The Federation was more then willing to let people from the Gamma Quadrant come into the Alpha Quadrant. The problem was the Dominion did not seem all that interested in coming over and entering a meaningful dialogue and instead was issuing edicts. Plus the didn't send over a few ships to explore, they sent a large fleet of warships brimming with troops ready for war.

To their own territory.

Well, the Bajoran wormhole is in Bajoran space. And it does have a Bajoran space station orbiting it. DS9 had to fire its thrusters for a few minutes to move away from Bajor to get to it. The fact that they didn't stop anyone else only means that they didn't have a problem with anyone else, because no one else was bringing in fleets of ships or threatening them in any way. I repeat, they have the right to do whatever they wanted to the wormhole (with the approval of Bajor and the wormhole aliens of course)

I think what you will find is that no one was controlling who would enter or leave the wormhole. The Bajoran government kept a hands off approach letting DS9 be the boss of the wormhole. DS9 only controlled what ship could dock at the station and the safety of the wormhole. They didn't do anything about people entering or leaving the station. Nor did they ever attempt that with the exception of the mines.

Starfleet extracted the antidote by force from a Section 31 operative. They allowed Odo to beam down to the female Changeling. Kira, representative of Starfleet, allowed Odo to link with the female changeling curing her of the disease even when the female changeling was prepared to commit genocide of the Cardassians in some meaningless suicidal attempt to make the victory pyrrhic for the Federation Allies.
There are obviously rogue elements within Starfleet that are supportive of Section 31. But the Federation and Starfleet does not sanction these actions and any such actions are rogue just as the actions of the rogue Jem Hadar are not condoned by the Dominion. Starfleet never was and never will be a party to attempted genocide.

No Starfleet did everything possible to block off the access to the cure. They supported 31 and stopped Miles and Bashir from getting the cure. Odo joined with the Female Changeling not because starfleet sanctioned it but because he wanted to. Starfleet was a party to genocide and they were a party to an attempted Ethnic cleansing during the Dominion War.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Bluesteel

The Donminion's first action was to kidnap federation citizens, destroy a federation capital ship AND to kill everybody on New Bajor - a bajoran colony - which is GENOCIDE. And all of this, unprovoked.

Then the Dominion tried to icite war between the Federation and the Tzencheti, started a klingon-cardassian war and then a klingon-federation war.

Then the Dominion gained power on cardassia and brought a massive invasion fleet into the alpha quadrant.

Then the Dominion tried to blow up the bajoran sun, destroying everything in the system - including Bajor, populated by BILLIONS OF BAJORANS - the word "genocide" is not enough to describe the atrocity the dominion attempted.

Then the Dominion attacked a federation space station.

And you think none of these actions can be described as "aggressive"?
Tell me, how exactly do you define the notion "aggressive"?