The Clone Wars and Rebels - A First Timer's Thread

[tomalak301]

I got up to the 4 episodes where Obi Wan Kanobi goes under cover to uncover a plot against Palpatine and that was a very good 4 episode run but I had a question. Maybe I'm confused about how the Force works, but wouldn't Duuku sense Obi Wan right away, even though he was disguised as the other guy? It just seems like while it's a good idea to go under cover it's meaningless for a Jedi to do it against a sith lord as strong as Duuku is.

Despite that though, I loved the third episode of this run with the Box. It felt very Hunger Games, and Obi Wan is a great sniper. Also the end where Palpatine says "What would the Galaxy be like without the Jedi" was very very eerie. Man Palpatine is a dick, but he's an amazing villain. One of the things I do love about this series is while the characters don't know what is to come, we as the audience do so when they give us Cues (Like the imperial march with Anakin or basically anything Palpatine says), it just adds a layer of complexity and dread to the series.

 

[Ithekro]

Sometimes you have to suspect that Palpatine and Dooku are in on the Jedi's plan on some level, given how they still had it setup for Anakin to face Dooku even with Obi-wan's meddling messing up Bane's operation for Dooku. Also the Force is sometimes inconsistent when it comes to sensing other force users. Like two can be in the same area and not notice, and other times one can be walking around and suddenly sense someone familiar is near. It might be Obi-wan is suppressing his signature in the Force (on a much lesser scale that Palpatine has been doing to the entire Jedi Coucil for decades), mixed with Dooku possibly not sensing for Jedi (or if Palpatine knows the Jedi are up to something, he might have given Dooku that "don't go looking for Jedi, just let them do their thing...and we'll be fine" treatment.)

 

[tomalak301]

Sometimes you have to suspect that Palpatine and Dooku are in on the Jedi's plan on some level, given how they still had it setup for Anakin to face Dooku even with Obi-wan's meddling messing up Bane's operation for Dooku. Also the Force is sometimes inconsistent when it comes to sensing other force users. Like two can be in the same area and not notice, and other times one can be walking around and suddenly sense someone familiar is near. It might be Obi-wan is suppressing his signature in the Force (on a much lesser scale that Palpatine has been doing to the entire Jedi Coucil for decades), mixed with Dooku possibly not sensing for Jedi (or if Palpatine knows the Jedi are up to something, he might have given Dooku that "don't go looking for Jedi, just let them do their thing...and we'll be fine" treatment.)

Watching this show I do sometimes forget that it is Palpatine that is pulling all the strings. In fact, I think this whole show could be an exercise in futility, which probably makes the whole Clone Wars the biggest con in any sci fi/fantasy property I've ever seen.

It also makes Palpatine coming back in Rise of Skywalker all the more insulting, mainly because Anakin killing him and redeeming himself with his son present was an amazing ending to this whole Skywalker saga.

 

[fireproof78]

Watching this show I do sometimes forget that it is Palpatine that is pulling all the strings. In fact, I think this whole should could be an exercise in futility, which probably makes the whole Clone Wars the biggest con in any sci fi/fantasy property I've ever seen.

It also makes Palpatine coming back in Rise of Skywalker all the more insulting, mainly because Anakin killing him and redeeming himself with his son present was an amazing ending to this whole Skywalker saga.

Palpatine's machinations are ridiculous. Anything that works in his favor will be allowed.

Also, his return in Rise was completely in line with this overpowered Sith Lord who anticipates everything and makes it happen in his favor. Him dying by Anakin's hand was a fluke, like Fett by Han's hand.

 

[tomalak301]

Palpatine's machinations are ridiculous. Anything that works in his favor will be allowed.

Also, his return in Rise was completely in line with this overpowered Sith Lord who anticipates everything and makes it happen in his favor. Him dying by Anakin's hand was a fluke, like Fett by Han's hand.

Even Palpatine has limits. He's not a god, no matter how hard he tries.

 

[fireproof78]

Even Palpatine has limits. He's not a good, no matter how hard he tries.

Even with Palpatine having limits after watching the Prequels and The Clone Wars and reading various books he is so overpowered his return in some way was inevitable. Irritating.

 

[Reverend]

I got up to the 4 episodes where Obi Wan Kanobi goes under cover to uncover a plot against Palpatine and that was a very good 4 episode run but I had a question. Maybe I'm confused about how the Force works, but wouldn't Duuku sense Obi Wan right away, even though he was disguised as the other guy? It just seems like while it's a good idea to go under cover it's meaningless for a Jedi to do it against a sith lord as strong as Duuku is.

The force doesn't work like that. Sensing a presence typically requires that 1) both parties have a strong pre-existing connection (like Master and Padawan.) 2) one of the parties is VERY powerful and not being shy about it, and/or 3) said party isn't actively working to obscure their presence.

Remember, Yoda and Palpatine sat across from each other MANY times without Yoda getting anything more than perhaps a vague sense of disquiet. Vader was face-to-face with Leia on three occasions without twigging who she was or even that she's force sensitive. He also had Luke in his sights and the closest he got was remarking that the force was strong with him...and not in a "he's a Jedi" way, more of a "he's a slippery bugger" way. It was only AFTER Luke and Vader formed a direct emotional connection that they were able to sense each other, where even Palpatine was ignorant of Luke's proximity: "...strange that I have not..."

Incidentally, the whole point of this arc is that it's meant to be a litmus test for Anakin, so Palpatine can gauge if he's powerful enough and ready to be turned yet; basically a dress rehearsal for the opening of RotS. In both instances, Palpatine probably told Dooku it was try and isolate and kill Anakin.
Putting the mercenaries though The Box had nothing to do with weeding out the best candidate, it was solely to identify which of them was a Jedi infiltrator that Dooku knew was coming because Palpatine told him so. Neither of them knew it'd be Obi-Wan, but that certainly played into the Sith's hands as it mostly just served to drive another wedge between the Council and the Chosen One.

 

[JD]

I just had a thought. Did Dooku know that Palpatine was Sidious? Pretty much every time see them interacting Palpatine had the hood up hiding his face. I know that was mainly trying to hide his face from the audience and the Seperatists who didn't know who he was, but could he have been hiding it from Dooku too?

 

[fireproof78]

I just had a thought. Did Dooku know that Palpatine was Sidious? Pretty much every time see them interacting Palpatine had the hood up hiding his face. I know that was mainly trying to hide his face from the audience and the Seperatists who didn't know who he was, but could he have been hiding it from Dooku too?

In the ROTS novel Dooku knew but I don't know if that was confirmed. I think he did, largely because Palpatine's order to kill Dooku wouldn't have as much weight.

 

[tomalak301]

Finished Season 4. One of my favorite things about Solo was seeing Darth Maul (The movie has been out for a few years, I would hope everyone has seen it). To finally see how he got resurrected and have his legs put together was insane. Those final four episodes, from the destruction of the night sisters to the rebirth of Darth Maul ended this season one an amazing note.

Other than the first 6 episodes of Season 4, it was a pretty good season. I would have liked to see more development for Ahsoka though, especially coming off the heels of the warning she got in the Mortis trilogy about leaving Anakin. The reason I'm watching this series is to see Ahsoka's development and I feel like most of this season kinda sidelined her. For that reason I think Season 3 was better but overall I'm loving the expansion of the Star Wars universe this Clone Wars series is providing. I think it would have been cool if during the duel between Kanobi and Maul, Duel of the Fates would have played. Also, I'm loving where they are taking Ventress. Abandoned by Dooku, rejoined the Nightsisters only to see them nearly wiped out and now she is helping her enemy from the first two seasons. It's a shame we never got a Ventress movie and I doubt Disney Plus would do more with her.

 

[fireproof78]

It's a shame we never got a Ventress movie and I doubt Disney Plus would do more with her.

She could always pop up in the Kenobi series. That way they avoid the whole Maul thing since it was so artfully done already.

 

[Reverend]

I just had a thought. Did Dooku know that Palpatine was Sidious? Pretty much every time see them interacting Palpatine had the hood up hiding his face. I know that was mainly trying to hide his face from the audience and the Seperatists who didn't know who he was, but could he have been hiding it from Dooku too?

I think so. I mean I get the feeling that he does, but I can't recall any instance where the connection is explicitly made apparent. Most of it just seems implicit in most of their interactions, with the clincher being Dooku's reaction when Palpatine urges Anakin to kill him. That's not a look of mortal terror, it's surprise and betrayal.

She could always pop up in the Kenobi series. That way they avoid the whole Maul thing since it was so artfully done already.

Umm...

Spoiler: Dark Disciple

Probably not so much, what with her dying during the clone wars. I mean I suppose a flashback isn't out of the question, but I have a hard time seeing them working that in organically. Particularly since DF has been very clear that he's opposed to brining in known characters just for the sake of it and needs there to be a compelling reason for such an inclusion and I suspect the Story Group has a similar attitude.

All that said, with the 'Bad Batch' show seemingly keeping TCW alive at LF animation, I hold out some hope of a standalone feature length animated adaptation of that book/unproduced arcs. WB have after all been putting out two or three straight-to-video DC animated movies for going on a decade, so it seems like a viable model.

 

[JD]

I loved Dark Disciple, and would be beyond thrilled to get a animated adaptation.

Finished Season 4. One of my favorite things about Solo was seeing Darth Maul (The movie has been out for a few years, I would hope everyone has seen it). To finally see how he got resurrected and have his legs put together was insane. Those final four episodes, from the destruction of the night sisters to the rebirth of Darth Maul ended this season one an amazing note.
Also, I'm loving where they are taking Ventress. Abandoned by Dooku, rejoined the Nightsisters only to see them nearly wiped out and now she is helping her enemy from the first two seasons. It's a shame we never got a Ventress movie and I doubt Disney Plus would do more with her.

Maul and Ventress's storylines throughout the last half of the show were some of my favorite parts of it.
@tomalak301, once you finish TCW are you going to continue on to Rebels? If you're looking for Ahsoka's arc, then there are some pretty major developments for her in that too.

 

[fireproof78]

Umm...

Meh, I hadn't read it yet. But, I fully applaud Filoni's attitude though I will be curious if it will continue forward.

 

[tomalak301]

@tomalak301, once you finish TCW are you going to continue on to Rebels? If you're looking for Ahsoka's arc, then there are some pretty major developments for her in that too.

I was planning to.

 

[JD]

There's also the novel that fills in some gaps between the shows, but that can easily be skipped.

 

[Xerxes82]

Did Dooku know that Palpatine was Sidious?

In the ROTS novel Dooku knew but I don't know if that was confirmed. I think he did, largely because Palpatine's order to kill Dooku wouldn't have as much weight.

The look on Dooku's face in RotS when Palpatine orders Anakin to execute him is really all we need to say that yes, Dooku know Palpatine was Sidious.

 

[tomalak301]

The Onderon arc was a great way to open the season. Yeah you had the Maul/Savage episode, but I feel like that was a left over from the end of Season 4. Onderon was a great 4 episode run (That felt like a movie) and it brought Ahsoka to center stage. I know that coming up she leaves the Jedi Order (Don't give me specifics) and I wonder if these episodes foreshadow that. Anakin keeps reminding her to not put feelings over purpose, but she gains respect for Steela and she knows Lux. When she angerly says to the council that they are already involved with this war, I couldn't help but feel like this was another step towards disenfranchisement towards the Jedi. As for Steela, what an amazing character that was. We see her struggle at first, but she turns into a natural born leader, and everyone respects her, especially the former king and Saw Gurrera (Who I was reminded was Forest Whitiker in Rouge One). I probably shouldn't have been shocked with her death to end the arc, but I was, especially when Ahsoka tried to save her and was shot in the process.

This was the kind of episodes I was missing in Season 4. Yeah during the whole Anakin/Obi Wan as slaves arc, Ahsoka came up with the plan, but she was still pretty much a side character. Considering what I know now about the character, this one helped push that development forward. If there are more episodes like that to come in Season 5, I will very much enjoy this season a lot.

I think the writers of this series are fans of Battlestar Galactica. This is the second "By Your Command" reference I've heard in TCW and it is not going unnoticed.

 

[Reverend]

Yeah you had the Maul/Savage episode, but I feel like that was a left over from the end of Season 4.

That episode was indeed originally meant to air elsewhere but was bumped to the start of the season by Cartoon Network as they felt Maul would be a better drawn for the season premier.
I forget which way around it was, but it was either left off of season 4 or meant to air later in season 5.

I think the writers of this series are fans of Battlestar Galactica. This is the second "By Your Command" reference I've heard in TCW and it is not going unnoticed.

Well Filloni did create Bo-Katan specifically for Katee Sackhoff so...

 

[JD]

The Onderon arc was a great way to open the season. Yeah you had the Maul/Savage episode, but I feel like that was a left over from the end of Season 4. Onderon was a great 4 episode run (That felt like a movie) and it brought Ahsoka to center stage. I know that coming up she leaves the Jedi Order (Don't give me specifics) and I wonder if these episodes foreshadow that. Anakin keeps reminding her to not put feelings over purpose, but she gains respect for Steela and she knows Lux. When she angerly says to the council that they are already involved with this war, I couldn't help but feel like this was another step towards disenfranchisement towards the Jedi. As for Steela, what an amazing character that was. We see her struggle at first, but she turns into a natural born leader, and everyone respects her, especially the former king and Saw Gurrera (Who I was reminded was Forest Whitiker in Rouge One). I probably shouldn't have been shocked with her death to end the arc, but I was, especially when Ahsoka tried to save her and was shot in the process.

This was the kind of episodes I was missing in Season 4. Yeah during the whole Anakin/Obi Wan as slaves arc, Ahsoka came up with the plan, but she was still pretty much a side character. Considering what I know now about the character, this one helped push that development forward. If there are more episodes like that to come in Season 5, I will very much enjoy this season a lot.

I think the writers of this series are fans of Battlestar Galactica. This is the second "By Your Command" reference I've heard in TCW and it is not going unnoticed.

If you're open to reading the novels and want to learn more about what happened to Saw between TCW, Rebels, and Rogue One, I highly recommend Catalyst and Rebel Rising. He's not the focus of the books, but they do give us a lot of development for him, and how he went from who we saw in The Clone Wars to who we saw in Rogue One.