The BORG, and the Lost potential

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by STEPhon IT, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    The Borg was the most enthralling villains created for Star Trek: The Next Generation; they were space zombies from the unknown, threatening to take over the Federation by their own terms of first contact. Assimilation became to the ultimate death for the crew and it happened to my beloved hero Captain Picard. Star Trek: Generations was what it was and passed, so the next film would be the Borg. Berman, Braga, and Moore gave the Borg a facelift by borrowing heavily on James Cameron's mythos for Aliens where these space zombies required a Queen to lead them.

    As much as I hated the idea, I had another thought where it's possible there could possibly be different species of Borg; some had a Queen, and others didn't require one and were more like the aliens we knew in TNG.
    One of the missed opportunities I thought Berman did was not continue the Borg elements in TNG movies. TOS had the Klingons within the shadows of their film run, and it was an understanding they were the Indians to our Cowboys. The Borg could've shared that new hat, and there could've been more movies where TNG had to deal with. One of my movie ideas: A Data or Lore subplot could emerge where either of them could create new androids to stop the threat and then something goes wrong? Or the Borg had figured out a way to move through space time from the Delta Quadrant to other worlds and Picard must stop them. My point is I don't believe the villains (Insurrection, & Nemesis) after First Contact were in the league of the Borg.

    So if you had a chance to write or develop a Borg movie after FIRST CONTACT, what would've been your direction for Star Trek's space zombies? Or what were the potential of the Borg you saw where the production should've explored and why?
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016
  2. Ghel

    Ghel Commander Red Shirt

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    This is tough for the simple reason that the Borg (like zombie films) are essentially an act of nature. Once the Enterprise learned to stop the Borg from hitting Earth multiple times, there is very little one can do to further "develop" the characters.
    The most dramatic way I could see using the Borg (sans-queen) would pretty much screw up the post First Contact Federation. In order to really continue with the Borg as threat, they would need to be at least partially successful. Ex. Even if the Borg don't take Earth, they successfully cut a swath through the Federation. Essentially, it forces the Federation to have to deal with a massive pandemic or natural disaster. Suddenly, Federation forces are forced to deal with this internal collapse as planets are taken, other Federation planets begin to panic as they lose confidence in the Federation's ability to protect them, and outside forces such as Klingons, Romulans, and Cardassians could see an opportunity to either further destabilize the UFP or even begin an outright land-grab (planet-grab?!?). This could pretty much lead to a much more dystopian vision as a desperate UFP is willing to make bigger sacrifices and/or less ethical choices to survive.
     
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  3. sumbuddyx

    sumbuddyx Captain Captain

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    I would never do another Borg film but I always wanted to rip-off *ahem* homage the episode "Death Knell" from Stargate SG-1. I'd a single redshirt officer stuck on a planet facing off against a single Borg drone, who was ruthless in it's pursuit of her. There'd be a small pre-warp township on the planet who are openly hostile to both the Starfleet officer and the Borg, even though she's trying to protect them. I'd handwave that the officer has some tech on her that the Borg needs to radio for help and so the Borg ignores the towns people. There'd be flashbacks with the woman interacting with the main crew and her own family where she doesn't fit in. At the end she kills the drone but is herself assimilated and taken over by the collective. The episode ends with her onboard a Borg ship as it flies away.
     
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  4. Crow T. Robot

    Crow T. Robot Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Honestly, I'd like to have seen what became of the Liberated, or whatever they called themselves (Hugh's group of, well, liberated Borg). While I didn't particularly like the stories involving them as a whole, if you're going to create that rabbit hole you might as well dive in and see what comes of it.

    But I agree, the Borg were overall a missed opportunity. However, that opportunity was lost long before First Contact. Once the Federation (well, okay, the Enterprise and then Voyager) was shown to repeatedly thwart them at every turn, the notion of them being an unstoppable force of nature kind of vanished real quick. Just made you wonder how the Delta Quadrant was so easily decimated by them, especially considering how many ultra advanced (or at least equivalent to the Federation's tech level) species existed there.
     
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  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Look at how the Borg were essentially declawed in Voyager, after being beaten/outsmarted multiple times. Overuse is the death of a good enemy.

    As for the Queen, I always see her as more of a 'nexus' than a leader, the embodiment of the Collective, which is why she is connected to all of them and can direct actions.
     
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  6. Paradise City

    Paradise City Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Borg are a victim of their own success after The Best Of Both Worlds. And the Hugh episode was a good episode but harmed the borg overall. The borg -- just like time travel -- got done to death.
     
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  7. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Zombie is a terrible description of the Borg. Zombies in fiction are thoughtless, and act independently (albeit since they all have the same drives, they seem to act in unison). The Borg are hyper-intelligent, all brought to the same level by the hive-mind. They act as one purposefully. They are heightened organisms melded with technology, networked at the speed of thought through subspace. Zombies are lesser beings, devoid of purpose, reacting slowly.

    The Borg as written would have been a dead end after STNG's BoBW. After that they had to be changed to engage the viewers...so "I, Borg" came into being, and "Descent". The Borg queen came about as a result of Locutus..giving a face to the hive necessary for audience identification.

    RAMA
     
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  8. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Borg should have been reserved for an Ultimate Menace status, out in deep space. After, at most, 1 or 2 encounters, it became necessary to dilute them as a threat.. Because otherwise that would have either assimilated or destroyed civilization.
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg were made too powerful. They had to be neutered the more they appeared, IMO. If utilized to their full potential, the Federation would be destroyed, the bulk of the Human race assimilated (with the few survivors scattered to the winds), and it would pretty much be the end of Star Trek. The post-Nemesis novels finally had the Borg stop playing around and launch a full-out offensive on the Federation with multiple Borg cubes, but while it was devastating, they still couldn't be allowed to seal the deal in the end...
     
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  10. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They were de-clawed in TNG, not Voyager. I do wish people would stop pretending otherwise.

    After that, they ran their course. The end.
     
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  11. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    So couldn't there be different species of Borg? One with a collective consciousness, and One who were dominated by a Queen, or race of liberated Borg. The Best of both Worlds... Hanna Montana style.:)
     
  12. Terok Nor

    Terok Nor Commodore Commodore

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    The Borg only really worked when taken out to play for special occasions. Once they started appearing regularly on Voyager the threat level went away and they were just another enemy race. The Borg should have only appeared in TNG's "Q Who" and "Best Of Both Worlds" 2 parter, the flashback in DS9's "Emissary", First Contact and kept to a minimum on Voyager ("Scorpion" and "Dark Frontier" should have been it in my opinion) aside from Seven Of Nine being part of the crew.
     
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  13. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    Very true but why was it necessary to have the Borg just be one species instead of being multiple of them. Even Voyager change castings for the Borg Queen from time to time. It's a point of view which could be explored.
     
  14. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Having different groups of the same species was the approach they took with the Kazon in VOY and with the Xindi in ENT. But with the Borg, the initial concept was one species with one mind--all are one and one are all. Take that initial uniqueness away, and you end up with a standard Trek baddy that can never truly win, no matter how insanely powerful their weapons are. A perfect description of what happened to the Borg in Trek...
     
  15. f14peter

    f14peter Commander Red Shirt

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    For all the aforementioned reasons, one would almost have to start with a clean slate, as it were. The Borg were originally so threatening because of their technology, individual mindlessness, apparent countermeasures for every tactic/weapon and because they were so frickin' relentless. That's all just moondust in the solar wind now, they're just not that threatening anymore.
     
  16. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    What would you do to make them threatening again?
     
  17. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Assimilation itself was the mistake with the borg and made them into zombies, rather than the socialist/capitalist monsters they were initially 'the ultimate consumer' 'hes not interested in you picard, he wants your ship' etc.
    Borg were born...Picard's assimilation as shown was the first and only time because they decided they wanted a face to deal with the federation, his.

    After that it's all a bit downhill, and much as I love First Contact, it's right there that the borg change totally into space zombies led by a necromancer queen. They even get religion later on, to all intents and purposes.

    Now....I am fine with both borg, and a bit of handwavium can bring the two together...but that is where the change happened. And as has been said, short of one or the other ceasing to be after a bloody fight, there's no way to use them like klingons in the TOS movies. Sadly. (Though I can think of interesting ways it could beasily done, but not suited to film and requiring the same kind of twist to them we got with chakotays first born girlfriend....He likes them with usb ports it seems. Hokoochimuyaaaaa)
     
  18. f14peter

    f14peter Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm thinking along the lines of not reinventing the Borg, but letting them fade off into history, as they were, and come up with a completely new malevolent entity with different threats, capabilities and strategies, or at the least significant variations on Borg techniques. Possibly less humanoid than th

    if I must stay with the Borg, they would have to acquire traits the current Borg don't possess. Maybe truly overwhelming numerical superiority, where no matter how fast they're taken down, there's always more rushing up behind them. Seems the most suspenseful action tales revolve around a relentless enemy, seemingly unstoppable no matter what you do. I'm not a fan of the "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" style, so as frightening as some people find the are-they-or-aren't-they? methodology, I personally wouldn't go that route.

    To make them truly more threatening, they would have to have a threat-capability that hasn't been seen before, or that the Federation can't overcome in the course of a movie. But there in lies the rub ... our heroes, by nature of story-telling, always find a way at the end. Genius script-writing would be needed to get the audience to believe that quite possibly the good guys won't win.
     
  19. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Commodore Commodore

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    I think eliminating the notion of a Borg Queen would be a start, and I would be interested in plot where the Borg would be interested in polluting the future instead of something lame as our past. Its was quite odd for the Borg to prevent humans from having Warp travel; it would have been a better idea for them to travel back to the industrial revolution or the age of the pioneers.
    I think assimilating an unknown future would have been an angle TNG had not explored. It would've been more plausible for a 24th century crew deal with Temporal time jargon than the so-called prequel crew, who appeared to be smarter and more savvy, on Star Trek: Enterprise.
    The Borg I once knew on TNG appeared to be race who would jump at the chance to search for higher levels of technology, something even beyond their reach and function, but the desire to assimilate would eventually be their downfall. I do think this would've been an interesting take on the Borg... or allowing the Borg to have sects within the races like Bumble bees, Wasps, or Hornets, and yellow jackets.
     
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  20. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg would've been more usable if they hadn't been to overpowered.

    I mean, look at the Daleks from Dr Who. They get re-used over and over, no one cares.
     
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