The best first officer in the Fleet?

[blssdwlf]

Spock and Uhura's stations are right next to each other, so I don't understand, unless you are suggesting that one shot in "The Doomsday Machine" is the actual layout, or that this hypothetical situation had the science station in a different place.

No, I misremembered. The station left of Spock could be a spot for a single-role first officer. In "The Cage" that station was the go-to station for viewing stuff and in regular series Spock frequently got up to view his hooded scanner that was next to that station.

I was going to compare this situation to Riker, but it seems you've already headed in that direction Seriously, though, as funny as that sounds, it worked on TNG for the drama; even though Riker has a chair it is kind of the same thing: his official role is to provide alternative plans to the captain and also do some personnel assignment work. This is not a criticism of Riker or his role on the show at all. It seems like this was in Roddenberry's idea for a new show.

What I was suggesting is that one of the roles in the pit is the "typical" first officer location and job for the person and would not be considered "dual role" on the hypothetical "typical ship."

There is a pattern: Number One sat there first; Kelso has some kind of important ship operations job; Sulu is one of the command crew and sits there; again in TMP Sulu is one of the main people to take command in the absence of the Captain and sits there; Data is Chief of Operations (and if the Galaxy Class did not make a separate chair for the first officer, the ranking officer below the captain would be sitting there, it seems).

The science station being a different place in TMP may be significant, as it is directly behind the captain, and has details not found on the other stations. Decker would be a bit of an unusual situation since there truly is an extra officer once Spock arrives. (Possibly an extra "staff" officer based on prior thread's discussions ) It seems as if the science station on this version of the Bridge is set up to do many things without the captain monitoring it, since he would have to look behind him and away from the screen. So perhaps the science station was to have possibly special significance, or possible less story significance in this new design. Does the Phase II version of the set, albeit incomplete, still have the stations moved to new locations?

The only confirmed XO's on the Enterprise for TOS was Number One and Spock which unfortunately has no pattern other than they were dual-role. Sulu is likely 4th in command after Scotty and since he is on the bridge sometimes when Scotty isn't he gets the conn. Both Scotty and Spock (3rd and 2nd in command) are not in the pit.

TMP/TWOK seemed to remove extra sitting stations but who sat in that station on the aft starboard side? Maybe that station could've been for an XO? Or all the standing stations are taken up?

 

[Holopat]

In TOS there are those two bridge stations to the left of Spock. Rarely filmed because usually the cameras shoot from there. That could be a station for the XO except that Spock sits at the Science station sensors and computer

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

The only confirmed XO's on the Enterprise for TOS was Number One and Spock which unfortunately has no pattern other than they were dual-role.

I see what you are getting at, but what I was trying to suggest is that to sit where Number One sits is the actual First Officer station, but that it is different on the Enterprise because of who Spock is. "Inside Star Trek" does show a diagram of the Bridge, calling the port position in the pit as "#1 or Helm," so I guess I've just always treated that as official, which leads to me seeing the pattern I described of that position being one for a person in a leadership role.

I am not saying that Scotty is not in line for command above Sulu: I was talking about the line of command of those officers who are already on the Bridge. Chekov is, I believe, briefly supposed to be in command when Kirk leaves the Bridge until Scotty can arrive (offscreen). I also interpret some lines given by Kirk as he leaves Uhura with armfuls of tribbles to be possibly leaving her in command, again maybe only until Scotty arrives or maybe not.

TMP/TWOK seemed to remove extra sitting stations but who sat in that station on the aft starboard side?

Plans I have seen call this the Bridge Engineering station. Interestingly, if we go by the theory that the two officers in the pit each oversee the functions of the stations on their side of the bridge, then those functions have changed, with the Navigator overseeing engineering, security, damage control and gravity (all operations-type jobs), and the Helmsman overseeing communications, environment, and weapons. I can't imagine these changes to the locations of stations were made by accident or without little-to-no-reason, I just can't figure out what the reasoning would be.

This concept art by Mike Minor does indeed show Spock's station moved to directly behind the Captain, even for Phase II, but I do not an in-universe reason, or a filming reason, for the change, although there must have been one: https://forgottentrek.com/the-motio...e//images/Enterprise-bridge-concept-art-3.jpg

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

People who might have to leave the bridge to hurry back to their own section because their skillset is needed there - that is, their job needs to be done elsewhere in an emergency situation - are those for whom it makes sense that they not be in the chain of command. If Kirk passes command to Spock, he can probably keep it (for a while) unless he's incapacitated. Spock doesn't need to hurry down to the science dept to look at a rock, petri dish, or test tube (usually).

If he gave command to McCoy or Scotty, all it takes is an emergency in engineering or sickbay (which in times of crisis there are) for their presence to be needed elsewhere, now, and the chair to change hands very quickly. You don't want command being passed like a hot potato from officer to officer if you can help it.

 

[Holopat]

Scotty is in the line of command. Chekhov, Uhura have also been given the con. Maybe Sulu. He should be, I just never remember in TOS (not the movies) him being given the con by Kirk, but it could and should have happened. I just don't remember it. But McCoy is not in the line of command. Having rank doesn't put you in the line of command. He's a specialist, not a command officer. (Why do I feel like Jack Aubrey being non plussed in the Aubrey/Maturin series when Maturin mistakes the roles of Master and Commander, a commissioned officer, with the ships sailing "Master", i.e. a warrant officer.)

I don't know if Starfleet considers a medical officer a warrant, NCO or a commissioned officer of some sort,. Services vary country to country and time period to present day, and I've never looked it up. But regardless of what type of officer McCoy is, he just isn't in the line of command.

 

[blssdwlf]

Kirk has said, "you have the conn" to Scotty in "A Private Little War", "A Piece of the Action", "The Tholian Web", "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched The Sky", "Wink of an Eye" and "The Way to Eden".
Kirk says, "you're in command" to Scotty in "Friday's Child" and "the Enterprise must not be taken" in "The Enterprise Incident".
Spock has said, "you have the conn" to Scotty in "The Mark of Gideon" and "you'll be in command" in "The Gamesters of Triskelion".

Kirk has said, "you have the conn" to Sulu in "Return to Tomorrow". In "Errand of Mercy", Kirk says to Sulu, "You will be in command...". In "Arena" Kirk has given Sulu orders to do anything to protect the Enterprise.

In "Catspaw", Kirk leaves Assistant Chief Engineer DeSalle in charge even though Chekov is present on the bridge.

I've not found any specific dialogue that puts Chekov or Uhura in charge though.

 

[Warped9]

The Aubrey/Maturin relationship in Master And Commander closely echoed the Kirk/McCoy relationship of TOS. Thats not surprising because it’s not a new idea because the Kirk/McCoy relationship echoed similar character interactions in film and literature before TOS.

Sulu has had the conn, more than once. Scotty a number of times, of course. Chekov had it once—likely briefly. And then there is Lt. DeSalle who has had it at least once. But Uhura should have had it, at least once, before Chekov given she outranked him. Yes, she is primarily Communications, but we have seen her man Navigation.

If you count TAS then Uhura has had command, when she assumed command in light of all the men being incapacitated in “The Lorelei Signal.”

 

[blssdwlf]

When did Chekov or Uhura ever have the conn?

 

[Holopat]

Kirk gave Chekhov command in JTB when he leaves the bridge after the battle. In spite of the fact that there are two one stripe gold shirted officers at helm and navigation (though Chekhov, after briefly taking the science station takes the weapons console again for the final shot). And Chekhov in this episode wears no stripe at all, and is 22 or 23.

I believe his exact words are "Mr. Chekhov, take over" as he (Kirk) heads for the turbolift clutching his side.

I'm pretty sure Uhura takes command in TOS at least once, but I'll have to think about which episode.

 

[Poltargyst]

Kirk gave Chekhov command in JTB when he leaves the bridge after the battle. In spite of the fact that there are two one stripe gold shirted officers at helm and navigation (though Chekhov, after briefly taking the science station takes the weapons console again for the final shot). And Chekhov in this episode wears no stripe at all, and is 22 or 23.

I believe his exact words are "Mr. Chekhov, take over" as he (Kirk) heads for the turbolift clutching his side.

I'm pretty sure Uhura takes command in TOS at least once, but I'll have to think about which episode.

I don't recall Uhura ever having command in TOS, so I'll be interested in what you come up with.

 

[Poltargyst]

People who might have to leave the bridge to hurry back to their own section because their skillset is needed there - that is, their job needs to be done elsewhere in an emergency situation - are those for whom it makes sense that they not be in the chain of command. If Kirk passes command to Spock, he can probably keep it (for a while) unless he's incapacitated. Spock doesn't need to hurry down to the science dept to look at a rock, petri dish, or test tube (usually).

If he gave command to McCoy or Scotty, all it takes is an emergency in engineering or sickbay (which in times of crisis there are) for their presence to be needed elsewhere, now, and the chair to change hands very quickly. You don't want command being passed like a hot potato from officer to officer if you can help it.

I assume the situation with McCoy is like what we saw in TNG where Crusher and Troi had to qualify for command before they could take the conn. I assume McCoy hasn't done that.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Yeah, I doubt he'd be interested. Advice giving is more his style. Unless you're a patient in sickbay.

 

[Holopat]

I don't recall Uhura ever having command in TOS, so I'll be interested in what you come up with.

I've recently moved and all my TOS blu-rays are packed, so it might take me a while to find it. From what I remember, she takes the center seat at one point.

 

[Poltargyst]

I've recently moved and all my TOS blu-rays are packed, so it might take me a while to find it. From what I remember, she takes the center seat at one point.

She's never shown actually sitting in the command chair even in The Lorelei Signal where we know she took command. It would have to be an off-screen thing.

 

[Holopat]

The Aubrey/Maturin relationship in Master And Commander closely echoed the Kirk/McCoy relationship of TOS. Thats not surprising because it’s not a new idea because the Kirk/McCoy relationship echoed similar character interactions in film and literature before TOS.”

I think it also echos the Kirk -Spock relationship as well, as Maturin is a reasoning man (at least at times). And his cluelessness of certain naval things is very Spockish re some "human" things.

The part of the film Master and Commander, where Aubrey is torn between going after the chase or taking Maturin to land for surgery is very haunting. Reminiscent of the Kirk/Spock friendship. And even Amok Time a little where Aubrey chooses his friend over his duty. It's a great scene.

I love the Hornblower series and the Aubrey Maturin series both. I've read the others, Kent, Bolitho, etc., but only the first two really speak to me.

 

[blssdwlf]

Kirk gave Chekhov command in JTB when he leaves the bridge after the battle. In spite of the fact that there are two one stripe gold shirted officers at helm and navigation (though Chekhov, after briefly taking the science station takes the weapons console again for the final shot). And Chekhov in this episode wears no stripe at all, and is 22 or 23.

I believe his exact words are "Mr. Chekhov, take over" as he (Kirk) heads for the turbolift clutching his side.

I'm pretty sure Uhura takes command in TOS at least once, but I'll have to think about which episode.

Thanks! "Take over" is the phrase I was missing on my search.

In "Journey To Babel", Kirk says to Chekov, "Mister Chekov, take over." Note that the original intention was, "I'll turn command over to Scotty and report to my quarters".
In "The Deadly Years", Kirk says to Sulu, "Take over, Mister Sulu. Steady as she goes." Note that Chekov is sitting next to Sulu so Sulu appears to be higher on the chain of command than Chekov.
In "The Tholian Web", Scotty says to Sulu, "Take over, Mister Sulu. I'll be in the transporter room."

Uhura is ordered to "take over navigation" in "Balance of Terror" and "The Naked Time". But haven't found anything for her to take temporary command of the Enterprise...

 

[Holopat]

Thanks! "Take over" is the phrase I was missing on my search.


Uhura is ordered to "take over navigation" in "Balance of Terror" and "The Naked Time". But haven't found anything for her to take temporary command of the Enterprise...

Maybe that's what I'm remembering.

 

[Henoch]

Based on the color change of her uniform early in the first season, Uhura tried her hand in the command division, but apparently it wasn't to her liking. In-universe, I assume she didn't acquire/maintain the command qualifications, and therefore, she could not be left in charge of the bridge.

 

[Holopat]

Based on the color change of her uniform early in the first season, Uhura tried her hand in the command division, but apparently it wasn't to her liking. In-universe, I assume she didn't acquire/maintain the command qualifications, and therefore, she could not be left in charge of the bridge.

If that were true the same could be said of Spock. Or Scotty. I always figured if you qualified in both you could wear either color.

 

[Henoch]

If that were true the same could be said of Spock. Or Scotty. I always figured if you qualified in both you could wear either color.

In both of these cases, they did maintain their command qualifications. It's all about qualifications, just not the color of your uniform.