The best first officer in the Fleet?

[Mres_was_framed!]

Ohh yeah. No one was called out as Kirk's first officer in WNMHGB. That is wild!

The book "Inside Star Trek" claims Spock became that in second pilot as essentially a way to fit his character into stories. That's in a book of course, though Spock as the only character wearing both a stripe and the "greener" gold sweater like Kirk, instead of the "pink" gold like Kelso would seem to indicate that Spock was the first officer, although it seems that in the second pilot Kelso has some operations-type role or something like that. EDIT: Trying to look at it like CONN and OPS from alter shows, it seems like in the second pilot the starboard side is CONN and the port side is OPS.

 

[blssdwlf]

The book "Inside Star Trek" claims Spock became that in second pilot as essentially a way to fit his character into stories. That's in a book of course, though Spock as the only character wearing both a stripe and the "greener" gold sweater like Kirk, instead of the "pink" gold like Kelso would seem to indicate that Spock was the first officer, although it seems that in the second pilot Kelso has some operations-type role or something like that. EDIT: Trying to look at it like CONN and OPS from alter shows, it seems like in the second pilot the starboard side is CONN and the port side is OPS.

IIRC the whole "Conn" and "Ops" designations wasn't in TOS. It was simply "Helm" and "Navigation" but yeah the positions appear to be flipped in the pilots and regular series. Spock does seem to be by Kirk's side a majority of the time like a first officer and science officer in WNMHGB.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

IIRC the whole "Conn" and "Ops" designations wasn't in TOS. It was simply "Helm" and "Navigation" but yeah the positions appear to be flipped in the pilots and regular series. Spock does seem to be by Kirk's side a majority of the time like a first officer and science officer in WNMHGB.

Yeah, CONN and OPS are not a part of the TOS terminology, but they are a concept from TNG I don't might borrowing for reasons that I said in some other thread at some point, the short version being that it seems like either station can actually steer the ship and fire weapons, yet each seems to also be a centralized station for controlling/monitoring the functions on its own side of the bridge.

Assuming that Spock is a "special" case being both first officer and science officer, the impression I get is that, on a "typical" ship, the three ranking officers would be the ones in the pit, with the port side officer, "helm" being the "Number One" and the lead person for engines, environment and alert status, while the person on the starboard side, "navigator" would be in charge of science, navigation, and weapons. Communications is in the back directly behind the captain and to me either goes with the starboard stations or is semi-independent of them.

The aligns with Number One being in the pit in "The Cage," and with Data being a second officer and Chief of Operations at one of the three main stations in TNG.

Going be the design of the bridge and the sweater colors, it seems like Kelso would be the Chief of Operations and the first officer if Spock were not there. As to Gary Mitchel being a helmsman, maybe he is the actually navigator and Kirk is yelling "Helmsmen, lateral power!" and not "Helmsman lateral power!" so that "helmsmen refers to both the officers at those stations?

 

[blssdwlf]

Yeah, CONN and OPS are not a part of the TOS terminology, but they are a concept from TNG I don't might borrowing for reasons that I said in some other thread at some point, the short version being that it seems like either station can actually steer the ship and fire weapons, yet each seems to also be a centralized station for controlling/monitoring the functions on its own side of the bridge.

I should of added that "Conn" in the old naval sense was used in TOS. Kirk would tell an officer on the bridge that the person "has the conn" which gives them control of the ship. This role has a much higher authority and responsibility than TNG's "Conn" for a flight control/helm officer.

Assuming that Spock is a "special" case being both first officer and science officer, the impression I get is that, on a "typical" ship, the three ranking officers would be the ones in the pit, with the port side officer, "helm" being the "Number One" and the lead person for engines, environment and alert status, while the person on the starboard side, "navigator" would be in charge of science, navigation, and weapons. Communications is in the back directly behind the captain and to me either goes with the starboard stations or is semi-independent of them.

The aligns with Number One being in the pit in "The Cage," and with Data being a second officer and Chief of Operations at one of the three main stations in TNG.

Going be the design of the bridge and the sweater colors, it seems like Kelso would be the Chief of Operations and the first officer if Spock were not there. As to Gary Mitchel being a helmsman, maybe he is the actually navigator and Kirk is yelling "Helmsmen, lateral power!" and not "Helmsman lateral power!" so that "helmsmen refers to both the officers at those stations?

Hmmm, I wonder if in TOS if it was normal for first officers to have dual roles. We'll never know since TOS only presented us with one ship's crew to follow. But, hypothetically, if Spock wasn't the first officer and it was not a dual role then where would the first officer sit? Perhaps the station between Spock and Uhura?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

But, hypothetically, if Spock wasn't the first officer and it was not a dual role then where would the first officer sit? Perhaps the station between Spock and Uhura?

When the first officer needs to sit down , the "Defense and Weapons" station seems handy enough. That's probably his spot on ships with a single-role FO.

 

[Metryq]

But, hypothetically, if Spock wasn't the first officer and it was not a dual role then where would the first officer sit?

Why would such an XO have a bridge station at all? There's no reason for an XO to have an office anywhere near the bridge, but we might imagine it on B or C deck, unless that space is used for bridge support gear of some kind.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Why would such an XO have a bridge station at all? There's no reason for an XO to have an office anywhere near the bridge, but we might imagine it on B or C deck, unless that space is used for bridge support gear of some kind.

I take back my previous post. When the first officer is on the bridge, his spot would be the captain's chair. When the captain is in it, the first officer isn't needed on the bridge.

 

[blssdwlf]

TOS avoided this issue with having a dual-role XO which is why it is a hypothetical question. We know naval ships have separate CO and XO seats on the bridge so it did beg the question of where a single-role XO would sit on the TOS bridge.

I take back my previous post. When the first officer is on the bridge, his spot would be the captain's chair. When the captain is in it, the first officer isn't needed on the bridge.

Why would such an XO have a bridge station at all? There's no reason for an XO to have an office anywhere near the bridge, but we might imagine it on B or C deck, unless that space is used for bridge support gear of some kind.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Is there some lost story that explains why Spock fills both roles? Did he fill in for someone who died/got injured, etc, only to wind up doing his second job permanently either through being assigned, or simply doing it so well that Kirk never thinks to fill the second position with another?

 

[Henoch]

TOS avoided this issue with having a dual-role XO which is why it is a hypothetical question. We know naval ships have separate CO and XO seats on the bridge so it did beg the question of where a single-role XO would sit on the TOS bridge.

I thinks he just stands around near the captain's chair getting in the way of the yeoman bringing coffee and reports to the captain. When not getting under foot, he's probably walking the ship chatting with lazy crewmen.

 

[blssdwlf]

Is there some lost story that explains why Spock fills both roles? Did he fill in for someone who died/got injured, etc, only to wind up doing his second job permanently either through being assigned, or simply doing it so well that Kirk never thinks to fill the second position with another?

None aired in TOS so it is a mystery. In "The Cage", the XO (Number One) was already stationed on helm or navigation so she was dual-role.

In WNMHGB it is most likely Spock was already dual-role but then again Mitchell could've been dual-role as well. It wasn't clear in the episode. In "The Corbomite Maneuver" it seemed to me that Spock had the conn so he probably was dual-role XO if watching the series in production order.

In TMP we seem to get the same dual-role scenario where single-role XO Decker becomes dual-role XO and science officer once their replacement science officer dies in a transporter accident.

 

[Henoch]

In TMP we seem to get the same dual-role scenario where single-role XO Decker becomes dual-role XO and science officer once their replacement science officer dies in a transporter accident.

After Spock arrives and takes over as the science officer, what does Decker really do on the ship as XO? As near as I can see, it is to argue against every command order that Kirk makes , then sit in his chair whenever Kirk leaves the bridge.

 

[Metryq]

Is there some lost story that explains why Spock fills both roles?

Kirk noticed Spock's screensaver (the Moire thingy) running all the time, and knew that Spock was idling during useful CPU cycles. So they gave him more to do.

 

[blssdwlf]

After Spock arrives and takes over as the science officer, what does Decker really do on the ship as XO? As near as I can see, it is to argue against every command order that Kirk makes , then sit in his chair whenever Kirk leaves the bridge.

LOL. Decker isn't your average XO as Kirk kicked him out of the CO spot and made him the XO. Decker had a lot of anger issues towards Kirk.

But it would appear that the TMP bridge was never designed to have both the CO and XO present. See Decker constantly standing behind Kirk or hovering over someone's station? The XO is like McCoy where they can stand around but not really do anything. At least the TOS bridge had a lot more stations where an extra could sit down and do stuff.

 

[Holopat]

I'd be curious to know if the Captain and the XO stand a watch, or if they have subordinates normally taking the con, and they show up when things get interesting, they encounter something, they close on a mission objective, whatever....

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'd be curious to know if the Captain and the XO stand a watch, or if they have subordinates normally taking the con, and they show up when things get interesting, they encounter something, they close on a mission objective, whatever....

I think that's right. There is always an officer (not the captain) in charge of the bridge, and the captain is also present whenever he wants to be. Also, he gives standing orders like "You call me to the bridge the instant another vessel is sighted."

 

[Ronald Held]

I assumed Kirk took first shift, and Spock second. Spock acted as Science officer on first shift.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

I should of added that "Conn" in the old naval sense was used in TOS. Kirk would tell an officer on the bridge that the person "has the conn" which gives them control of the ship. This role has a much higher authority and responsibility than TNG's "Conn" for a flight control/helm officer.



Hmmm, I wonder if in TOS if it was normal for first officers to have dual roles. We'll never know since TOS only presented us with one ship's crew to follow. But, hypothetically, if Spock wasn't the first officer and it was not a dual role then where would the first officer sit? Perhaps the station between Spock and Uhura?

Spock and Uhura's stations are right next to each other, so I don't understand, unless you are suggesting that one shot in "The Doomsday Machine" is the actual layout, or that this hypothetical situation had the science station in a different place.

I thinks he just stands around near the captain's chair getting in the way of the yeoman bringing coffee and reports to the captain. When not getting under foot, he's probably walking the ship chatting with lazy crewmen.

After Spock arrives and takes over as the science officer, what does Decker really do on the ship as XO? As near as I can see, it is to argue against every command order that Kirk makes , then sit in his chair whenever Kirk leaves the bridge.

I was going to compare this situation to Riker, but it seems you've already headed in that direction Seriously, though, as funny as that sounds, it worked on TNG for the drama; even though Riker has a chair it is kind of the same thing: his official role is to provide alternative plans to the captain and also do some personnel assignment work. This is not a criticism of Riker or his role on the show at all. It seems like this was in Roddenberry's idea for a new show.

What I was suggesting is that one of the roles in the pit is the "typical" first officer location and job for the person and would not be considered "dual role" on the hypothetical "typical ship."

There is a pattern: Number One sat there first; Kelso has some kind of important ship operations job; Sulu is one of the command crew and sits there; again in TMP Sulu is one of the main people to take command in the absence of the Captain and sits there; Data is Chief of Operations (and if the Galaxy Class did not make a separate chair for the first officer, the ranking officer below the captain would be sitting there, it seems).

The science station being a different place in TMP may be significant, as it is directly behind the captain, and has details not found on the other stations. Decker would be a bit of an unusual situation since there truly is an extra officer once Spock arrives. (Possibly an extra "staff" officer based on prior thread's discussions ) It seems as if the science station on this version of the Bridge is set up to do many things without the captain monitoring it, since he would have to look behind him and away from the screen. So perhaps the science station was to have possibly special significance, or possible less story significance in this new design. Does the Phase II version of the set, albeit incomplete, still have the stations moved to new locations?

 

[David cgc]

In the Seekers novels, the First Officer on the Endeavour cycled between operating different stations on the bridge, IIRC, weekly, but I don't think it was suggested this was standard policy, just something she liked to do to keep sharp on all the aspects of operating the ship and to not have to do the Decker-style (or McCoy-style) hovering around without a seat.

 

[Holopat]

Seems to me Scotty usually takes command when Kirk and Spock are unavailable. I remember Kirk telling Chekhov to take command at least once as well as Uhura at least once. I’m sure Sulu took command at times though it isn’t memorable to me.