It's been edited.
The Admiral Clancy Character
- Thread starter JConn
- Start date
Thank you."Nemesis".
Picard could’ve been Admiral and Commandant of Starfleet Academy after “Coming of Age” (TNG) if he’d wanted to.
To me, Admiral Clancy is like "Threshhold."
Is the existence of an F-bombing Admiral ludicrous? Absolutely. Do I want this hilarious character gone? Absolutely not.
Is the existence of an F-bombing Admiral ludicrous? Absolutely. Do I want this hilarious character gone? Absolutely not.
You clearly haven't been around many military officers.
The best ones raise profanity to the level of high art!
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Indeed. My uncle was well versed in the art of swearing as a non-commissioned officer and dill instructor in the US Army. He saved the swearing for "special occasions" which usually involved trainees doing something incredibly stupid. The other Marines I have worked with have swearing down to an every day rhythm, including learning multiple languages just to curse in them.You haven't clearly been around many military officers.
The best ones raise profanity to the level of high art!
A cursing Starfleet admiral is probably the most believable facet of Star Trek yet put to scene.
Given the presented data points she is still below average for most enlisted personnel much less officers.
Trek needs more censor bleeps. It'd be funnier than the actual swearing!
Isn't that basically what Lower Decks does?
Yup.
Starfleet Security, actually, not Starfleet Intelligence.
And Clancy remaining as head of Starfleet would depend on a lot of factors, including whether or not an investigation demonstrates that more than one Zhat Vash agent infiltrated Starfleet and how long and under what circumstances they so infiltrated it. It wouldn't be fair for her to be forced to resign if Oh infiltrated Starfleet before Clancy was CNC, especially if Clancy took responsible action the moment it became clear that Oh was not Federation-loyal.
Fair has got nothing to do with it.
The admiralty is by definition packed with alpha types.A political bear pit.
Her judgement would be called into question and in a position like hers that is enough.
I harp on about it quite a bit but the whole doppelgänger/infiltration trope is ridiculously overdone in Trek.
Starfleet is an organisation that has just fought the most devastating war in its history against a race of freakin’ shapeshifters and yet their internal vetting systems are looser than that of your average fast food joint.
The admiralty is by definition packed with alpha types.A political bear pit.
Her judgement would be called into question and in a position like hers that is enough.
I harp on about it quite a bit but the whole doppelgänger/infiltration trope is ridiculously overdone in Trek.
Starfleet is an organisation that has just fought the most devastating war in its history against a race of freakin’ shapeshifters and yet their internal vetting systems are looser than that of your average fast food joint.
It does in a supposedly progressive society like the UFP.
I mean, we know that Nedar, operating under the "Oh" alias, was already embedded within Starfleet in 2385 when she was responsible for orchestrating the Mars Attack -- presumably long before Clancy's tenure as CNC. So right away, Clancy would be able to counter that she wasn't the one who let the wolf into the hen house. Couple that with a thorough investigation of Nedar's infiltration and of Starfleet leadership, and I think she might be okay. Lot of people might think of her as the one who cleaned a dirty house instead of the one who got hoodwinked.
I mean, is it really any worse than Kim Philby almost becoming head of MI6, or Michael Flynn being appointed Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency for two years?
An absolutely vital question to ask.
Given that we know that the Romulans had withdrawn from most foreign affairs before contact with the Enterprise-D in late 2364, my theory is that the Zhat Vash saw the footage of Data sitting at the ops station on the Enterprise bridge, got totally freaked out over the realization that the Federation was starting to develop sentient artificial intelligences and grant them rights, and sent Nedar to infiltrate Starfleet. So my theory is that she infiltrated Starfleet some time during or after TNG Season 2 (2365). That would give her a maximum of 20 years to build herself up in the Starfleet hierarchy to the point where she could pull off the Mars Attack in 2385.
And the earliest known canonical date at which she was Chief of Starfleet Security was 2390, when she ordered the murder of Coppelian Ambassador Beautiful Flower on pain of the remote destruction of the USS ibn Majid. That is likely prior to Clancy's tenure as CNC.
So, for my money, it's entirely plausible that Nedar's infiltration of Starfleet wasn't even the fault of Clancy's predecessor as CNC. It could have happened multiple CNCs ago, as long ago as 34 years before PIC S1.
Excellent question.
Minor quibble: I would consider Nedar's infiltration to be more of a Zhat Vash mission than a Tal Shiar mission. Though of course it's likely that the Zhat Vash used their position within the Tal Shiar to appropriate Tal Shiar resources in support of her mission, and to operate it in the Tal Shiar's name if Tal Shiar operations were ever audited by the Senate or the Continuing Committee.
I especially consider it unlikely that Nedar's infiltration was a legitimate Tal Shiar operation (in the eyes of the Romulan government) given that she instigated the Mars Attack with the explicit intention of preventing the UFP from evacuating Romulans from their doomed homeworld. The Zhat Vash might well consider the destruction of Romulus and fall of the Star Empire to be an acceptable cost to prevent Ganmadan. It seems far less likely that those Tal Shiar leaders not part of the Zhat Vash would so agree.
I mean, what constitutes "behavior out of the ordinary?" It's pretty important to remember that you only know what to look for after the fact in a situation like this.
What would that show? "Unification III" confirmed that Vulcans and Romulans are the same species. Which makes sense, because they only separated about 2,000 years prior to the TNG era -- far too little time to speciate. You might as well hope that doing a blood test on Humans from Afro-Eurasia in 1492 would demonstrate that they're separate species from Humans from the Americas; the gene pools may have separated 32,500 years earlier (far longer than the Vulcan and Romulan gene pools separated), but that's not enough time to become separate species.
Does everyone forget that the Romulans got a spy in under the guise of a Vulcan ambassador in TNG? How many heads rolled with that?
So....”it was like this when I got here”??!
My point about the Dominion war was not made in vain.Real world this for a minute.
If Starfleet hadn’t done a root and branch review of security measures during and in the wake of a war against a shapeshifting enemy then that is incredible incompetence.Incredible as in not credible.
It’s not as if the Romulans were new to this infiltration business.
A lot of this is down to writers with a “wouldn’t it be cool if..”ideas.
My point about the Dominion war was not made in vain.Real world this for a minute.
If Starfleet hadn’t done a root and branch review of security measures during and in the wake of a war against a shapeshifting enemy then that is incredible incompetence.Incredible as in not credible.
It’s not as if the Romulans were new to this infiltration business.
A lot of this is down to writers with a “wouldn’t it be cool if..”ideas.
But blood tests would do dick all to help against Romulan infiltrators, whom had been de facto allies for a time in the Dominion War. So, this idea that somehow they could runaround on a flushing mission would turn in to the very witch hunt Admiral Sati was accused of doing, and potentially ruined the lives of other officers in the process. In addition, as noted above, the Romulans are extremely good at this infiltration business, as evidenced by the Vulcan ambassador who was in deep cover for a time. So, Vulcan's security measures are apparently extremely poor too.
The writers are not going "wouldn't it be cool if?" They are building off what was presented as potential storylines within Trek itself.
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