That's why they call it the blues (Paths of Disharmony SPOILERS)

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Interesting book. Very slow start (but then again, lots of Alan Dean Foster novels have very slow starts, and I'm as big a Humanx Commonwealth fan as I am a ST fan), but by the end, things are happening almost too fast.

Seemed to have a few places where the editing could have been better: particularly at least one or two spots where a line of dialogue gets rather implausibly repeated.

LOVED Picard's Centrist manifesto that is the first full paragraph on page 134. I've never been able to formulate the Centrist credo nearly so well.

Did anybody else notice that in this novel, Andor seems to be, in large part, a metaphor for current American politics?

 

[Thrawn]

^ Yes, I did, and I thought that was rather brilliantly done, actually. Usually metaphors like that seem to beat you over the head, but I thought this was subtle and effective.

 

[the_wildcard]

^
Nice job, even if Ward isn't the most concise writer. The last two Typhon Pact books redeemed the first two for me. Yes, they've crossed over a bunch of random series to a point where the individual narrative threads are starting to lose their sense of distinctiveness and, yes, it seems like they have no idea where they're *going* with all of this. But both of the books were good stories, and new political explorations for the Trek universe. Not bad, considering the recent editorial chaos.

Hey Thrawn, that's interesting. I actually enjoyed the first two books a bit more than the last two. But I agree that new political theme plays a huge role in both of the last books, albeit I think with a bit more deadlier consequences in Rough Beasts. Overall I also saw that Andor succeeding was inevitable. I was hoping that Thirishar would not resign but that was also inevitable.

Hopefully they make sense of where all of the Typhon Pact stories are going!

 

[crotig]

I finished it yesterday. Took me a bit longer to get through than your average trek book as it did start a bit slow. I also sometimes have a bit of trouble wading through anything that has a we'd-rather-die-than-contaminate-our-cultural-identity vibe or religious overtones. I find it ludicrous.

I was a bit dissapointed with the fact that it basically said that project Vanguard ended with everything being buried in a box for a hundred years. Apart from what was said about some of the advancements made from it, I find it hard to believe that the federation would be so shortsighted as to just stop after scratching the surface of the knowledge contained in the meta-genome because it might be dangerous especially knowing other hostile races also had samples of it. I never bought the whole burying project Genesis either though. Once a technology has been proven to work it generally provides motivation for rivals to figure it out either as a weapon or a terraforming tool. To just shelve it and hope no one else figures it out seems a bit head in the sand.

Andor seceeding, meh!. I never really took to the Andorian thread in trek lit. I'll be interested to see what happens next with the Typhon Pact though.

 

[Christopher]

I was a bit dissapointed with the fact that it basically said that project Vanguard ended with everything being buried in a box for a hundred years. Apart from what was said about some of the advancements made from it, I find it hard to believe that the federation would be so shortsighted as to just stop after scratching the surface of the knowledge contained in the meta-genome because it might be dangerous especially knowing other hostile races also had samples of it. I never bought the whole burying project Genesis either though. Once a technology has been proven to work it generally provides motivation for rivals to figure it out either as a weapon or a terraforming tool. To just shelve it and hope no one else figures it out seems a bit head in the sand.

If this were an original universe, sure, you'd have a good point. But we know for a fact that Genesis isn't used in the 24th century, nor are any of the other radically transformative technologies the meta-genome could've made possible (beyond limited applications like medical regeneration). The books have to conform to what the canon has established. So really, what did you expect would happen? We knew going into Vanguard that, one way or another, most of this technology would not be developed to its full potential. Plausible or not, that's the outcome the books have to follow.

 

[David cgc]

I just finished it myself (damn this backlog of books!). I'd actually imagined suggesting that Beverly should fire a request up the ladder to Starfleet Command when she was discussing the mysterious genetic breakthrough with Dr. Tropp, in the hopes of deliberately triggering a security flag, so she could find out where it came from once SI came knocking at the door. Close enough to what happened to amuse me.

There were a couple of nitpicks I had, like the fact that the terrorists detonating the Enterprise's warp core while it was in orbit of their own capital probably wouldn't have been the best thing for the people on Andor. I was hoping someone would point that out either while he was holding the ship hostage, or later in order to argue for the callousness of the movement. And this is a little petty, but Beverly's tricorder reads Konya "as a healthy human" after she treats him for his reaction to the tranquilizer dart. That might not have been encouraging, since he's a Betazoid. I mean, reading as a healthy human would be the edge of death for a Vulcan.

I was really amused by the reference early in the novel on how "Starfleet analysts" were sharply divided on how or if the Typhon Pact was a threat. I had the feeling I'd read a few of those discussions right here. I thought it was a little odd that Trys and Konya never formally broke up before she started seeing Taurik, but that's probably just the inevitable result of not seeing any of the nothing that came in between the last story and this one.

As for the question of what the loss of Andor says about the wider Federation, I think the Andorian ambassador (and, apparently, the Tholians) overestimate how much it might be seen as sticking it to the Earth-Man. I can only imagine the peoples of Bajor, Betazed, Deneva, Risa, Qo'nos, and others all turning toward the Andorians and expressing only one thought, in unison; "What a bunch of whiners." You think Betazed didn't wish there were more ships around when the Dominion came calling? Or that it wouldn't have been nice if some low-grade Genesis-style trickery could be used to completely restore Qo'nos to blue-skied glory instead of the smoky hell-hole they ended up settling for after decades of old-fashioned terraforming and cleanup?

Not to mention the fact that secessionist sentiment was successful because it was essentially the only issue that two suddenly-popular blocs had in common; "The Federation hasn't done enough for us," and "The Federation has done too much to us." The terrorists mentioned that they were still going to fight against using the Shedi biotechnology in fertility treatments (apparently hoping that, by doing nothing, Andorians will suddenly begin pumping out babies again by sheer good fortune). If anything, things are going to become even more bitter on the ground there. Combine that with whatever negative effects leaving the Federation has (being subject to tariffs and import/export regulations with all their trading partners since they're now a foreign power, a likely increase in piracy near Andor since their space won't be patrolled by Starfleet ships, and so on), and the Andorians will be begging to be let back in by the end of the century.

 

[Christopher]

There were a couple of nitpicks I had, like the fact that the terrorists detonating the Enterprise's warp core while it was in orbit of their own capital probably wouldn't have been the best thing for the people on Andor.

Not unless it was in a pretty low orbit. Then it could cause a damaging EMP in the atmosphere. The gamma radiation would be absorbed by the atmosphere but re-emitted as ultraviolet which could reach the surface, and could create ozone-destroying nitrogen oxides. However, if it were in a higher orbit, the radiation would be more attenuated by the time it reached the atmosphere and wouldn't do as much damage.

And this is a little petty, but Beverly's tricorder reads him "as a healthy human" after she treats him for his reaction to the tranquilizer dart. That might not have been encouraging, since he's a Betazoid. I mean, reading as a healthy human would be the edge of death for a Vulcan.

By "him," you mean Rennan Konya, right? Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Then again, Betazoids don't seem to be as physiologically different from humans as Vulcans are, aside from their brains.

I thought it was a little odd that Trys and Konya never formally broke up before she started seeing Taurik, but that's probably just the inevitable result of not seeing any of the nothing that came in between the last story and this one.

I'm not sure they were ever formally a couple.

 

[David cgc]

And this is a little petty, but Beverly's tricorder reads him "as a healthy human" after she treats him for his reaction to the tranquilizer dart. That might not have been encouraging, since he's a Betazoid. I mean, reading as a healthy human would be the edge of death for a Vulcan.

By "him," you mean Rennan Konya, right? Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. Then again, Betazoids don't seem to be as physiologically different from humans as Vulcans are, aside from their brains.

Whoops. You know why that is? I went to check that I was going to spell Konya's name right, and then forgot that I hadn't actually written it in the post after I looked it up.

 

[rfmcdpei]

Not to mention the fact that secessionist sentiment was successful because it was essentially the only issue that two suddenly-popular blocs had in common; "The Federation hasn't done enough for us," and "The Federation has done too much to us." The terrorists mentioned that they were still going to fight against using the Shedi biotechnology in fertility treatments (apparently hoping that, by doing nothing, Andorians will suddenly begin pumping out babies again by sheer good fortune). If anything, things are going to become even more bitter on the ground there. Combine that with whatever negative effects leaving the Federation has (being subject to tariffs and import/export regulations with all their trading partners since they're now a foreign power, a likely increase in piracy near Andor since their space won't be patrolled by Starfleet ships, and so on), and the Andorians will be begging to be let back in by the end of the century.

That seemed to be what the outgoing presider expected; I agree.

It's not in the Federation's interest to make things difficult for Andor, mind. An amicable secession on the Federation's end would do much to speed the date of Andor's return. Behaving out of spite towards the Andorians wouldn't exactly mobilize the moderates.

Andor's importance to the Federation seems to have declined from the 22nd and 23rd centuries, substantially because of the Andorians' reproductive problems I'm willing to bet. The Tholians still did quite well in undermining the Federation, here, in a sort of interesting destructive altruism.

 

[Christopher]

Andor's importance to the Federation seems to have declined from the 22nd and 23rd centuries, substantially because of the Andorians' reproductive problems I'm willing to bet.

Indeed, in the IDW Alien Spotlight: Andorians story, which I believe Paths of Disharmony references, it's stated that Andor(ia) has largely withdrawn from participation in the Federation as of 2371.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Andor's importance to the Federation seems to have declined from the 22nd and 23rd centuries, substantially because of the Andorians' reproductive problems I'm willing to bet.

Indeed, in the IDW Alien Spotlight: Andorians story, which I believe Paths of Disharmony references, it's stated that Andor(ia) has largely withdrawn from participation in the Federation as of 2371.

Paths of Disharomny certainly mentioned the True Heirs of Andor as one of the extremist factions, enthusing about "liberated Andor".

 

[Sci]

As for the question of what the loss of Andor says about the wider Federation, I think the Andorian ambassador (and, apparently, the Tholians) overestimate how much it might be seen as sticking it to the Earth-Man. I can only imagine the peoples of Bajor, Betazed, Deneva, Risa, Qo'nos, and others all turning toward the Andorians and expressing only one thought, in unison; "What a bunch of whiners."

I completely agree.

Except to point out that Qo'noS is not a Federation world, but, rather, the capital of the Klingon Empire, an independent foreign state.

 

[David cgc]

I threw it in at the last second because they'd had a planetary disaster, received Federation assistance, and could've conceivably gotten far more help if the Federation had been willing to dip into the Vanguard Files to see what dark magic could be applied to their situation, so it was a more direct comparison.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The terrorists mentioned that they were still going to fight against using the Shedi biotechnology in fertility treatments (apparently hoping that, by doing nothing, Andorians will suddenly begin pumping out babies again by sheer good fortune). .

They sound like the anti-Federation group during the 2271-2282 part of Mere Anarchy, they didn't last in power that long on that bit of idiocy.

As for the question of what the loss of Andor says about the wider Federation, I think the Andorian ambassador (and, apparently, the Tholians) overestimate how much it might be seen as sticking it to the Earth-Man. I can only imagine the peoples of Bajor, Betazed, Deneva, Risa, Qo'nos, and others all turning toward the Andorians and expressing only one thought, in unison; "What a bunch of whiners."

I completely agree.

Except to point out that Qo'noS is not a Federation world, but, rather, the capital of the Klingon Empire, an independent foreign state.

Well if you want to be technical Ty'Gokor is actually the current capital of the Klingon Empire after the Borg trashed Qo'nos.

 

[chelly]

I think the people of Deneva, and Risa would be more annoyed. (their planets did get destroyed).


I have to say of the three books I was able to read this is the one I liked the most. Though I thought the first two were good. I haven't had the chance to read the Sisko/Spock book. (interlibrary loans a bit slow)

 

[DS9Continuing]

Also just finished this. I'd rank it my third most enjoyed out of the four, with RBoE at the top, followed by ZSG, followed by PoD, and StF at the bottom. Yikes, that one was rough going.

I tended to hurry through Shar's scenes in Mission: Gamma. Speaking of which, was he this aggressive in the DS9 books? I remember him as a mopey kid.

I didn't really see him as especially aggressive, or at least, no more than he usually was in DS9. He always had the mopey-but-could-snap-if-provoked thing going on.

I have to say, though, that Shar really didn't have a great deal to do in the story, especially considering he was on the cover. His function was basically just to say, "Hi, here's what I've been up to," and support the more active and decisive characters. He didn't really seem to do much. But then I guess you could say, what could he do from the position he was in? Considering the scale of the issues, probably not much.

No his presence on the cover was mostly to excite the DS9-R readers and make it obvious to others that this story would involve Andor even if they didn't recognize the individual character. Much like Tuvok's appearance on the cover of Seize the Fire was so that potential readers would say, "Hey look, there's a guy from TNG and a guy from VOY on that cover. I like both of those. I should read that book," even if Tuvok himself wasn't a focus of the book. Sales-based decisions don't always coincide with story-based decisions. Damn, I can waffle tonight.

Regardless of the optimism/pessimism discussion, I think it's hard to deny that this book is a perfectly logical outgrowth of Vanguard, Destiny, and the DS9-Relaunch Andor storylines; I think it was brilliant, how it incorporated all those elements without requiring reading any of them to understand what was going on.

That's one of my favourite parts of the ST-lit experience, so yes, I'm also glad it featured so well here.

But on the other hand, I can also empathise with the point of view that says such cross-pollination tends to lead to the various lines becoming ill-defined and all of a mush.

So basically, swings and roundabouts.

Seemed to have a few places where the editing could have been better: particularly at least one or two spots where a line of dialogue gets rather implausibly repeated.

That is something that seems to be creeping into the novels more and more lately. Like, for example, Konya becoming a human for a paragraph, as already mentioned. At the top of the book, a shen was referred to as a he, which defies convention. Keru had lost his partner to the Borg, not the Gorn. Cethente's name was spelled wrong and a character changed names mid-scene in Sword of Damocles. Things like that.

Obviously I understand that things slip through the cracks, especially in a time of editorial uncertainty such as Pocket has endured, and if one person is now doing the job that used to belong to two or three, these things will happen. We're probably lucky they don't happen more than they do. But still, it jumps out when it does happen.

Did anybody else notice that in this novel, Andor seems to be, in large part, a metaphor for current American politics?

Very much so, and it was disturbingly effective. I lived in the US for 8 years, then lost my visa. I went through quite some trials to try to return to the US. Now, looking at the political situation, I'm glad I'm not there, and I don't intend to put any effort into trying to return. That place scares me. While some aspects of the political and social situation in the US are progressing quite nicely, the hysterical response that this victory of common sense has engendered seems worse than ever.

But that's another tangent.

One thing I was thrilled by was Shar finally saying what I'd been dying to smack into them for the whole book:

"Did it never occur to you that Uzaveh may have already shown us the way to save ourselves, rather than sit around and wait for salvation to be handed to us?"

As a resolutely non-spiritual person, I despise when people use "God" as some catch-all excuse for their behaviour (see above re: American politics). Not only saying that "God will save us" but actively working against anyone else trying to save us is the most contemptible and self-destructive bollocks. IF there is a God (and I really don't care one way or the other whether there is or there isn't), then he "saves us" by giving us the intelligence and imagination to solve our own problems, not just sit on our laurels and expect divine intervention. Human(oid) inventiveness IS divine intervention.

So apparently, this novel stirred more in me than I thought it did.

 

[Therin of Andor]

This hangs on my wall...


"Paths of Disharmony" cover slick by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

 

[Rosalind]

^ very nice, Ian!

 

[Therin of Andor]

You iz blue with envy?

 

[Thestral]

So, I know it's not normally kosher to post in a thread without reading it in its entirety, but I don't want my reaction significantly changed by other people's reactions. Spoilers below of course - though at this point, everybody already knows them I'm sure.

So, first I want to say that I think Dayton wrote an excellent novel. I'm still not terribly familiar with the newer Ent-E crew, but I really liked them in this book and I cared more about them than I have in the others. Chen continues to be my favorite of the new group, and her subplots were always fun to read. I was glad to see La Forge get some stuff to do - sure in the end he was still not the one to solve the problem set before him, but I enjoyed his parts nonetheless. Worf as first officer really clicked for me, and it's good to see him and Choudhury continue to grow closer. I must say, Worf is either the most successful, or the most unlucky, character in Trek when it comes to romance. Which is funny considering his reputation.

I wanted to start with praising Dayton for the writing because I don't think I've ever been angrier when reading a Trek novel. I was disappointed with some of what happened in Rough Beasts... but not really angry like I ws in this book. I mean almost throwing the book across the room angry - and not at the writing or the decisions that were made for the characters, but the characters themselves; specifically the villains of the piece (and ocassionally the allies of the Ent crew).

I read through feeling like the Treishya, and especially their cultish leader, are perhaps the most despicable, worthless pieces of shit to ever crawl out of the sewers of a Federation planet. I wanted them all dragged out and shot or kicked out of an airlock for their arrogance, closedmindedness and self-righteous manipulation of Andor. The fact that after a violent terrorist attack and deaths that are clearly attributable to their actions people in the government still openly supported these scum and the idea that such a group ended up "winning" absolutely galls me. True, I have some serious plot questions about the effectiveness of their methodology - how convenient that they know La Forge's own self-designed system better than he himself, how convenient that they so effectively took control of Enterprise - but the thrill when Chen and Taurik took Enterprise back made up a lot for that. And to some extent. I was also very disappointed with the Presider's seeming acceptance of her defeat, of course.

And of course I find the idea that the Typhon Pact is just another supranational state that can peacefully coexist with the Federation preposterous now. Most of the individual parts? Sure. But the Tholians after this book? Hell no.

I don't like throwing around the term "traitor" and often roll my eyes when it's used in the non-legal sense. I'm really glad the Federation allows its members to secede. I'm very, very angry (much more than I expected) that it happened due to the machinations of an obviously self-serving, self-aggrandizing organization that is happy to change its fundamental objection from "polluting the blood of Andor" () to "the Federation didn't help us enough" in order to suit its racist/speciesist point of view.

So... yeah. Not the best of the Typhon Pact for me, but quite a good book with great characters both good and evil.

I shall now read the rest of the thread.