That's why they call it the blues (Paths of Disharmony SPOILERS)

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ So how much crow do you think the Andorians will eat if (when?) they come crawling back to the Federation with their antennae between their legs?

If this does not occur, I at least hope Andor doesn't join the Typhon Pact. The Federation would of course be unable to stop them (since the Federation has no say in what non-member worlds do), but at the same time, having a Pact member that close to Federation space would be an unacceptable security risk. It's a lose-lose situation...

 

[DigificWriter]

I finished this book about a week ago or so, and have to say that it's found itself a place on my listing of my favorite TNG-related novels (although, admittedly, said list isn't actually that long). I picked it up on a whim after finishing Vanguard: Precipice (primarily because it had Shar on the cover and because, thanks to another thread here, I'd learned that it peripherally dealt with the Tholians, the Shedai, and the Taurus Meta-Genome), and then couldn't put it down.

As someone who hadn't read any of the previous 'TNG Relaunch' novels, this was my first exposure to the Enterprise E's brand-new, post-Nemesis crew, and so several characters were quickly able to catch my attention, most notably T'ryssa Chen and Jasminder Choudhury (I really want to know how to say her name); based on the descriptions of them and their respective roles in PoD, they remind me a lot of two former Enterprise D crewmembers, Tasha Yar and Ro Laren (T'ryssa also reminds me a bit of Jadzia). I also liked the attention that the novel paid to setting up or describing interpersonal romantic relationships for T'ryssa, Choudhury (who would've ever thought that Worf would let himself go again emotionally after what happened with Jadzia?), and Geordi.

Speaking of Worf, the role of First Officer really suits him, not only because it lets him assert himself in typical Worf fashion, but also because it's a great return to all of the things that made him such a great addition to/asset for the crew of Deep Space Nine (particularly given the fact that his tenure on the station resulted in a huge 'black mark' on his career).

I also enjoyed the interaction between Picard and Crusher, and between Picard and his son (Picard as a father and family man is something that I certainly wouldn't have expected, given his history, but is definitely a welcome 'change' for the character); it was also great to see him playing the role of diplomat again, even if his efforts on that front ultimately failed.

It was also great to see Shar again (I haven't yet read Andor: Paradigm, his last pre-PoD appearance), and I really liked the subtle changes in his personality. I do wish he wouldn't have resigned his comission, but completely understand why he did.

Andor leaving the Federation was a ballsy move (both from an in-universe standpoint and from the standpoint of it being ballsy for Dayton to do), and I really liked it; it'll be interesting to see what, if any, future ramifications arise from the situation.

Getting to hear from/see the Tholians again was awesome, especially coming off of having finished Vanguard, and I really enjoyed their role in the story. Personally, I think they ought to be used a lot more frequently than they seem to have been in the past, since they're an extremely fascinating culture, and one whose motives are hard to pin down.

One final thought: PoD, in addition to being an excellent book in its own right, has given me some impetus to read the 'TNG Relaunch', provided I can get my hands on all of the books (if I can't, I'll try to read as much of it as I can), because I really want to see more of/hear more from the Enterprise E's 'new' crew.

 

[MNM]

As for the question of what the loss of Andor says about the wider Federation, I think the Andorian ambassador (and, apparently, the Tholians) overestimate how much it might be seen as sticking it to the Earth-Man. I can only imagine the peoples of Bajor, Betazed, Deneva, Risa, Qo'nos, and others all turning toward the Andorians and expressing only one thought, in unison; "What a bunch of whiners."

I completely agree.

You know, I said last year, when someone posted their synopsis of what the book seemed to be about (maybe october/november time) in a thread on this very forum that the Andorians sounded whiny. and I got criticised and acused of dismissing the book.

 

[Christopher]

Jasminder Choudhury (I really want to know how to say her name)

Basically "Jass-min-der Chowd-ree" or "Chowd-h'ree".

based on the descriptions of them and their respective roles in PoD, they remind me a lot of two former Enterprise D crewmembers, Tasha Yar and Ro Laren (T'ryssa also reminds me a bit of Jadzia).

Normally, Jasminder's about as unlike Tasha Yar as you can get, with a very serene, spiritual personality. However, she's been having a very rough time since Destiny...

 

[DigificWriter]

Thanks for the pronunciation guide on Jasminder's name, Christopher. Re: her personality, I'll just have to take your word for it at this point because after having just finished Gods of Night (my second exposure to her character), I'm still seeing a lot of similarities between her and Tasha and Ro (although she does seem more like Ro in GoN and more like Tasha in PoD, I have to say).

 

[Therin of Andor]

I got criticised and acused of dismissing the book.

Sure, 'cos you hadn't read it yet. IIRC, you posted that before I'd even been involved in the beta read.

One of the things I wanted to see was that the various Andorian players be readily identifiable as individuals (physical descriptions, tones of voice, antennae types, etc), and I think Dayton did that wonderfully. He added some subtle bits that really help. Heather Jarman did some of this, too, with "Andor: Paradigm". So much harder to do on paper, and I never felt ENT did enough on individual differences (with most aliens). I was worried "Paths of Disharmony" would boil down to angry blue men in a room bitching.

But "whiny", sure. Read "Spock's World", also about a group departing the UFP, and you'll hear lots of whiny Vulcans.

 

[Thestral]

^ So how much crow do you think the Andorians will eat if (when?) they come crawling back to the Federation with their antennae between their legs?

I don't want them with their antennae between their legs. I want them to realize they've been duped by people who are only concerned with their own power into making a mistake and come back with pride to an alliance they helped build in the first place.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't want them with their antennae between their legs.

That novel comes in a plain brown envelope.

 

[Thestral]

"Not everybody keeps their genitals in the same place"?

 

[Therin of Andor]

"Not everybody keeps their genitals in the same place"?

I'll never tell.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ So how much crow do you think the Andorians will eat if (when?) they come crawling back to the Federation with their antennae between their legs?

I don't want them with their antennae between their legs. I want them to realize they've been duped by people who are only concerned with their own power into making a mistake and come back with pride to an alliance they helped build in the first place.

Pride? Careful. Pride led to this secession in the first place. Too much of it, and the likelihood that Andor will ever want back into the Federation goes way down.

Oh well. Whether it be one way or the other, I just hope we don't have to wait too long for Andor's return (if indeed the writers are planning it). I don't know how realistic it could be to hope it will happen - after all, it'll only be if the writers want it. Although if the Xindi, for example, can go from vicious killers who want to wipe out humanity (ENT) to...whatever they are now, and the Klingons can go from enemy to friend to enemy and then friend again, I guess there's hope here as well.

 

[Thestral]

^ Eh, I maybe should've said "pride in an alliance..." instead of "to an alliance..."

"Not everybody keeps their genitals in the same place"?

I'll never tell.

That's fine by me.

 

[rfmcdpei]

^ So how much crow do you think the Andorians will eat if (when?) they come crawling back to the Federation with their antennae between their legs?

I don't want them with their antennae between their legs. I want them to realize they've been duped by people who are only concerned with their own power into making a mistake and come back with pride to an alliance they helped build in the first place.

Pride? Careful. Pride led to this secession in the first place. Too much of it, and the likelihood that Andor will ever want back into the Federation goes way down.

That, and the understandable fear that the Andorians would become extinct, and--I'd say--understandable anger with the Federation once the Andorians found out that the technology to save their species from the fate of the Aenar was available a century ago. I'm certainly not a Treishya fan, but were I Andorian I'd be unhappy with the polity that might have let my species go extinct but for help from another that had the same data.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't want them with their antennae between their legs. I want them to realize they've been duped by people who are only concerned with their own power into making a mistake and come back with pride to an alliance they helped build in the first place.

Pride? Careful. Pride led to this secession in the first place. Too much of it, and the likelihood that Andor will ever want back into the Federation goes way down.

That, and the understandable fear that the Andorians would become extinct, and--I'd say--understandable anger with the Federation once the Andorians found out that the technology to save their species from the fate of the Aenar was available a century ago. I'm certainly not a Treishya fan, but were I Andorian I'd be unhappy with the polity that might have let my species go extinct but for help from another that had the same data.

Which really when you think about it comes from the Federation pissing itself everytime there might be a danger from someone misusing a technology.

 

[Thestral]

I'm certainly not a Treishya fan, but were I Andorian I'd be unhappy with the polity that might have let my species go extinct but for help from another that had the same data.

Which might make sense - except that the only people who had access to that data didn't know it existed in the first place.

 

[David cgc]

Well, they might've, if the Andorian's problem was known to one degree or another in the 2260s, or if there were any Andorians on the Vanguard research team. They'd be the ones to talk to about the decision not to apply it in any case (except for Genesis).

 

[JD]

I think there have been Andorian characters on Vanguard.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think there have been Andorian characters on Vanguard.

Several, including the current Intelligence Officer.

 

[rfmcdpei]

I'm certainly not a Treishya fan, but were I Andorian I'd be unhappy with the polity that might have let my species go extinct but for help from another that had the same data.

Which might make sense - except that the only people who had access to that data didn't know it existed in the first place.

Oh, this is substantially a non-rational response on the Andorians' behalf, but it's an understandable one. Infertility is a major problem among humans, emotionally and otherwise, and the belief that a country doesn't have enough children to sustain the population can drive all sorts of profound and/or nasty emotional reactions.

The Andorians know that intelligent species can become extinct: they've been active enough in interstellar exploration to learn about civilizations which dwindled away into nothingness, they know what happened to the Aenar, and the below-replacement fertility the Andorians have been experiencing for the past century (at least) is something that the Andorians really don't want. As T'Ryssa said in Heather Jarman's novella, the Andorians have reengineered their entire civilization to try to slow down the decline and it still isn't enough. Shar's bondgroup, particularly favoured by early access to advanced reproductive technology, had one child and were hoping to try for a second one; two children to replace four parents is below-replacement by any means.

Were any of the people around in 2382--Bacco, Akaar, Crusher--responsible for hiding the Shedai data? No. It's certainly not obvious that someone or someones wanted to hide the data that could help reverse Andorians' demographic trends so as to create a smaller, more manipulable Andorian civilization as the Treishya alleged.

Would Andorians be justified in being upset that, for whatever reason, technical data acquired in the 2260s that could have been used to save their species was classified badly and hidden for a century? Yes. Someone screwed the pooch on this one.

Well, they might've, if the Andorian's problem was known to one degree or another in the 2260s, or if there were any Andorians on the Vanguard research team. They'd be the ones to talk to about the decision not to apply it in any case (except for Genesis).

There were Andorians on the team, and the Aenar subspecies was close to becoming extinct thanks to the reproductive species it shared with the more numerous Andorians.

Even if the Andorians weren't at all forthcoming, there would have been signs. A simple look at public-domain demographic indicators--at what ages Andorians became parents, how many children did they have, what was Andorian reproductive medicine like, what the total population was--would have indicated that something was up.

 

[Christopher]

As T'Ryssa said in Heather Jarman's novella, the Andorians have reengineered their entire civilization to try to slow down the decline and it still isn't enough.

Huh? T'Ryssa Chen hadn't been introduced yet when Paradigm was written (and that's a short novel, not a novella). Do you mean Thriss?