That's why they call it the blues (Paths of Disharmony SPOILERS)
- Thread starter Deranged Nasat
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I saw that aspect of the book as an effective contrast with the now-broken Andorian culture and its increasingly tattered state.
A reminder of what the Andorians are losing as their population crisis worsens. Already they've redefined their highly passionate, family-oriented culture so it's in service to ever more cooly practical concerns - necessities of genetics and reproduction. They've tried to dovetail the former into the latter by making the modern bondgroup the subject of intense, devotional celebration, but it's pretty clear that that convention's been coming under strain. Plus the Borg have of course accelerated the extinction timetable considerably by destroying so many bondgroups, Andor is politicaly divided too...I thought the warmth and bonding and romance that features so heavily in the Enterprise scenes was an effective and well-crafted reflection on the troubles Andorian culture is experiencing."Paths of Disharmony", with the Enterprise crew demonstrating that harmony which is being lost down Andorside.
Christopher, thanks for the plotting history on T'Ryssa. Under 100 pages to go.
I saw that aspect of the book as an effective contrast with the now-broken Andorian culture and its increasingly tattered state.
"Paths of Disharmony", with the Enterprise crew demonstrating that harmony which is being lost down Andorside.
It was more of a joke than anything, that's much deeper than I look in the ST novels that I read LOL.
But I do see your point....and I also agree.
Before and after War time there's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on!!
Don't come a knockin' if the Nacelle's are a rockin'!
I've been reading over this stuff as I've been away for a while...
ProtoAvatar... wow.
You repeatedly accused people of "not reading" what you wrote and "that you already proved that" in terms of your statements. You have proven nothing. The comedy of your posts are that you're providing nothing but speculation.
Nowhere have you posted "evidence" of the UFP's imminent collapse. Sure we've had instability and secession, but that doesn't mean the entire thing is going to collapse. It just means there is instability and secession.
Many others have pointed out that Andor leaving isn't as big of a deal as it seems. They are one world. Symbolically it is a big deal. Having a member world leave would send a crazy message, but it wouldn't cripple an organization that has 154 others. Unless they were the headquarters for every critical piece of Federation power (which they are not), it isn't as heavy of an incident as you are implying.
When you say things like "1 could easily turn into 10", it is you who are speculating. And that is nowhere near fact as you claim it to be. Sci has already dismantled your use of the word "trend", so I'll just skip that. He also took apart your statements about sentiment on Vulcan and the opinion there about secession.
But what I found most humorous were your statements about the UFP "losing the Cold War". I guess you can keep score, but with a conflict (hot or cold) this young how can you say one is winning? Any student of the Soviet-US Cold War could give you examples of Soviet might and how it looked, at times, as if the Soviets were "winning". How did that turn out for them? Did the US collapse in the face of adversity and an upstart regime? Quite the contrary.
The worst argument you make is about the relative strength of the UFP as defined by the Borg invasion. You are arguing your opinion as fact. It is your OPINION that the UFP is weaker than Delta Quadrant species because of how they are resisting. You argue that some civilizations have fought the Borg for centuries, but since the UFP took such a hit they are weaker. This is insanely flawed. For starters, the UFP survived. So by your own definition, they are AT LEAST on par with all the other species that still exist. But what really cripples your argument is that you have no real insight into how the Borg fight against other species has gone. Would you say the El Aurians are better off than the UFP? They were first attacked over 100 years ago (in universe context) and still survive. But they are an endangered species, surviving nowhere near the strength they once were. Arturis' species resisted for centuries, yes. But eventually they fell. All but around 20,000. How many were there before? In the context of humanity, there are currently close to 7 billion on earth. If we were wiped out down to 20,000 it wouldn't be an amazing success story. It'd be decimation. And to put that 20,000 into context, there were 15,000 colonists alone on Tau Cygna V. If ALL humans in the UFP except those were eliminated by the Borg, would you call they a successful resistance? You have no idea how many of species 116 existed before they fell, therefore you have no true measure of "success" to compare their struggle to the UFP. And that is in addition to you arguing one species against an entire political organization. 65 billion dead is astounding. But how many were there to start with? Several hundred billion? Over a trillion? You can't argue these things because you have no real evidence, no facts or number. You're using your opinion and then labeling it as fact.
So as I read your posts, I find it comical you are claiming to argue with fact and then completely ignoring people who ask you to elaborate. You're armed with opinion and false conclusions, not fact.
ProtoAvatar... wow.
You repeatedly accused people of "not reading" what you wrote and "that you already proved that" in terms of your statements. You have proven nothing. The comedy of your posts are that you're providing nothing but speculation.
Nowhere have you posted "evidence" of the UFP's imminent collapse. Sure we've had instability and secession, but that doesn't mean the entire thing is going to collapse. It just means there is instability and secession.
Many others have pointed out that Andor leaving isn't as big of a deal as it seems. They are one world. Symbolically it is a big deal. Having a member world leave would send a crazy message, but it wouldn't cripple an organization that has 154 others. Unless they were the headquarters for every critical piece of Federation power (which they are not), it isn't as heavy of an incident as you are implying.
When you say things like "1 could easily turn into 10", it is you who are speculating. And that is nowhere near fact as you claim it to be. Sci has already dismantled your use of the word "trend", so I'll just skip that. He also took apart your statements about sentiment on Vulcan and the opinion there about secession.
But what I found most humorous were your statements about the UFP "losing the Cold War". I guess you can keep score, but with a conflict (hot or cold) this young how can you say one is winning? Any student of the Soviet-US Cold War could give you examples of Soviet might and how it looked, at times, as if the Soviets were "winning". How did that turn out for them? Did the US collapse in the face of adversity and an upstart regime? Quite the contrary.
The worst argument you make is about the relative strength of the UFP as defined by the Borg invasion. You are arguing your opinion as fact. It is your OPINION that the UFP is weaker than Delta Quadrant species because of how they are resisting. You argue that some civilizations have fought the Borg for centuries, but since the UFP took such a hit they are weaker. This is insanely flawed. For starters, the UFP survived. So by your own definition, they are AT LEAST on par with all the other species that still exist. But what really cripples your argument is that you have no real insight into how the Borg fight against other species has gone. Would you say the El Aurians are better off than the UFP? They were first attacked over 100 years ago (in universe context) and still survive. But they are an endangered species, surviving nowhere near the strength they once were. Arturis' species resisted for centuries, yes. But eventually they fell. All but around 20,000. How many were there before? In the context of humanity, there are currently close to 7 billion on earth. If we were wiped out down to 20,000 it wouldn't be an amazing success story. It'd be decimation. And to put that 20,000 into context, there were 15,000 colonists alone on Tau Cygna V. If ALL humans in the UFP except those were eliminated by the Borg, would you call they a successful resistance? You have no idea how many of species 116 existed before they fell, therefore you have no true measure of "success" to compare their struggle to the UFP. And that is in addition to you arguing one species against an entire political organization. 65 billion dead is astounding. But how many were there to start with? Several hundred billion? Over a trillion? You can't argue these things because you have no real evidence, no facts or number. You're using your opinion and then labeling it as fact.
So as I read your posts, I find it comical you are claiming to argue with fact and then completely ignoring people who ask you to elaborate. You're armed with opinion and false conclusions, not fact.
in the west.
It's much more common to make up a name in China or Japan. names will often mean something instead of named after something or someone. even if that meaning is just "third son" or "second daughter".
^Well, yes, which is why what I actually wrote was, "Well, technically, everyone's named after a dead person, unless they're given a totally new made-up name." I don't appreciate having my quotes edited to alter their apparent meaning. You make it sound as if I ignored the possibility of an exception when I in fact made a point of explicitly acknowledging that possibility.
^ because new made up name is not an exception, it might be in the west, but you can't say everyone, implying the world over. Now, if 95% of the world population is named after someone, then you can say "everyone's named after a dead person, unless... ", but that's not the case, it's the case in the west, not the east.
I should've included the full quote, but I would made the same argument.
I should've included the full quote, but I would made the same argument.
^Whatever. Just in the future don't misrepresent my actual words.
Anyway, even if I chose my words imprecisely, my point was to offer a counterargument to some people's reported objection to the idea of naming a child after a deceased person.
Anyway, even if I chose my words imprecisely, my point was to offer a counterargument to some people's reported objection to the idea of naming a child after a deceased person.
Just a thought -- very close to the end of "Paths of Disharmony" and I've enjoyed it very much -- but it's rather bizarre to read about fictional unrest on Andor and look up at the TV and see very real unrest and extreme violence in Egypt. Ironic.
Yes.
Gee...thanks...LOL.
I just finished the book....while it started off as a real snoozer to me, it ended with quite a bang!
I think they type-set of this book was causing my eyes to get tired, it all just seemed squished.
I was wondering when the Typhon Pact would come into play, and I'm glad that we did ses what could be the start of something huge!
Just finished it. Not really surprised due to nonspoiler posts. I wonder what else the SI and Section 31 are doing to combat the mechanations of the Typoon Pact?
Finished it earlier today.
Had been spoiled but knew it was likely anyway.
I think in the wake of this, Operation Vanguard should be carefully reviewed for declassification and both Federation/Starfleet and civilian scientists should be working on finding cures to diseases, a new Project Genesis (without protomatter) and any number of things to help the Federation recover from the Borg Invasion.
Kinda busy at the moment so don't have time to review nearly 200 posts.
Had been spoiled but knew it was likely anyway.
I think in the wake of this, Operation Vanguard should be carefully reviewed for declassification and both Federation/Starfleet and civilian scientists should be working on finding cures to diseases, a new Project Genesis (without protomatter) and any number of things to help the Federation recover from the Borg Invasion.
Kinda busy at the moment so don't have time to review nearly 200 posts.
Just finished a few moments ago. I avoided the book at first because of its setting: I've never been able to enjoy relaunch Andorians, and I tended to hurry through Shar's scenes in Mission: Gamma. Speaking of which, was he this aggressive in the DS9 books? I remember him as a mopey kid. I read the book in two sittings and enjoyed the character growth -- especially the Picard-Chen dynamic, and Picard's own ponderings of family life and the admiralty. Someone mentioned Andoria's decision in another thread here at the BBS, but I still felt the emotional shock of it and am divided between hoping they come to their senses and wishing them ill. So whiny. I'm only partway through the Vanguard series but enjoyed how Ward incorporated it -- I realized he was making allusions to it during that Crusher scene with the genome, and liked seeing Akaar and Bacco wonder what could be so mysterious.
One curiosity: Picard said he was an amateur in archeology, even though in Greater than the Sum -- which Ward mentioned in the credits -- Picard taught it and led an expedition along with Lieutenant Janeway.
Depressing, but fitting end for the Typhon Pact miniseries: the Pact is obviously potent.
One curiosity: Picard said he was an amateur in archeology, even though in Greater than the Sum -- which Ward mentioned in the credits -- Picard taught it and led an expedition along with Lieutenant Janeway.
Depressing, but fitting end for the Typhon Pact miniseries: the Pact is obviously potent.
^ I just finished it yesterday myself. The first third was so slow, it took me a few weeks to get through; it seems like most Dayton Ward books spend the first third just having everyone show up and explain what their life has been like lately. The last two thirds were great though.
Regardless of the optimism/pessimism discussion, I think it's hard to deny that this book is a perfectly logical outgrowth of Vanguard, Destiny, and the DS9-Relaunch Andor storylines; I think it was brilliant, how it incorporated all those elements without requiring reading any of them to understand what was going on. And Andor's final decision was as tragic as it was inevitable.
Nice job, even if Ward isn't the most concise writer. The last two Typhon Pact books redeemed the first two for me. Yes, they've crossed over a bunch of random series to a point where the individual narrative threads are starting to lose their sense of distinctiveness and, yes, it seems like they have no idea where they're *going* with all of this. But both of the books were good stories, and new political explorations for the Trek universe. Not bad, considering the recent editorial chaos.
Regardless of the optimism/pessimism discussion, I think it's hard to deny that this book is a perfectly logical outgrowth of Vanguard, Destiny, and the DS9-Relaunch Andor storylines; I think it was brilliant, how it incorporated all those elements without requiring reading any of them to understand what was going on. And Andor's final decision was as tragic as it was inevitable.
Nice job, even if Ward isn't the most concise writer. The last two Typhon Pact books redeemed the first two for me. Yes, they've crossed over a bunch of random series to a point where the individual narrative threads are starting to lose their sense of distinctiveness and, yes, it seems like they have no idea where they're *going* with all of this. But both of the books were good stories, and new political explorations for the Trek universe. Not bad, considering the recent editorial chaos.
That was actually in The Buried Age. And Picard was teaching an entry-level class as a doctoral student; he returned to Starfleet before earning his doctorate. He organized the expedition you're referring to, but the official leader was Professor Langford, his doctoral advisor.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I read those two together, back in the summer.
Having just finished Paths of Disharmony the other day, I'd just like to point out that something that was claimed earlier in this thread -- i.e., that Picard was assigned by Starfleet Command and the Federation President to prevent Andor from seceding -- is false. No one even knew that Andor would vote to secede, because the vote was a response to the revelations about the Shedai technology's being kept secret. Secession wasn't even on the agenda before the middle of the book. So it's inaccurate to say that Picard failed at his mission; in fact, he succeeded at his mission. He kept the delegates to the conference safe and tracked down the Andorian terrorists. No one had any clue the Parliament Andoria was voting to secede until the vote was done.
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