Spoilers Terminator: Dark Fate Review and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by David cgc, Nov 3, 2019.

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Grade Terminator: Dark Fate

  1. A+ “Come with me if you want to live.”

    1 vote(s)
    1.8%
  2. A

    6 vote(s)
    10.9%
  3. A-

    5 vote(s)
    9.1%
  4. B+ “I’ll be back.”

    12 vote(s)
    21.8%
  5. B

    8 vote(s)
    14.5%
  6. B-

    6 vote(s)
    10.9%
  7. C+ “Chill out, dickwad.”

    4 vote(s)
    7.3%
  8. C

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  9. C-

    4 vote(s)
    7.3%
  10. D+ “All you know how to create is death and destruction!”

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    1.8%
  13. F “I know now why you cry.”

    4 vote(s)
    7.3%
  1. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah. This is a franchise that desperately needed to do something new but had no idea what that would be.

    Heck, we're still waiting for blu-rays of The Abyss & True Lies.

    I agree with all of this. At least T3 had a promising ending by finally blowing up the world.
     
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  2. Samurai8472

    Samurai8472 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tim Miller opens up about the box office failure, blaming fatigue and the sense of 'betrayal' from previous films


    https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a29896612/terminator-dark-fate-tim-miller-box-office-failure/



    Full interview with Tim Miller

    https://twitter.com/AaronCouch/status/1198001240690397184


    Titles is a bit of click bait here

    www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-terminator-dark-fate-director-wont-work-james-cameron-again-1257322


    To sum that article up in a nutshell for anyone, Miller doesn’t plan to work with Cameron again because he didn’t feel in control of his own movie, and he similarly didn’t return for Deadpool 2 because of Ryan Reynolds’ level of control there.



    He said Cameron and him wouldn’t work together anymore because Miller likes his total creative control and Cameron was very involved in the editing. But after the fact, Cameron actually sent him a message saying he’d like for the two to grab a drink in December which Miller will do.


    Miller also said that if he told you what notes they argued over, we would laugh because it wasn’t anything substantial but a line here or there that Miller absolutely loved but Cameron thought was slowing down the pace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  3. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe not, Tim, but you didn't have to show the future war in daylight, and you didn't have to overload the second half of your movie with just as much meaningless, OTT action noise as Genysis. And Carl is pretty much Genysis' Pops 2.0 - as much as I enjoyed the character, you didn't have to do another cuddly Arnold, assuming you were required to include him at all. (He could have played the human T-101 template, for instance, which due to the Sgt. Candy scene being cut from T3, has never appeared on the big screen.) It can definitely be argued that to bring Linda Hamilton back but keep Arnold around is to miss a great opportunity to emphasize her further.

    I've been thinking that surely the night future war scenes of T1/2 don't make any logical sense - wouldn't human bodies be much easier to spot with infrared tech (which Reese even mentions in T1) at night? So surely humans would be better off fighting during the day, when they themselves could see - and yet the flash-forward nightmares of night fighting is vastly more atmospheric and cinematic. It's one reason to show the future as little as possible, to avoid getting caught up in that paradox. The scene of future Dani winning over the murderous drifters was meant to be a key dramatic moment, but it was just weak.

    (In Cameron's original T2 screenplay, much of the human army that ultimately prevails over Skynet is South American, from regions not as hit by the Cold War nuclear targets, which is why the American flag in T3's flash-forward is so out of place. Dark Fate finally brings a Hispanic flavor to the future war proceedings with Dani, but still falls short in that regard...)
     
  4. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    According to IGN's article about Miller and Cameron one of the other issues, was that Miller wanted to have Legion beat the humans, but Cameron insisted that the humans had to win.
    Miller wanted Legion to be "so powerful, the only way to beat it is going back in time and strangle it in it's crib."
     
  5. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All hail Linda Hamilton, giver of zero effs! Just watch how she replies when asked how Dark Fate is, at the five-minute mark:



    She passes it off as a joke a (long) moment later, but... I see you, Ms. Hamilton. I see you. :rommie:
     
  6. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    Well, she is right
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  7. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    LOL. Spot on, Linda. No take backs. ;)
     
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  8. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don't worry Tim, I felt most fatigued and betrayed by your Terminator movie than any of the others.
     
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  9. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    ^Indeed. I certainly wasn't going in with any baggage from T3, Salvation or Genesys. This was marketed as a direct sequel to T2 and I took it as such. They wiped the slate clean of the last three so-so to crap sequels and positioned it right beside arguably two of the best sci-fi action movies of all time. They really didn't have the luxury of making an *alright* movie; they needed to knock it out of the ballpark if they expected it to be received as a worthy sequel to the first two.
     
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  10. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And i'd hardly call it a sequel to T2. They destroyed any chance of that in the first 5 minutes of this film. Sarah's story was finished.
     
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  11. USS Fardell

    USS Fardell Captain Captain

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    Terminator: Dark Fate
    The sixth movie in the Terminator series, that follows on from the second film, Terminator 2: Judgement Day (with Rise of the Machines, Salvation and Genisys retconned out of the continuity). Again, an Artificial Intelligence rises against humanity, this time called Legion instead of Skynet. However, that is jumping ahead. The movie opens with Sarah Connor recaping what originally happened, with Skynet and it's sending back of Terminators to kill herself and her son, John. The revelation that one succeeding in killing him is appropriately shocking.
    But the it is the effects of that event on Sarah Connor that adds more interest to what would otherwise be a so-so film. More on Sarah's role in the film below. Then we see the arrival of Grace, the human (more-or-less) from the future. The interaction with the young Mexican couple who want to help her (and with the arriving police) was done rather well. This sets up Grace's character in an interesting way. As more, fragile, than Kyle Reece. Then there is the introduction to Dani and her family.
    Also their situation. Dani is shown as a highly motivated young woman, who looks out for her family. (Reminding her father of his doctor's appointment and going in to negotiate with her boss about her brother being replaced by a robot.) At the same time the Rev-9 is introduced, arriving at the apartment complex where the Ramos family lives. The coincidental arrival of Grace and the Rev-9 at the auto-factory was done rather well. The initial scenes of the Rev-9 attempting to terminate Dani in the factory were done rather well.
    As was the chase on the motorway. Appropriately chaotic, with Sarah Connor arriving towards the end. Sarah is competent in attempting to fight off the Terminator. But she doesn't know that this is a different Terminator than what she's familiar with. Dani having to deal with her grief for her father and brother while looking after Grace was a good look at her character. (But, having to use pharmaceuticals to get Grace to recover from the encounter with the Terminator? Wouldn't it have been better to have her recover after an appropriate meal?)
    The chase to Texas. Riding on a train, and then Dani's uncle helps them across the border. The conversation on the train regarding Dani's role in the future resistance vs. John Connors role was an interesting discussion. Of course, miscommunication plays a role. Grace thinks that Sarah is being obtuse and and doesn't want to give away that it's Dani, not any of her offspring who would lead the resistance. Then they come to the border, where they have an experience with the detainment camps for 'unauthorised arrivals'.
    (The less said about that the better. But the scenes there were well acted and choreographed.) Carl. Turns out that the Terminator who had succeeded in killing John and got a new purpose, raising a family, and also sending Sarah after newly arriving Terminators. And Grace had his coordinates tattooed on her to seek help. An interesting addition. Sarah is clearly unforgiving and only begrudgingly joins him to help keep Dani alive. All these scenes are done very well. Drapery? It works.
    Even the scenes in the C5 work. (Clearly some time was spent in the 'Vomit Comet'.) It could be a little difficult to follow, but still enjoyable. (Overall the thing that cut into the enjoyment would be the visceral violence. If one is squeamish...) The ending, where both Grace and Carl sacrifice themselves to destroy the Rev-9 was rather good, as was the scene where Dani and Sarah watch young Grace playing. Overall, a good movie, but it can't match T2. 8.4/10.
     
  12. The Borgified Corpse

    The Borgified Corpse Admiral Admiral

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    Well that's disappointing. I would have hoped that at least one of them would have had the sense to realize that this movie had loads of potential that was being totally wasted by their senseless devotion to the Terminator formula. I still think that they should have done Carl's storyline as a 6-episode streaming series. I'd like to see that journey of a Terminator growing a conscience.

    Terminator Salvation made the same point and flipped it and said that it's worse for humans to go out at night than during the day because of the infrared. Still, that movie never looked compellingly nightmarish the way that all the future flashbacks in the previous movies did, which was a big problem.
     
  13. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I had thought that perhaps they were saving the nightmarish battles at night for a sequel, especially since the T-800s were not around yet. I think I might have read that in an interview somewhere. But totally agreed that the day time scenes robbed us of what we really wanted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  14. 11Alive

    11Alive Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm too lazy to read through 12 pages of replies, so hopefully somebody can clear up a point for me. What did Carl mean when he told Sarah "If you want to keep your phone in a bag of potato chips, then keep your phone in a bag of potato chips"? Is he saying it doesn't actually block the signal, or that she should never take it out for occasional use or charging?
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It means that she can keep hiding from the enemy like a wussy, or they can kit up and frag the baddies, and then live in a world where she doesn't need to put her phone in a chip bag.
     
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  16. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I am disappointed that the movie flopped so badly, but if you make a movie exactly the same as previous movies, you will always get diminishing returns...
     
  17. 11Alive

    11Alive Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That doesn't make sense. He said that in response to her asking if he was tracking her. Besides, she wasn't hiding. She went to every location he texted her and destroyed the terminators, although she was no match for the Rev 9. She was advocating they should stand and fight while Grace was the one who wanted to play it safe. Besides, it's not like she already knew about Legion. As far as she was concerned, Skynet was never built and there were no more "baddies" before Grace's arrival.
     
  18. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This movie was completly unneccessary. It was a step up from Genisys, but not by much. I actually enjoyed Salvation, so I was hoping for something similar to that.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Carl had sent Sarah on several missions to stop Terminators.

    This was said on camera.

    There were new baddies arriving from the future all the time.

    She probably wasn't catching them all as they arrived, especially if they were landing somewhere like Australia.

    Carl was her guy.

    As far as she knew, he was a goodie, becuase he was sending her on missions to kill terminators. Probably human, and definitely from the future.

    Not someone to hide from.

    Also, google tells me that not all chip bags are created equal. Some companies don't use as much aluminium in their chip bags as others, which means that some makeshift Faraday bags work and others don't.
     
  20. crookeddy

    crookeddy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Genisys ended up making more money, even though Dark Fate had wayyyy more hype surrounding it.