Spoilers Terminator: Dark Fate Review and Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by David cgc, Nov 3, 2019.

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Grade Terminator: Dark Fate

  1. A+ “Come with me if you want to live.”

    1 vote(s)
    1.7%
  2. A

    6 vote(s)
    10.3%
  3. A-

    5 vote(s)
    8.6%
  4. B+ “I’ll be back.”

    13 vote(s)
    22.4%
  5. B

    8 vote(s)
    13.8%
  6. B-

    6 vote(s)
    10.3%
  7. C+ “Chill out, dickwad.”

    5 vote(s)
    8.6%
  8. C

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  9. C-

    4 vote(s)
    6.9%
  10. D+ “All you know how to create is death and destruction!”

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    2 vote(s)
    3.4%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    1.7%
  13. F “I know now why you cry.”

    5 vote(s)
    8.6%
  1. thribs

    thribs Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Preferred Genysis more. Dark Fate just felt like more of the same
     
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  2. The Conscience of TNZ

    The Conscience of TNZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's got plenty of recent sequel company. Never the end.

    To me, the scariest single part of THE CORE was this: the fate of the world was in the hands of DJ Qualls.
     
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  3. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I got all that, and it still sucked. It sucked that she was 100% certain, without any direct evidence, that the machines were only out to destroy Dani's womb. It sucked that General Leia failed to prevent her only kid from becoming a mass murderer and failed to discover the existence of Starkiller Base. It sucked that Picard, after closely working with Raffi for several years on the Romulan evacuation, completely ghosted her the moment their project got shut down. And these aren't secondary character traits, either: Sarah is quick to adapt to the situation at hand, Leia is a natural leader with high EQ, and Picard is a thoughtful diplomat who doesn't give up a righteous effort even when his superiors freeze him out. All these examples, therefore, are betrayals of the characters' cores.

    TNG didn't need to sabotage Spock's character when they brought him back (nor, for all its absurdities, did XI), and Generations didn't sabotage Kirk's character. Heck, Picard itself did right by Seven, Riker, and Troi. Crystal Skull was an idiotic movie that didn't advance Indy's character in the time since Last Crusade, but it also didn't make Indy an idiot, or portray him as being out of touch because he neglected to read the latest in historical scholarship due to a key paper having been written by a woman of color.

    It is possible to bring a beloved old character back at a new stage in their life and gave them dramatically interesting flaws without undercutting their core traits. Dark Fate may be a mild example of this, given that it had Sarah still be a resourceful and independent fighter after all these years, but that moment was still unnecessary and disrespectful to the character.

    What's more, that was bad writing in general, because, by having it be the first time Grace told Dani she was humanity's future leader, it seemed like the movie expected the audience to be thrown for a loop, also, when we were far ahead of both Sarah and Dani. In short, it was a crap script. :razz:

    And The Core is awesome. :D

     
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  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I just don't think it's that big a deal. Okay, so she made an assumption, but what difference did it make? Either way, what mattered was not letting the Terminator kill Dani. The reason why it was trying to kill her was an abstract, academic question that had no bearing on her immediate, practical responsibility to prevent Dani's death. So it didn't reflect at all on Sarah's ability to adapt to the situation, because the situation that mattered was the immediate life-or-death fight, and she handled that just fine.


    These two paragraphs prove that we have profoundly different standards of quality in movies.
     
  5. The Conscience of TNZ

    The Conscience of TNZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Didn't Michael Biehn indicate way back in Film One that he and the T-800 were the only ones who were ever capable of going back, or was that swept under the rug once the flick surpassed $50 million?
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Mar 15, 2001
    My very vague memory is that he said the time machine was destroyed after they went back, but that doesn't rule out another one existing without him knowing about it. I think one of the sequels (or maybe TSCC?) showed that its destruction was averted after Reese went back.
     
  7. The Conscience of TNZ

    The Conscience of TNZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  8. Sketcher

    Sketcher Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember reading somewhere once where it was proposed that the time travel seen in Terminators 1-3 were similar to a war of attrition with the best models being sent first. The TX and T-850 were sent to stop John Connor as an adult and failed. Followed by the T-1000 and T-800 in T2, which failed. Finally with no advanced Terminators left, Skynet sent a T-800, and with no reprogrammed Terminators left the resistance was forced to send a lone soldier, i.e. Reese.
     
  9. Cancel Culture

    Cancel Culture Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    in T2 Sarah discovered she could change the future, so whatever Reese said about what happened in his future is not set in stone, even as early as T1, because as it turns out there's nothing to keep them locked in a causality loop.
     
  10. The Conscience of TNZ

    The Conscience of TNZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sending a T-850 after a T-1000 proved as memorable as sending a T-4 after a T-800. Are we due for a T-googol?
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Mar 15, 2001
    Okay, I finally gave in and watched Terminator: Genisys in the interests of thoroughness. It's not nearly as horrible as the reviews suggested, and it's better than Salvation, at least, but I don't think it's nearly as good as Dark Fate. The first act in particular is quite boring, just a rehash of the original movie with less charismatic actors, and just infodumping everything about the backstory up front instead of creating a sense of mystery like the first film, the second to an extent, and Dark Fate did.

    It picks up somewhat once they jump into the future, but it's still got a sizeable number of plot holes. Like, how can John Connor even exist in a timeline where Sarah and Kyle left 1984 and took a one-way trip to the future before he was conceived? Why go to just a day or two before Genisys goes online? We were just shown that Sarah and "Pops" had spent her entire childhood getting ready for the original T-800's arrival and thus had a well-prepared plan in place, so why did they suddenly forget that and just go "Oh, we'll figure something out in 36 hours or so"? Also, if Pops's skin protected him from the magnetic time field, why didn't it protect him from an MRI, which couldn't have been nearly as powerful? And then there's the happy ending that breaks the rule Sarah insisted on just minutes earlier, to leave no trace of future technology behind. And the obligatory post-credits tease to set up a sequel, because nobody is willing to let a movie just stand on its own anymore.

    There was some okay character work with Sarah and her frustration at having no freedom to choose her own life, but the actors just didn't have much chemistry or appeal. And of the two films' takes on an aging Terminator, I found Dark Fate's "Carl" considerably more interesting than "Pops," who was basically just a continuation of the T2 version. Come to think of it, it's kind of contradictory the way Genisys repeatedly stresses that T-800s were designed to be perfectly convincing infiltrators, but shows Pops as incapable of figuring out how to smile convincingly.

    J.K. Simmons was a highlight of the film, as he usually is, but his role was too small. I would've rather spent more time with him than with the much blander and less talented leads.
     
  12. Gepard

    Gepard Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oct 20, 2007
    That would be an interesting take on how to do a Terminator sequel – tell it almost entirely from the perspective of a peripheral character whose life is affected by all the time war BS but who isn't directly involved. The implications of Skynet and the Terminators are terrifying, but none of the sequels have really been able to show that because the central characters just have too much knowledge and influence for it to be really effective.
     
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  13. Saul

    Saul Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was "supposedly" destroyed after he went back in time but he didn't see it with his own eyes and if we take into account Terminator Genisys then the T-800s can build a time machine out of scrap.Then if you watch Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles we see that they find a time machine built in the past by someone who was from the future and the resistance fighters in the future were actually able to build their own time machine to send people back. So it's pretty much Time Machines"R"Us. I actually love the fact that people who knew each other from future remember things differently because the timeline was changed before they left.