The barf inducing bonding moments between the kid and Arnie make any awesomeness of this movie impossible.
I'm 45. If anything I'm too old.
Terminator 2 overrated?
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
I don't think anyone should watch any of these films whilst their brain is engaged. It's contra-indicated, as medics would say.
I didn't realise T2 was overrated. I just thought is was a fun film. What's all the fuss about?
Also, does anyone else not really like what was done with Sarah Connor in T2? There were times I feel she came across as a bit too messed-up. A reviewer on the Internet Movie Database once described her character in T2 as being an "alcoholic female Rambo." Now I don't know about the alcoholic part, but I can understand the rest of his description.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I always thought The Terminator was a simple chase movie. Yes, I appreciated the characterization between Michael Behn and Linda Hamilton, and how her character starts out as a scared, normal simpleton and then evolves into something a bit more worn and torn, but beyond that it has all of the genre requirements you'd expect.
Terminator 2, on the other hand, is more than a rehash of the original. It has a lot more depth and by turning Arnold's Terminator into a more fully rounded character there's a lot more inherent complexity that was simply lacking from the original. It's not just your generic action movie, but there are ideas and themes present with T2 that are dense and intriguing. Also, it is a much more accomplished piece of filmmaking than the original; James Cameron excels at crafting slowly building action sequences and the first chase sequence is truly an exercise in using editing, pacing, and subtlety to create a fantastic set piece.
Terminator 3 was if anything more of a rehash of what came before than anything, and until the end doesn't really explore anything new thematically speaking with the franchise. It's competent, and the action sequences are thrilling (if a tad dutiful and lacking the originality of T2's stellar set pieces) but for the most part there's nothing remarkable or striking about it.
Terminator Salvation is probably the best film of the series since T2 but that's not saying much. What I liked most about the film was the character of Marcus Wright, probably the film's best creation to the universe and mythology, and his relationship with Blair Williams. It's really subtle and kind of on the surface, but there are small moments between the two that are genuine and heartfelt. Marcus's dynamic with Kyle Reese is also the heart of the picture, and I think the film would have been more interesting had it developed that dynamic more. There's a very hinted father-son dynamic that harkens back to the father-son dynamic between the Terminator and John Connor in T2. Speaking of John Connor, as played by Christian Bale, he's a flat, one-dimensional character who is uninteresting and useless. However, with the best action sequences since T2 (no surprise since the editor of that film, Conrad Buff, also edited Salvation), the film doesn't quite elevate from the conventions of the genre or the series but sort of floats nicely.
Terminator 2, on the other hand, is more than a rehash of the original. It has a lot more depth and by turning Arnold's Terminator into a more fully rounded character there's a lot more inherent complexity that was simply lacking from the original. It's not just your generic action movie, but there are ideas and themes present with T2 that are dense and intriguing. Also, it is a much more accomplished piece of filmmaking than the original; James Cameron excels at crafting slowly building action sequences and the first chase sequence is truly an exercise in using editing, pacing, and subtlety to create a fantastic set piece.
Terminator 3 was if anything more of a rehash of what came before than anything, and until the end doesn't really explore anything new thematically speaking with the franchise. It's competent, and the action sequences are thrilling (if a tad dutiful and lacking the originality of T2's stellar set pieces) but for the most part there's nothing remarkable or striking about it.
Terminator Salvation is probably the best film of the series since T2 but that's not saying much. What I liked most about the film was the character of Marcus Wright, probably the film's best creation to the universe and mythology, and his relationship with Blair Williams. It's really subtle and kind of on the surface, but there are small moments between the two that are genuine and heartfelt. Marcus's dynamic with Kyle Reese is also the heart of the picture, and I think the film would have been more interesting had it developed that dynamic more. There's a very hinted father-son dynamic that harkens back to the father-son dynamic between the Terminator and John Connor in T2. Speaking of John Connor, as played by Christian Bale, he's a flat, one-dimensional character who is uninteresting and useless. However, with the best action sequences since T2 (no surprise since the editor of that film, Conrad Buff, also edited Salvation), the film doesn't quite elevate from the conventions of the genre or the series but sort of floats nicely.
"Fun" is a dirty word in some parts.
The first film definitely has more depth to it and is the better film (IMO), but T2 was still an excellent popcorn action flick.
I see a pattern with Cameron.
Remove T2 from that statement and insert Avatar. Same template basically.
Remove Salvation, insert Avatar.
I was on the verge of dozing off during that horrendous second act of Avatar.
I'm a great fan of both The Terminator & Terminator 2. But if I had to pick one, it would be the 1st one. Yes, T2 has some psychological depth with the T-800 achieving humanity & Sarah Connor regaining her humanity. But ultimately, I prefer The Terminator for a few reasons:
1.) It feels more real. There's something about the action and the darkness and everything else that just makes it feel like this could really be happening in our world right now.
2.) Arnold Schwarzenegger is a perfect robot. Cold, efficient, unemotional, singleminded, purely logical. In the sequels, his sunglasses were a cliched fashion statement. Here, he doesn't start wearing them until halfway through the movie, when he needs them to hide his exposed, damaged eye-socket.
3.) Michael Biehn's wild-eyed performance as Kyle Reese is just so much fun!
4.) The Kyle Reese/Sarah Connor love scene is one of the most beautiful, emotional sex scenes I've ever seen on film. It's primal yet heartfelt.
5.) Detective Vukavitch & Dr. Silberman do so much to flesh out the world. These aren't blank placeholders forwarding the plot. They're living, breathing human beings that happen to be glimpsed within an extraordinary story.
1.) It feels more real. There's something about the action and the darkness and everything else that just makes it feel like this could really be happening in our world right now.
2.) Arnold Schwarzenegger is a perfect robot. Cold, efficient, unemotional, singleminded, purely logical. In the sequels, his sunglasses were a cliched fashion statement. Here, he doesn't start wearing them until halfway through the movie, when he needs them to hide his exposed, damaged eye-socket.
3.) Michael Biehn's wild-eyed performance as Kyle Reese is just so much fun!
4.) The Kyle Reese/Sarah Connor love scene is one of the most beautiful, emotional sex scenes I've ever seen on film. It's primal yet heartfelt.
5.) Detective Vukavitch & Dr. Silberman do so much to flesh out the world. These aren't blank placeholders forwarding the plot. They're living, breathing human beings that happen to be glimpsed within an extraordinary story.
It does do what it does very well - unfortunately, some of us don't like what that is. It's not that it's fashionable to run it down (I, for one, disliked it immediately upon seeing it at a pre-release screening), it's that if it's not one's cup of tea, then it's not. And, as polls here have shown, it is a great deal more popular than the original, so again I question the idea that it is "fashionable" to run it down.
I would have to disagree. You are correct that T2 having 12 year old John as its pivotal character begins at a deficit, but I don't see where it climbs out of that hole. It distracts from that hole with what are truly some spectacular action sequences, and for a moment it takes a short detour into what might have been an interesting movie (the idea of Sarah trying to stop Judgment Day by going after Dyson), but that ends up being used just as an excuse for another action set piece.
Yep, that was funny. However, none of the other humor was. T2 has more attempts at humor, but most fall very, very flat - and are also really old robot/ android jokes.
Compared to Terminator, which is an exceedingly tight story with a compact and efficient plot line and themes and a tone which perfectly matches the tale, T2 is bloated, goes down several blind alleyways (is it about John's evolution? the nature of humanity in the Terminator/ Sarah dichotomy? the nature of time/ inevitability of fate in this fictional universe?), and its tone is all over the board. It also drops the ball on several really interesting concepts introduced in the original film - primarily the nature of the future world and the conflict between humans and the machines. Overall, it is a much weaker film for all that it is a successful crowd pleaser due to the aforementioned spectacular action sequences.
But I liked Terminator because it was a very good science fiction story, and I mean in the way of a print science fiction short story. On that level T2 fails miserably - in fact, it doesn't even try to be that. It tries to be a big Hollywood action adventure blockbuster. And it does that very well. However, those are a dime a dozen, forgettable and personally for me, a very unsatisfying movie going experience.
BTW, Reason #6 why The Terminator is better than Terminator 2:
The Terminator is a perfect predestination paradox, with Skynet inadvertantly causing John Connor to be born by giving a reason to send Kyle Reese back in time. Also, it's possible that Skynet inadvertantly caused itself to come into existence by sending some of its advanced hardware back in time for Cyberdyne Systems to find. On the other hand, T2 muddies the waters considerably, particularly since it starts attaching dates to everything. Is it set in 1991 or 1995? If it's set in 1995, then some of the T-800's story about the history of Cyberdyne Systems doesn't jive with a 1997 date for Judgment Day. Plus, by setting that 1997 date, Cameron inadvertantly set up an expiration date for T3 before they had to start talking about altered timelines.
The Terminator is a perfect predestination paradox, with Skynet inadvertantly causing John Connor to be born by giving a reason to send Kyle Reese back in time. Also, it's possible that Skynet inadvertantly caused itself to come into existence by sending some of its advanced hardware back in time for Cyberdyne Systems to find. On the other hand, T2 muddies the waters considerably, particularly since it starts attaching dates to everything. Is it set in 1991 or 1995? If it's set in 1995, then some of the T-800's story about the history of Cyberdyne Systems doesn't jive with a 1997 date for Judgment Day. Plus, by setting that 1997 date, Cameron inadvertantly set up an expiration date for T3 before they had to start talking about altered timelines.
How is Terminator 2 overrated? It is simply one of the best action movies of all time. In the space of a single movie, every major character undergoes some huge change. You see Connor go from a wimpy kid to a potential future leader. Sarah Connor goes from a nutjob to a person who has some hope for the future. The Robot learns the value of human life ( I see why you cry now....). Even Dyson, who's barely in the film for 10 minutes undergoes a major change.
The special effects, pacing, acting and directing are all top notch. So I don't really understand why anyone would call this movie overrated, other than to draw attention or a get a rise out of people.
The special effects, pacing, acting and directing are all top notch. So I don't really understand why anyone would call this movie overrated, other than to draw attention or a get a rise out of people.
The question and answer in one neat package.
I sometimes lean on the first movie as being a better film in terms of atmosphere and build, but I can't deny just how perfect a movie watching experience T2 remains to me even to this day. I can still enjoy that movie as much as I did when I first saw it.
That was the first R-rated movie my parents knowingly let me watch.
That was the first R-rated movie my parents knowingly let me watch.
I actually love the entire franchise. I do tend to like T2 more than the original just because it enhances the character development and has such great action scenes. But even though I may prefer it over the original it really isn't by much.
My only complaint is that Linda Hamilton's acting is a bit too hammy at times. But I love the scene when she is about to go on one of her rants and her son John pretty much tells her to cool it.
My only complaint is that Linda Hamilton's acting is a bit too hammy at times. But I love the scene when she is about to go on one of her rants and her son John pretty much tells her to cool it.
I think the original is the best. Maybe even James Cameron's best film.
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