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TBBS and treatment of women

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^Exactly, Jenee, and once again the key word is respect, which some posters in this thread are not showing, never mind the creeps in picture threads and the like. Respect starts with the acceptance that not everyone shares your view. It's such a basic concept, yet it's so hard for some to understand. It's a shame.
 
I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it had opened some minds.

Coming from one of the most obnoxiously closed-minded posters on the board, this is all kinds of ironic.

If this had come from someone engaged in a debate with RJ who got frustrated, that would be something we could let slide with a verbal warning.

But since it's just a drive-by troll, and also your second one in the thread, it has earned you an infraction for trolling.

Comments to PM
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I enjoyed it. :D
I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it had opened some minds. Unfortunately, these are the same arguments I was having with my Irish Catholic family 35 years ago. :rommie:

RJ, I don't really know what to say here since we just discussed this in the Briefing Room yesterday and you said you would make a conscious effort to not portray the arguments of others as unevolved, anachronistic, and less enlightened than yours, which you've already done several times in this thread (and others unfortunately).

It's especially irritating since unless I'm misreading things Kestra was just making a comment about enjoying SPOCKED's joke about no longer having to deal with these issues as a mod, and you used it as a platform to get in another dig against the people you've debated against here.

Characterizing their opinions as outdated or backwards is little better than the people who were characterizing you as sexist earlier in the thread because of your difference in opinion.
 
Might be fair to say that if ImageShack doesn't want the image, we probably shouldn't be allowing it either.

It wasn't even that racy, heck, imageshack allows pics of people in swimsuits or underwear and the animgif just showed some cleavage...
My guess is Spocked is dicking around by reporting the image as "inappropriate" just because i post in TNZ...
Yes, i set it as my avatar again...
It's more adolescent funny then sexual...
 
Could re up the rating to Trek BBS? I mean, a series hasn't been on the air in 6 years. What's the chance that any fans are under 18?
 
Might be fair to say that if ImageShack doesn't want the image, we probably shouldn't be allowing it either.

It wasn't even that racy, heck, imageshack allows pics of people in swimsuits or underwear and the animgif just showed some cleavage...
My guess is Spocked is dicking around by reporting the image as "inappropriate" just because i post in TNZ...
Yes, i set it as my avatar again...
It's more adolescent funny then sexual...

So, right in the middle of a thread where women are talking about not wanting to be reduced to only their breasts or other body parts, you choose to start using that bouncing boobs avatar again? How is that not just trolling? It's being discussed behind the scenes, so this may not be the last word.

That's the problem whenever this debate comes up, because it splits the board between the two "loudest" extremes of people who either have ridiculously strict expectations of what people should be able to say or what images they can post, and people who react by trying to push the envelope even more and thumb their noses at others. The majority of people who reside in the reasonable middle get drowned out by all the bullshit.

That's why I wish in the future that instead of making another one of these huge knock-down drag out public threads twice a year that always go the same way, people would handle it by PMing their concerns to the staff or notifying on specific posts that make them uncomfortable. It keeps the extremists and troublemakers on both sides out of the debate and is a lot more productive.

I'm not outlawing threads on this issue, of course, just asking for people to consider how these threads always turn out and whether there's not a better way to handle the issue.

I know Robert's intentions in starting this were honorable and not to raise a ruckus, and a lot of people have made fair and valid points here, but I can't help but feel that it causes more bitterness and gives erroneous impressions that this place is basically an endless sexism fest, and quite frankly it's not.
 
I think you're taking RJ's comments much too personally. Thirty-five years ago, this topic was a pretty popular topic of conversation everywhere.

If you're younger than 35, or close to that age, then you have absolutely no idea where he's coming from and ... as it wasn't directed at you personally, really oughtn't take offense to it.

My age has nothing to do with whether I ought or ought not take offence. If anything, it is that attitude which is from the past. What next? People under 35 should be seen, but not heard? I am considered an adult in every country you care to name, and that should be enough to allow me my opinion.

I also do not think it's really for you to tell me what I should or should not be offended by, if you are not personally offended, good for you.

To clarify, if I understand your position, you are happy with the status quo we have here because you have seen far worse (this coming from the perspective of a military person, I imagine you must have!)... it sounds to me like: "In my day, we couldn't afford shoes, so we went barefoot." Hence the princess terminology you used. That's all well and good, but wouldn't it be nice to have things be a little less negative than you've been used to? Inverted sexism can be just as much a problem as plain old sexism.

I have all due sympathy for what your went through 35 years ago, but don't get in the way of those engaged in continuing to make positive changes in the present. And I do not think the willy nilly use of "bitch" and "tramp" are very defensible if we want a positive, healthy environment. I do believe someone who works in an environment where people are trained to kill would have a very high threshold when it comes to things like this. No doubt, I myself might have your same reactions were the situations reversed. We are all products of our environment after all.

Having said all that, I doubt I can get through to someone who thinks generations after herself consider themselves "princesses" because they have not experienced treatment as harsh as you once did. Maybe you think women now have it too good? Some of the words here (not only from you) have had that undertone, a resentful undertone. Still, you are entitled to resent as much as you want.

RJ's comment was not directed at me personally, but to all those who hold an opposing opinion, of which I am one. I responded to him because his voice in green holds some weight in this forum. If he thinks it is perfectly fine to call women "bitch" and "tramp", then compare those who disagree to his own "repressed" religious family of 35 years ago, then I may, and do have a problem with that.

I feel, RJ, given his position, should have an ability to at the very least respect an opposing view, or at best, genuinely attempt to see it from their point of view, even though he may still disagree. He should not be trying to silence people through poorly veiled insults, patronisation, and off-hand dismissal. Then again, why shouldn't he feel superior enough to patronise? He is in that very lucky group who suffer least, white, middle-class, middle-aged male.
 
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Could re up the rating to Trek BBS? I mean, a series hasn't been on the air in 6 years. What's the chance that any fans are under 18?

Then the site would be flooded with Porn :lol:

People could pretty much justify that in their respective country, Pornographic content is legal, etc (In the UK its 18 and in most European Countries its also 18)

TNZ is pretty much the 'Adults Only Forum', I'd think that anyone under 18 would steer clear of that place
 
I would like to say in RJD's defense, that he & I often find ourselves on opposite sides of a debate. However at no time did I ever feel he was being disrespectful of me or of the conflicting opinion I had. Granted, I am in a different position from yours, An Officer... but I did want to say at least this much for what it's worth.
 
Might be fair to say that if ImageShack doesn't want the image, we probably shouldn't be allowing it either.

It wasn't even that racy, heck, imageshack allows pics of people in swimsuits or underwear and the animgif just showed some cleavage...
My guess is Spocked is dicking around by reporting the image as "inappropriate" just because i post in TNZ...
Yes, i set it as my avatar again...
It's more adolescent funny then sexual...

So, right in the middle of a thread where women are talking about not wanting to be reduced to only their breasts or other body parts, you choose to start using that bouncing boobs avatar again? How is that not just trolling? It's being discussed behind the scenes, so this may not be the last word.

Not only that, but calling out a poster in the way you just did is clearly trolling. Knock it off. SPOCKED hasn't even been on staff for a couple of months.
 
To An Officer: You completely misunderstand me - maybe I could have phrased things differently, but I don't know how.

I'm not talking about derogatory names - random use of the word "bitch" or "chick" instead of woman is something that rubs my nerves raw. I don't like it and don't put up with it.

What I don't understand is how someone complimenting a photo you put up - even if that compliment is said in a sexual manner - is creating a "hostile" environment.

Age has everything to do with the discussion - and not because you think we (people older than you) are done with the fight. Things you're getting upset about, verbalizing appreciation of another's sexual attraction, is not something that should be banned. That's what people of RJ's and my generation fought against. Women should not be put on pedestools and expected to be worshipped and never be able to engage in human behavior.

Women I consider "princesses" are women who think everyone should worship them, yet never verbalize that worship or make any gestures about what it is they are worshipping.

If that describes you, I'm sorry. I wish you luck in your trek through this life. But, I have no sympathy for you.

If that doesn't describe you, then I see no need to get bent out of shape over it.
 
I find it pretty offensive that any negative comments about Janeway immediately get responded with "you are sexist"
 
Women I consider "princesses" are women who think everyone should worship them, yet never verbalize that worship or make any gestures about what it is they are worshipping.

I haven't really seen anyone on the BBS that I think would fit that description.
 
It wasn't even that racy, heck, imageshack allows pics of people in swimsuits or underwear and the animgif just showed some cleavage...
My guess is Spocked is dicking around by reporting the image as "inappropriate" just because i post in TNZ...
Yes, i set it as my avatar again...
It's more adolescent funny then sexual...

So, right in the middle of a thread where women are talking about not wanting to be reduced to only their breasts or other body parts, you choose to start using that bouncing boobs avatar again? How is that not just trolling? It's being discussed behind the scenes, so this may not be the last word.

Not only that, but calling out a poster in the way you just did is clearly trolling. Knock it off. SPOCKED hasn't even been on staff for a couple of months.

Already been taken care of...
Damn, this thread has made me defensive thanks to you 3 numbskulls and one ore two female posters in this thread...
 
So, right in the middle of a thread where women are talking about not wanting to be reduced to only their breasts or other body parts, you choose to start using that bouncing boobs avatar again? How is that not just trolling? It's being discussed behind the scenes, so this may not be the last word.

Not only that, but calling out a poster in the way you just did is clearly trolling. Knock it off. SPOCKED hasn't even been on staff for a couple of months.

Already been taken care of...
Damn, this thread has made me defensive thanks to you 3 numbskulls and one ore two female posters in this thread...

Warning for trolling for the previous two friendlies, for trying to falsely stir up trouble in another forum, and for your new avatar and remarks here. Comments to PM.
 
TroyNoOneElse.jpg


Everyone needs to chill and knock off the BS. I don't want to hand out any more infractions and friendlies in this thread today. Enough.
 
I'm not talking about derogatory names - random use of the word "bitch" or "chick" instead of woman is something that rubs my nerves raw. I don't like it and don't put up with it.

Then we are in agreement. From the get go, I have only been concerned with the derogatory stuff. It is only others who have chosen to minimise those concerns.

What I don't understand is how someone complimenting a photo you put up - even if that compliment is said in a sexual manner - is creating a "hostile" environment.
I agree with you once again. I see nothing wrong with this, and have already said so a few pages back to J.Allen, who had your same concerns (perhaps you missed that post). I have actually posted pictures myself, received some feed-back, and I have no complaints and may well do so again. All very healthy as far as I'm concerned. I see nothing at all creepy about a compliment! I enjoy them just like most other well-adjusted people.

As far as I understand it, the photo threads comments were more accurately about creepiness rather than hostility (a few were perhaps way too far the opposite of hostility if you see what I mean), and it was not the compliments that were creepy. The last flare up I believe was in a topic in which some girls posted their tattoos, and a poster, among others, referred to certain tattoos as tramp stamps. That's not even in the same ballpark as a compliment. That I have a problem with, and I'm sure you might, too! In all fairness that one was undisguised enough to be handled after the complaints, thankfully.

Age has everything to do with the discussion - and not because you think we (people older than you) are done with the fight.
I'm glad you haven't.

Things you're getting upset about, verbalizing appreciation of another's sexual attraction, is not something that should be banned.
I never said this. Only one or two others mentioned this earlier, and I don't know who those people are, you'll have to take it up with them. I think we have a misunderstanding here, please don't lump everyone together, I am going after the serious stuff, I couldn't care less about a compliment!

That's what people of RJ's and my generation fought against. Women should not be put on pedestools and expected to be worshipped and never be able to engage in human behavior.
I don't know of any women who expect this in MISC off the top of my head. If that's true, they haven't shared it when I've been around.

If that doesn't describe you, then I see no need to get bent out of shape over it.
I see no reason either. I hope we are coming to understand each other a little better. The very wise Yeoman Randi, said it best. Btw, if this discussion has managed to rattle even her, it must be bad! I thought it could never be done! :lol: :p
 
Robert's original post was written in the hopes that people would show some respect to other posters on the BBS. I don't think that is going to happen if people who try to express their feelings are ridiculed, goaded and insulted for entertainment purposes.

If you have a different opinion that one that's posted, it doesn't give you the right to shoot a person down for fun. Until attitudes about respect are changed, until people realize we are NOT all the same, we all come from different backgrounds with different histories that make us who we are, until popcorn eating icons are no longer posted, until the gang mentality of picking on the one lone guy stops, i think many people will think twice about expressing their feelings.

What happened in this tread was sadly ironic.

Agreed. I would also say most people don't come here to be insulted or harassed...I know I don't. :mallory:
 
Interesting that so many mods appreciate this comment so very much. :lol:

Most of us have SOOOO been there. You see a new thread posted in your forum and immediately go "Oh FUCK - there goes the weekend." :lol:

Yeah, and the "funniest" thing is that it's always the SAME topics that crop up. Every forum has its own incessantly recurrent threads that never fail to descend into douchebaggery eventually (and sometimes far sooner than "eventually").

Could re up the rating to Trek BBS? I mean, a series hasn't been on the air in 6 years. What's the chance that any fans are under 18?

Leaving aside the joky nature of this post, I'd actually prefer making this an 18 board. But that's probably because I basically only post in the non-Trek parts of the board.


THAT is a great thread bomb. :guffaw:
 
Yea, I hate that term "tramp stamp".

Most people only use it because it sounds cute and it rhymes. I know very few people who actually consider it derogatory - the rest just sound stupid saying it. They're like a broken record, continuing to repeat something that sounded cool 10 years ago.
 
Yea, I hate that term "tramp stamp".

Most people only use it because it sounds cute and it rhymes. I know very few people who actually consider it derogatory - the rest just sound stupid saying it. They're like a broken record, continuing to repeat something that sounded cool 10 years ago.

LoLing here...i recently told my husband i was going to get a "tramp stamp" on my back, right above the panty line...of ...wait for it...wait for it....

The Enterprise. Right across my back, from hip to hip. :lol:
He didn't laugh.



ETA: An Officer... you said a lot of things in the past couple of pages that i was thinking but couldn't say. I'll admit i've been very rattled, and one of my biggest problems is that i am not eloquent and i can't seem to express myself well in writing. It sucks verily, i can tell you that. But, i do want to thank you for some of the things you wrote that i just couldnt.
To quote a couple of other sources,...."Want to know more?" if so, Comments to PM. :lol:
 
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