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TBBS and treatment of women

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Something's been bothering me lately...
OOOOOH thanks a whoooooole lot, Robert!!!

Another round of big fat stinky chalupa dropped right square in the laps of the Misc mo...

oh wait....

erm.. never mind

:biggrin:

I mean

1974.gif

The first time it cropped up after I stopped being a Misc Mod, I had the exact same reaction. You know it feels great. :beer:

I seem to recall you coming into the thread to laugh at me for being the sucker who took over for you, too. :lol:
 
If you are under the impression women are objectified more in our culture as time goes on, I must completely disagree. Women have never been closer to true equality than they are now, and the situation gradually improves as time goes on. Sure, sometimes it's two steps forward, one step back, but the objectification of women has come a very long way in a relatively short time from when women essentially were objects, property of their parents until they became property of their husband.
There is still a good long way to go, but imho objectification of women is not worsening, quite the opposite.


I agree but from the opposite tack. I think it is a mistake to believe that men are not objectified. I think in many ways athleticism in men is the equivalent of beauty in women( for example compare male steroid use numbers to female eating disorder numbers). Even my girlfriend has stated that she believes construction work and day laboring is the male equivalent of prostitution,. Men are valued solely for the strength of their back and if that goes they are tossed aside.

This isn't objectification and it's definitely not sexual discrimination. It may be exploitation, or it may be gainful and respectable employment, but either way it's not even remotely comparable to what cultcross is talking about.
 
Is sleeping with a holographic representation of someone really that much different than masturbating to a picture, a blow-up doll with the person's image taped to it or just thinking about the person while masturbating?

Are all of those supposed to be not creepy?


Mmm, I'd say two out of three not creepy. Not a bad ratio. :rommie:

In reference to your comment above I am curious where you think the line should be drawn for creepy or not creepy. After all you certainly could say someone in Hustler shouldn't take offense, but some people would say magazines like FHM and Maxim are really just spank material featuring celebrities who are comfortable being sexy, but not naked. Would you say all celebrities in any context are fame game, because almost by definition they trade on their looks? Would you say the line is between a public figure on the one hand and a person you know or a stranger on the other? Not trying to challenge you I am just interested in your opinion.:bolian:

I would say I'm not really interested in trying to find the margins. I generally don't go out of my way to accuse people of being creepy. I said putting people's pictures on blow up dolls is creepy no matter what (the original subject was the holodeck) and people who would masturbate while thinking about me, if there is no mutual attraction, would weird me out. If I were to pick the margin, it would be somewhere in the range of Maxim and sex scenes in mainstream movies. If it got any less sexual than either of those, I would probably say it's in the creepy range.

But that's not really a subject I plan to give a lot of thought to. :p
 
Something's been bothering me lately...
OOOOOH thanks a whoooooole lot, Robert!!!

Another round of big fat stinky chalupa dropped right square in the laps of the Misc mo...

oh wait....

erm.. never mind

:biggrin:

I mean

1974.gif

:guffaw:

Interesting that so many mods appreciate this comment so very much. :lol:

Most of us have SOOOO been there. You see a new thread posted in your forum and immediately go "Oh FUCK - there goes the weekend." :lol:
 
there's a distinction between thinking about someone and putting a picture of them on a blowup doll to have sex.

It's just a transfer from mind to paper. I'm sure guys out their with highly "active" minds, don't even need the paper -- they're pretty sure they do see the face in their mind, on that blow up doll.

I think the real distinction comes from having a picture you taped to a blow-up doll, versus pictures taken with a camera, from behind a bush, and used to create a shrine in your basement.

I'm sure advanced cavement probably drew women on walls and did ... well, it's so easy a caveman could do it.


Well, yeah, the blowup doll is way too much work. :rommie:

One of my favorite comedians (whose regular toutine might offend some folk...) tells a good one you might enjoy. From memory:

(Robert Schimmel on a blow-up doll)
You get exhausted just from blowing the thing up!
PHEWWWW .... HUUUHHH ... PHEWWWWW ... HUUUHHH ... PHE -- FUCK IT -- this is good enough.
 
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That kind of objectification is a very likely outcome to the way our culture is going.

If you are under the impression women are objectified more in our culture as time goes on, I must completely disagree. Women have never been closer to true equality than they are now, and the situation gradually improves as time goes on. Sure, sometimes it's two steps forward, one step back, but the objectification of women has come a very long way in a relatively short time from when women essentially were objects, property of their parents until they became property of their husband.
There is still a good long way to go, but imho objectification of women is not worsening, quite the opposite.

I think you have two opposite trends going on at the same time.

In a professional and legal environment (structured environments where there are rules, standards, and expectations, and consequences for violating said expectations), women are doing better than they used to.

In the entertainment and popular culture environment, women are not doing any better, and have lost ground. (I also think it can be argued that in this regard some men have lost as well.)
 
(Robert Schimmel on a blow-up doll)
You get exhausted just from blowing the thing up!
PHEWWWW .... HUUUHHH ... PHEWWWWW ... HUUUHHH ... PHE -- FUCK IT -- this is good enough.


:guffaw:

I don't think it's the intent of this thread to be a comedy show, but both times today when I have visited this thread, I ended up getting an awesome laugh.

Thanks! :techman: :lol:
 
In the entertainment and popular culture environment, women are not doing any better, and have lost ground. (I also think it can be argued that in this regard some men have lost as well.)

True and in some cases through there own doing...
Just look at Britney Spears or Lady Gaga, they sell themselves as lust-objects...
But most of the time it's the manager/agent saying they should act or dress in a certain way or pick certain movie/tv roles where there are scenes where they have to appear in a swimsuit to provide cheesecake/beefcake eyecandy...
 
Lady Gaga sells herself as a lust object? I thought she was selling herself as being batshit insane.

Per the main topic, a few points:
1) It's not wrong to say someone who posts their photo online is attractive. The last time I posted my photo online (not here), some gay guy PM'ed a complement/invitation to reciprocate. I wasn't interested, not being gay, but there was nothing that he did wrong. I thanked him for the remark and moved on.

2) It's not even wrong to try and ask someone online out on a date, IF AND ONLY IF you have met a few conditions first. Don't go out of your way to make this (or any forum) your personal dating site. In fact, don't ask anyone out until you're already friends. No woman here wants to log in and see a half dozen solicitations each day from random guys. Keep it natural. Don't be the lame internet version of the lame guy in the bar that asks 2 dozen women what their sign is until he gets a bite.

3) There's a line you can cross in #1 & 2, and that's generally the same line that exists in real life. No always means no. No creepy or crass comments like "nice boobs" or bizzare pseudo-compliments like "nice pupils". That's universal, no matter what your fetish is. Finally, if someone wants to see your junk, they'll ask. Never EVER volunteer that information.

4) Just because someone has a feminine symbol under their name, you don't not need to, and should not make a comment on that unless solicited. This ties into #1-3. You're not going to win any points from her. The "there are no girls on the internet" joke is tired and cliched (read: NOT FUNNY). And it makes you look like a 13 year old virgin who has issues talking to girls. Also, the phrase "you're just saying that cuz you're a girl" (NOTE: "You're" will almost certainly be spell "ur" or "your" in real life examples) is not an acceptable rebuttal. Learn how to argue properly.

5) Don't get bent out of shape when someone uses the word "bitch" or any other gender-specific slur (unless it's directed at you, then by all means be rightfully pissed). It's no more sexist than calling someone an asshole. Why? Because while in theory everyone can be called an asshole, in reality, 99% of the time a man is on the receiving end of that remark. That's almost certainly a higher percentage than "bitch" as men get called that by other men all the time. That goes for "jerk" "pig" "punk" and the myriad of terms prefixed with "ass." Almost all insults are gender specific whether you realize it or not. Don't get on a high horse when one gets used against your team.

6) Sole exception to #5: the C-bomb. Women really really hate that and very, very few deserved to be called something that will upset them that much. I've never used it and plenty of women have made me angry over the years. You don't need to use it either. Shove that one into the nuclear arsenal in case of Armageddon and don't pull it out a day before. Even on Judgement Day, I will assure you it will only make the situation worse.

7) #5 does not give you the right to go around calling people whores and sluts. While, generally, you really mean they're an unpleasant person that happens to be female, it's still extremely rude. Ladies, don't go around calling men pigs and dicks either for the same reason. You all can come up with better ways to describe horrible, no-talent, tone-deaf, stupid-named, one-trick, vain hacks such as Lady Gaga. (See?) On the other hand, if someone is whoring them selves in a non-literal manner, you can still call that out under Rule #5.

8) Sole exception to #7: specific individuals who were your partner and cheated on you with someone else. You have full clearance to call them a two-timing whoring slut of a pig. You do not get to blame the other 3 billion people who happen to match your ex's gender. Just the one.

9) No topless avatars, or skimpy clothed models. Actors/actresses in your favorite movies and shows are acceptable if they're in character or costume. Why? I'm sure you're interesting enough of a person that you can pick something that represents you much better than some Hollywood star(let) that you'll never even meet, never mind bed. Plus, the rest of don't really care who you think is hot.
 
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Well, I read the first post and wanted to just jump in and offer my complete agreement with Robert but restrained myself.

Now I've read all eleven pages and... alas, all I have to say is, I completely agree with you, Robert. Good on you for bringing it up. It bugs the hell out of me and it's been doing so across the internet and among the living for a long time.
 
Curiously enough it did have a knock-on effect in TNZ, where a few people have done some rethinking of their behaviour. It probably won't change anything, mind. Not that I'm saying there needs to be much change.
 
I enjoyed it. :D
I would have enjoyed it a lot more if it had opened some minds. Unfortunately, these are the same arguments I was having with my Irish Catholic family 35 years ago. :rommie:

I resent being compared to a family from more than three decades ago, simply because my views on sexism and creepiness differ from yours. I am as up to date and open minded as you are, thank you very much. Plus bringing their religion into this (whilst you are laughing at it) is not entirely fair. I know you do not follow a particular religion yourself, but that is no reason to suggest people of faith are closed-minded. Some of the best scholars in history have been people of faith. Show some respect.
 
I think you're taking RJ's comments much too personally. Thirty-five years ago, this topic was a pretty popular topic of conversation everywhere.

If you're younger than 35, or close to that age, then you have absolutely no idea where he's coming from and ... as it wasn't directed at you personally, really oughtn't take offense to it.
 
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Something's been bothering me lately...
OOOOOH thanks a whoooooole lot, Robert!!!

Another round of big fat stinky chalupa dropped right square in the laps of the Misc mo...

oh wait....

erm.. never mind

:biggrin:

I mean

1974.gif

:guffaw:

Interesting that so many mods appreciate this comment so very much. :lol:

Most of us have SOOOO been there. You see a new thread posted in your forum and immediately go "Oh FUCK - there goes the weekend." :lol:

As another former Misc mod- yep. It's fun to be able to just observe. :p
 
Robert's original post was written in the hopes that people would show some respect to other posters on the BBS. I don't think that is going to happen if people who try to express their feelings are ridiculed, goaded and insulted for entertainment purposes.

If you have a different opinion that one that's posted, it doesn't give you the right to shoot a person down for fun. Until attitudes about respect are changed, until people realize we are NOT all the same, we all come from different backgrounds with different histories that make us who we are, until popcorn eating icons are no longer posted, until the gang mentality of picking on the one lone guy stops, i think many people will think twice about expressing their feelings.

What happened in this tread was sadly ironic.
 
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