Swearing in Star Trek - Steve Shives

[Commander Troi]

Can you read Beowulf, in its original language that is?

No. I can make out bits and pieces, but that's about it. Trying to read it *does* bring home how the Germanic languages are the "base" of English.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

 

[fireproof78]

I am always amused that most people have bought into the "Shakespearian language is highbrow" thing. There were always "curse words", nasty insults, and scatalogical jokes "for the groundlings".

It amazes me to this day how Shakespeare always gets a pass without realizing how low brow or base it could be.

 

[cooleddie74]

Shakespeare may be world class literature but it's not always highbrow or standing atop the world's writings as its most intelligent.

 

[oldtrekkie]

Shakespeare may be world class literature but it's not always highbrow or standing atop the world's writings as its most intelligent.

Voltaire, who's lived nearly three years in England, wrote scathing reviews of Shakespeare's plays. He thought he was vulgar and common. Truth be told French authors of the same time (Racine, Corneille, Marivaux...) sound nothing like Shakespeare. To find someone with a similar style you have to look for someone like Rabelais who wrote Gargantua, Pantagruel, and such. He was an epicurean who often used graphic terms involving bodily functions and their products...

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

As You Like It isn't just a comedy; it's a gender-bending comedy, a precursor to Some Like It Hot, Bosom Buddies, Victor/Victoria, Tootsie, and Mrs. Doubtfire (not to mention, Charley's Aunt). Even without the Elizabethan custom of casting boys in drag as women, it's a gender-bending comedy, and with that custom, there's another layer of it.

 

[Oddish]

As You Like It isn't just a comedy; it's a gender-bending comedy, a precursor to Some Like It Hot, Bosom Buddies, Victor/Victoria, Tootsie, and Mrs. Doubtfire (not to mention, Charley's Aunt). Even without the Elizabethan custom of casting boys in drag as women, it's a gender-bending comedy, and with that custom, there's another layer of it.

Twelfth Night as well. I expect I'd like Shakespeare more if I hadn't had four tragedies (and nothing else) thrown at me in high school literature.

 

[cooleddie74]

The Taming of the Shrew makes for a most entertaining and fun stage play.

 

[Oddish]

The Taming of the Shrew makes for a most entertaining and fun stage play.

So does "Much Ado About Nothing".

 

[Nerys Myk]

Twelfth Night as well. I expect I'd like Shakespeare more if I hadn't had four tragedies (and nothing else) thrown at me in high school literature.

I hope they were paperbacks and not a hardback of the complete works.

 

[The Wormhole]

Shakespeare sucks
-My Hot Take

 

[Nerys Myk]

Shakespeare sucks
-My Hot Take

The Wormhole doth protest too much, methinks

 

[1001001]

 

[oldtrekkie]

The Taming of the Shrew makes for a most entertaining and fun stage play.

It's also extremely misogynistic and (by today's standards) unenlightened. For all his talent, Shakespeare was a man of his time.

 

[Oddish]

Today's standards also exclude much more recent entertainment. Including Star Trek TOS, with its miniskirted women and its all-male captain and flag officers.

 

[cooleddie74]

It's also extremely misogynistic and (by today's standards) unenlightened. For all his talent, Shakespeare was a man of his time.

Most people of their respective eras are. Very few of us can be an H.G. Wells.

 

[Oddish]

Especially when they have misogynistic audiences to satisfy. Remember what happens to Benny Russell. An author who portrayed women as equal to men might be similarly treated.

 

[cooleddie74]

And in the late 16th century the percentage of citizens of the world's nations who were "enlightened" by even 20th century standards was...yeah, let's be generous and say "minimal."

 

[Oddish]

And in the late 16th century the percentage of citizens of the world's nations who were "enlightened" by even 20th century standards was...yeah, let's be generous and say "minimal."

If you look at plays like "Twelfth Night", which features a clever, spunky, never say die heroine; or "Romeo and Juliet", where the latter is the smarter and more pragmatic of the two, Shakespeare is actually pretty feminist.

 

[cooleddie74]

Thankfully at least some high-ranking, respected people back then were ahead of their time!

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
--James D. Nicoll

As opposed to other languages, especially Romance languages, that have national academies whose sole purpose is to defend linguistic purity with all the fervor Nazis applied to ethnic purity, and to publish dictionaries that don't report usage, but dictate it.

I dunno about you, but I take pride in English's disdain for linguistic purity.