Spoilers Supernatural Season 13

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by auntiehill, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    I took Cas not being able to save the security guard as a sign that either Cas is not fully an angel in some manner or Jack's power is stronger than angel power.
     
  2. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    I figured it was because the guy was already dead and his soul was out of reach.
     
  3. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I agree with auntiehill-- I got the impression that Cass couldn't nullify Jack's power.

    As for Cass being previously resurrected, isn't it different when they get skewered with an Angel Blade? Otherwise don't they just get deported back to Heaven, and then have to find a new vessel?

    Anyway, one problem with this episode was that it was kind of a low-key return for Castiel. Don't get too excited, guys. Maybe the characters have just gotten too jaded to the dead returning. :D

    The best thing about the episode was the sexy mortician. That's two cool new supporting characters this year who aren't dead yet. Fingers crossed.

    But it was also cool that it was Dean who spoke up to assure Jack that he's not a monster. Jack's obviously got a few problems as a Hunter, due to his inexperience and naivete-- two problems that continue to somehow plague Cass after all these years-- but he has learned the tricks of the trade very quickly, just from observation, and his reaction to the accidental death of the bank guard proves his humanity. So all that was good. But the problem was that it wasn't as much of a Western as I expected, despite the ghoul taking the face of a legendary gunslinger.

    And apparently Cass really did get restored to life by annoying King Dagwood of the Big Empty-- unless that is a red herring.
     
  4. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I've been thinking about this...I'd have a hard time accepting this as a possibility if only because of the tag at the end of "The Big Empty." When we first saw Cas in that field, listen to the music--if it was King Dagwood, I'd have expected the music to be more sinister, and for him to react a lot differently. What we saw fits with the Cas we know--a little taken aback at his sudden change in wardrobe, but then taking a moment to appreciate being alive again (after arguing for it so hard I think this is warranted). The line about "wearing this ridiculous hat" also fits...I think what we have is definitely the real Cas.

    I'm also starting to wonder now about the "big role" the showrunners hinted at earlier on...at first I thought it might be using Jack to finally reverse Metatron's spell and give the angels back their wings, but now I'm wondering if it's bigger than that. Cas' reaction to learning that "every angel that ever died is here"--specifically, seeming to look around to see if he could see/sense them--makes me wonder if that bigger purpose might be to work with Jack to bring his deceased brothers (and arch-brothers) and sisters back.

    /It would let us have Richard Speight, Jr, back, at any rate...on that basis alone I think it'd be worth doing.
     
  5. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Come to think of it the showrunners did say that this time around Cas is "deader than usual," so this could well be correct.
     
  6. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I agree. We definitely have Cass back, but that doesn't preclude that King Dagwood may have hitched a ride, somewhat like the Leviathans did.

    It did occur to me that this revelation will end up having some significance later on. But that would bring back all the dead Demons, too, unless he was very selective. Actually, now that I think of it, your theory fits in with my theory of the Alternate Universe in which Jack is the Big Bad and Michael is trying to stop him-- perhaps in that Universe Jack did bring back all the dead Angels and Demons and that's what started the war. Therefore he must be stopped from doing that in this universe.
     
  7. Farscape One

    Farscape One Captain Captain

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    I wonder if there are caveats to the dead angels and demons being in the Empty. Like being killed by an angel blade... maybe the blade is not so much a weapon as it is an energy transporter. That could explain why they say Castiel is deader than usual... the blade drained him, and he was brought back but not fully powered.

    A lot of angels and demons we have seen were killed by angel blades... Gabriel, Balthazar, Meg, Bartholomew, that angel Castiel killed and stole his grace from in season 9, that angel Crowley killed to give Castiel some grace, and all those angels killed in the civil war.

    In any case, there are some angels I'd like to see again... Gadreel, Balthazar, Gabriel.

    One thing does puzzle me... the nephilim Castiel killed to get that spell at the end of season 8. She could be killed, obviously... why not Jack? Unless it's because he's an archangel's child.

    I believe, given that it took a nephilim's death to bring about the ejection of angels from heaven, it will require another to restore them. And I think it will be a willing sacrifice on Jack's part.
     
  8. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Ah, good ol' Theo. Four years later and that moment still gives me chills.

    They didn't come out and say it, but Metatron seemed to suggest that she was sired by a low-ranking angel, and even taking the season 13 lore into account, she wouldn't have been that powerful...even if a nephilim is more powerful than the angel that sired it, considering what we saw of regular-level angels in season 4 (and how easily she was bested by a seraph), not hard to accept that she wouldn't have been that hard to kill.
     
  9. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    Happy Thanksgiving!
    [​IMG]
    For some reason, they are showing a new episode on a holiday. Go figure. Lots of stuff happening,

    Is it me or does Lucy's voice sound different? Maybe Mark had a cold. LOVE seeing alt-Kevin; would SO love to see alt-Kevin with the boys. Where is Mary?

    About Ketch: evil twin? Really? Glad Dean didn't fall for it.

    Not digging Evil Colonel Sanders. He's not a very impressive Big Bad---granted, Lucy and Crowley are hard acts to follow.

    I like the idea of the angels being afraid of going extinct. Ever since they had Dean carry all those souls to face Amara, I wondered if Chuck was priming Dean to become an archangel.

    Next week looks like Supernatural Leverage. *sigh*
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  10. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wasn't just you--Pellegrino definitely sounded different.

    With you on feeling the love for alt-Kevin; I didn't realize how much I'd missed Osric Chau untkl tonight, but we definitely need him to show up more.

    Asmodeus would be a lot scarier if they'd show him actually evil-ing a little...but so far the only thing he's really done has been dust some demons in the season premiere.

    I have to say I was kind of let down by this installment...I was expecting a little more focus on Apocalypse World, but we didn't get much more than Michael's lockup. Part of me was also hoping to see Cas zap again...but no such luck. And am I the only one that has a problem with Lucifer being so debilitated by losing some of his grace? He talked like it would just take time...does that mean an angel's grace regenerates over time if some of it is lost?
     
  11. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    ^ like blood, maybe?
     
  12. Farscape One

    Farscape One Captain Captain

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    I have seen no evidence of that with angels. Maybe it's different with archangels, since they are made from the primordial ooze, as Chuck put it.
     
  13. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

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    He could also have a plan to power-up (perhaps using Jack's essence if Daddy gets rejected).
     
  14. Aragorn

    Aragorn Admiral Admiral

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    The first time he appeared, I thought it was Chris Sarandon for a second. That would've made him more interesting.
     
  15. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    This was a good episode, with a lot going on, and it kept me guessing, but it was weird.

    The part that really kept me guessing was Ketch. At first I assumed he was from the Alternate Universe-- I figured the beard was a joke-- and that he would be the key to some backdoor or something that the boys could use to bring Mary back. Then he came up with the Evil Twin story that was backed up by BMOL documentation, so I believed him. At that point, I figured that the producers liked the actor and found a way to bring him back, as they had once done with Cass. But, no, he is the real Ketch who had once struck a deal with Rowena. And this does seem to hint that she may return as well. And the other strange thing is that they would bring back two dead characters in the same episode, yet by different means.

    And then we have Kevin, who, in the Alternate Universe, is not a souped-up badass, but is in fact even geekier than our Kevin. That was kind of funny. And we also learn that Alternate Michael, rather than recruiting Lucifer to help fight whoever is the Big Bad in the Alternate Universe, just wants to run away. So he steals some of Lucifer's grace, but the little weasel turns the tables anyway and escapes back to our world. Only now he's depowered. Lucifer trying to zap people on the street and failing cracked me up. :rommie:

    On top of that, we learned that the Angels fear extinction because so many have been killed lately and no new Angels have been created since the beginning of time. Interesting that we would learn this just after learning that all dead Angels are merely asleep in the Big Empty. Hmmm.

    No Mary Winchester sighting, unfortunately. Is she being held captive by Alternate Michael, or is she just running around the Alternate Universe somewhere?

    So now everything is kind of turned upside down. Jack is gone and untraceable, Lucifer is back but powerless, Asmodeus has both Lucifer and Cass trapped in Hell's dungeon, and Ketch is back from the dead and on the loose with a questionable agenda.

    Very interesting.
     
  16. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    [​IMG]

    New episode tonight--looks like a "heist picture," Supernatural-style.
     
  17. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Dean: "What's this, a heist? Wait...is this a heist?"
     
  18. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Dean: "IT GOT ME! IT GOT ME!!!!"
     
  19. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You know, for a filler episode, this one was actually pretty entertaining...more to the point, it was hilarious. Every so often they do an episode that's pure, simple fun, and this was one. From Dean's reactions after the demon recited the blood spell, to the thing with the vault door...they were clearly trying to make this as much fun as they could, and for once they did it exactly right.

    (I was kind of surprised when the collector guy turned out to have a Southern drawl similar to Asmodeus, but maybe that's this season's "tell" for when someone's a Really Bad Villain)
     
  20. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    ^ Well, Collector-Dude wasn't all bad; he got some pathos there at the end. I really liked them rolling him through the "low-rent" Indiana Jones trap--OUCH.

    Lots of fun moments for Dean: LOVED the bit with his hand in the "trap." :lol: