Yes.
Spoilers "Superman & Lois": The Fourth and Final Season
- Thread starter The Realist
- Start date
When Lex was threatening Lana in her office, I was hoping she'd point out that the last time some rich jerk tried to take over Smallville, he brainwashed the population and shot lasers out of his eyes, so he'd have to try a little harder to be intimidating, but I was glad of the Morgan Edge name-drop later on (the way I see it, I watched the whole show, I appreciate it when the writers confirm that they have, too).
That's been my thinking, too, for the never-before-adapted section of the final arc.
Yeah, I appreciate that Clark's a good person or whatever, but this version of Lex is so blatantly unhinged and barely-competent, it's hard imagine why people, including rough, violent people, are willing to put up with him. As I said earlier, it's like everyone's just standing around chatting reasonably with a xenomorph or a grizzly bear or a rabid wolf. Clark should be much more open to playing hardball. Even TAS Superman was willing to be intimidating to Lex five minutes after meeting him, creepily floating outside his office. This Lex is a buffoonish bully, and it baffles me that no one seems to realize they can take control of the situation just by not obeying in advance (which, to be fair, finally happened in the bar in this episode). If they don't give him the submission or other reaction he craves, what's he going to do? Something ostentatiously violent and blatantly illegal, which is something of a self-correcting problem given his lack of a support structure.
That's been my thinking, too, for the never-before-adapted section of the final arc.
Interesting thought!
I had to keep myself from yelling, "Kick his ass, Clark!" all through that fight.
Yeah, I appreciate that Clark's a good person or whatever, but this version of Lex is so blatantly unhinged and barely-competent, it's hard imagine why people, including rough, violent people, are willing to put up with him. As I said earlier, it's like everyone's just standing around chatting reasonably with a xenomorph or a grizzly bear or a rabid wolf. Clark should be much more open to playing hardball. Even TAS Superman was willing to be intimidating to Lex five minutes after meeting him, creepily floating outside his office. This Lex is a buffoonish bully, and it baffles me that no one seems to realize they can take control of the situation just by not obeying in advance (which, to be fair, finally happened in the bar in this episode). If they don't give him the submission or other reaction he craves, what's he going to do? Something ostentatiously violent and blatantly illegal, which is something of a self-correcting problem given his lack of a support structure.
Superman and Lois - the final season
Episode 5 - "When the Lights Come On"
GOOD, WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS: At long last, Superman remembered the man part of his name in defending his wife, children and friends. Investigations and legalistic speeches only go so far with certain people, and as Lois pointed out, Luthor's allies are not talking or have Luthor-paid legal representation, so where does it go, when paper fail to frighten or stop a threat? Nowhere. That is reality. Despite the red sun lamp trick, Clark was able to overcome Luthor and beat the shit out of him, which is one of the most true-to-real-life reactions ever seen in this "Arrowverse" (Jefferson Pierce had a similar "at long last" moment on Black Lightning). Of course, certain viewers probably clutched their pearls at the idea that a super-powered being would threaten a regular human--and yes, Clark was edging toward laying hands on Luthor before the red sun lamps were activated (and we all know exactly what would have happened if he did).
Clark had his scene of the series in brutalizing Luthor, letting out righteous rage, rather than talk, which has consistently failed to do a thing to make Luthor back down. This is the way to show Luthor (or anyone) that he (Clark) has drawn a line in the sand, and it worked, since Amanda (loyal until the end...) knows Luthor cannot defeat Clark/SM without the suit (SEE NOTES).
The showrunners had Clark regret getting into the fight, but his sons werre correct, and its inspired Jordan to stop supressing his true self brought on by his never-ending bouts of self-doubt.
The attack on Lana was telegraphed, but the execution of it worked well. It seems Lana is granting Sarah's wish to study abroad as a way of getting her out of harm's way. Nice nod to Lana and John Henry still maintaining a relationship, although I wish they had more screen time in this shortened season.
Clark going gray...obviously setting up Clark having more human traits thanks to Sam's heart (and Ed Wood-ian "medicine"), and the fight, since he--in theory--should have been weaker. Nice moment when Lois reminded Clark:
Clark: "Yeah, but i'm not what I was."
Lois: "Welcome to being human."
A refernce to her recent health issues, which he should--by now--take some inspiration from the way she's had to cope with a self-altering problem.
BAD: More of a scaling down production matter, as Sarah heading off to study abroad was more housecleaning of performers in this final season.
NOTES: Luthor getting the suit was no secret, but I hope the first line of defense is not John Henry or Natalie (IOW, no suit vs suit crap)--especially when you have two fully superpowered teenagers on the scene.
GRADE: A.
Episode 5 - "When the Lights Come On"
GOOD, WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS: At long last, Superman remembered the man part of his name in defending his wife, children and friends. Investigations and legalistic speeches only go so far with certain people, and as Lois pointed out, Luthor's allies are not talking or have Luthor-paid legal representation, so where does it go, when paper fail to frighten or stop a threat? Nowhere. That is reality. Despite the red sun lamp trick, Clark was able to overcome Luthor and beat the shit out of him, which is one of the most true-to-real-life reactions ever seen in this "Arrowverse" (Jefferson Pierce had a similar "at long last" moment on Black Lightning). Of course, certain viewers probably clutched their pearls at the idea that a super-powered being would threaten a regular human--and yes, Clark was edging toward laying hands on Luthor before the red sun lamps were activated (and we all know exactly what would have happened if he did).
Clark had his scene of the series in brutalizing Luthor, letting out righteous rage, rather than talk, which has consistently failed to do a thing to make Luthor back down. This is the way to show Luthor (or anyone) that he (Clark) has drawn a line in the sand, and it worked, since Amanda (loyal until the end...) knows Luthor cannot defeat Clark/SM without the suit (SEE NOTES).
The showrunners had Clark regret getting into the fight, but his sons werre correct, and its inspired Jordan to stop supressing his true self brought on by his never-ending bouts of self-doubt.
The attack on Lana was telegraphed, but the execution of it worked well. It seems Lana is granting Sarah's wish to study abroad as a way of getting her out of harm's way. Nice nod to Lana and John Henry still maintaining a relationship, although I wish they had more screen time in this shortened season.
Clark going gray...obviously setting up Clark having more human traits thanks to Sam's heart (and Ed Wood-ian "medicine"), and the fight, since he--in theory--should have been weaker. Nice moment when Lois reminded Clark:
Clark: "Yeah, but i'm not what I was."
Lois: "Welcome to being human."
A refernce to her recent health issues, which he should--by now--take some inspiration from the way she's had to cope with a self-altering problem.
BAD: More of a scaling down production matter, as Sarah heading off to study abroad was more housecleaning of performers in this final season.
NOTES: Luthor getting the suit was no secret, but I hope the first line of defense is not John Henry or Natalie (IOW, no suit vs suit crap)--especially when you have two fully superpowered teenagers on the scene.
GRADE: A.
He's got enough money to give everyone in town 10 million dollars and not blink an eye.
I'm not entirely sure. Not-Mercy certainly blinked, and she's (relatively) sane.
Which seems to be mostly due to Amanda, and now he's letting his vendetta run his business into the ground. Which makes it strange that she'd choose loyalty to him over the company whose success she's more responsible for than he is.
David's right -- this is just not a very well-written or plausible interpretation of Luthor. He's all revenge and menace and bullying, no nuance or strategy, no charisma. Such a disappointment after how rich and multilayered Bruno Mannheim was last season. With Mannheim, you could understand why people were loyal to him, because he did a lot of good for his community and sincerely believed that his crimes were necessary for ultimately constructive goals, and because he was good at putting on a pleasant face and charming people. This Luthor only has one mode, glowering intimidation.
She's blinded by love which seems to counter act her sanity.
And the way this Luthor is written and acted, it's hard to understand what she sees in him. Heck, at least the Joker made Harley laugh.
Exactly.
Again--exactly. Some cannot understand that accusations of "bully" and any other description are not deal-breakers with some in relationships, meaning in Amanda's case, she's been with Luthor for so long, that she's not bothered by his projections toward others. In fact, she's an enabler of it, not a victim up to this point, hence her decision to stay with him and lead him into wearing the suit..
I haven't seen any of the episodes with him, but it's disappointing to hear that the Superman series has one of the worst versions of Luthor in a while. Especially after Jon Cryer was so phenomenal in the other Arrowverse shows. I didn't much of him but what I did see of Titus Welliver's version in Titans seemed good too.
He was in only one episode, and what I remember of him wasn't that different from this Luthor, aside from seeming more polished and upper-class. A similar kind of tough, intimidating manner (IIRC), and much the same approach to hairstyling, since apparently it's obligatory these days for TV Luthors to have beards (although Welliver's was huge).
I don't think Cudlitz's version is bad at all, but it's a radically different take on the character. Though we're still evidently supposed to understand that he's a genius of some sort, his presentation is mostly blunt force and intimidation, especially after almost two decades in prison. But many of the screen Luthors have been pretty free adaptations from the comics version, which I've never had a problem with. And Cudlitz is extremely effective for the kind of Luthor they've chosen to present.
But it's true his version can't hold a candle to Cryer's brilliant turn in the role -- though that's partly down to the writing choices made for each series' take on the character, as well.
As for Welliver, I fear he left little impression on me. Not really the actor's fault, but as Christopher said, he only appears in one episode, and basically has like three scenes. Not really much chance to leave a major impression as the character (though our absent friend Ovation was a big fan, so he worked for somebody).
Pretty much. Maybe a little more over the top/campier? (Which, to be clear, was tremendously fun, and which Cryer performed brilliantly.) His initial two appearances on Supergirl were probably the peak writing for the character, but he remained a highlight of every episode in which he appeared.
Tragically, no.(And did they ever make a reference to his nephew Lenny?)
Cool. I just wanted to be able to gauge the assertions of him being a great Luthor are, based on what I actually saw of him. Y'know, to know if I'd agree or not.
That's actually kind of a bummer. It feels like the kind of thing they usually go for.
Fidelity is rarely the issue. What makes something good is not whether it copies something else, but whether it's good in its own right. I mean, Bruno Mannheim last season was extremely unfaithful to the comics version, with an entirely different personality, backstory, and motivation, a nuanced and sympathetic antagonist where the comics' "Ugly" Mannheim was a more ruthless, purely evil crime boss and minion of Darkseid. If anything, Cudlitz's Luthor resembles "Ugly" Mannheim more than Chad L. Coleman's Mannheim did. But Mannheim was the best antagonist S&L ever had, because they weren't faithful to the source but created something worthwhile of their own.
Yes, I praised Supergirl's Luthor for being the most faithful screen adaptation of the comics' Luthor we've ever had, but that's because the comics' Luthor is a rich and effective character, and the screen adaptations that have changed him the most have rarely come up with something comparably interesting. Smallville did, for the most part, although that was largely by riffing on the Silver Age Superboy comics making Clark and Lex childhood friends. But Gene Hackman's Luthor, while entertainingly performed, was too much of a Batman '66 Special Guest Villain to be a really effective Luthor. And Cudlitz's Luthor is just too one-note to be interesting.
Mmm, maybe, in the sense that I'd feel very afraid and anxiety-triggered if his version of Luthor confronted me in person, and that kind of direct personal threat is what they're going for. But that's just why I find him unpleasant to watch as a fictional character, and why I don't respect him as a character, because he's just a bully relying on pushing people around, and that makes him very small and petty. He comes off less as a criminal mastermind and more as one of the low-level goons the criminal mastermind's lieutenant would send out to collect protection money from terrorized business owners.
Cudlitz's Luthor is based on more realistic influences, as opposed to the historically more-often-than-not self-defeating clown as presented in decades' worth of comics. Superman and Lois had to create its own version to fit the tone of the main players: few to none were going to be intimidated by a sniveling Cryer version, the buffoonish Hackman version, or any other interpretation.
As much as I believe Eisenberg's Luthor was absolutely pitch-perfect as a representation of the wealthy, athiestic, manipulative "tech bros" who have so much influence over life and politics in the real world (exactly one of the two kinds of a Luthor that would exist in reality), even his great performance--the best screen Luthor to date--was not what S&L needed. Cudlitz is that other type of Luthor--the tough, ruthless businessman who does not need to remind everyone in the room who he is--he simply makes things happen, and is not afraid to get his own hands dirty, which is what his prison experience accurately depicted.
Asserting his psychological power over Lois has worked--all he had to to is show up and make one demand, and her "wrong" answer gave him the fuel needed to manipulate the Kents at will. He has the edge over them--keeping them guessing, looking over their shoulders, scrambling, despite three people in the Kent house being super-powered, which--one might assume--gave them a solution (partially implied by the Kent sons in this latest episode).
That is an effective villain, and the 2nd best screen Luthor to date.
I'll admit, I'm a big fan of Titus Welliver, so that might have colored my perception of his version a bit.
I dunno, I really like this version of Luthor. Is he my favorite? No. I never watched Smallville, but I heard Rosenbaum's has been the closest to the comic book version of Luthor. That, and Clancy Brown's animated version.
But heck, I liked Gene Hackman's funny take take on Luthor too. He was funny but he was also deadly. Spacey had the goods and played Luthor meaner and colder. Eisenberg's I didn't care much for, too whiny and angsty. I thought he was a bad call by Snyder in addition to many bad calls in Man of Steel.
However, I loved Jon Cryer's Luthor in Supergirl. Just great. And yeah, I really like Michael Cudlitz's Luthor too. There guy is a cold monster out for revenge. I think there's room to re-interpret Luthor, just like there have been different takes on Batman.
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