I know. I just find it funny that even when people are listing liked and disliked Luthors, he still gets forgotten a lot. It's like some unspoken agreement that he's not worth mentioning.
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Spoilers "Superman & Lois": The Fourth and Final Season
- Thread starter The Realist
- Start date
I like him a lot more than biker gang leader Luther.
Eisenberg's Luthor was tolerable in small doses, even mildly entertaining, but as the film went on and he got broader and more obnoxious, he became grating. Even at his best, he was one of the more minor entries in the Lex-icon of Luthor actors.
Huh, I could have sworn we saw more people than just Otis and Miss Tessmacher working for him, but I haven't watched Superman or Superman II in a while.I agree, but he's not entirely wrong. Part of why Hackman's Lex didn't work for me was that he was apparently incapable of building a larger criminal organization than one idiot and one moll. He didn't even have a squad of henchmen like most Batman '66 villains. Ross Webster in Superman III was a more convincing archvillain because he actually had a whole organization at his beck and call. Hackman's Luthor didn't have enough subordinate villains to qualify as an archvillain. He was just an arch villain.
I did too, along with Jared Leto's Joker. I thought they were both an interesting take on an updated version of the characters that played off of the more modern expectations of what a billionaire tech company CEO and a gangster are like.
Wow. I'm very glad they didn't go the way I speculated last week. I began to get a feeling where they might be headed when I saw the story stressing the personal and interpersonal cost of lying to everyone, and when Lois told the boys how secrecy was Clark's childhood hangup. But I wasn't sure which way they'd go, so it was effective and satisfying watching him make that decision in the diner. The interview was great, though I'm surprised he never took the glasses off or opened his shirt or did anything to prove on camera that he was Superman.
Of course, realistically, somebody should be pointing out now what a gross conflict of interest it was for Clark Kent to report on Superman while hiding his personal stake in the stories. But maybe that'll come up next week, who knows?
Anyway, it's interesting how secret identities seem to have become a discredited trope. The modern attitude seems to be that characters lying to their friends and families about their true nature is not a good or noble thing. I think that's partly because of an increased awareness that the kind of gaslighting characters like Superman have traditionally used to trick Lois and make her doubt her deductions about Clark is basically a controlling, abusive way to treat someone, but also because today's society (though not necessarily tomorrow's, the way things are going) is more accustomed to coming-out stories and people taking pride in embracing their true identities rather than living a lie to conform to cultural expectations. I think it's also partly just that in the information age and the social-media age, privacy in general is less of a thing.
So now both CW/Berlanti Super-person shows have had their title characters go public with their secret identities in the final season, but in this case, it's with three episodes left to go, so hopefully we'll see more of the aftereffects and the new status quo.
I wasn't as fond of the flashbacks. I get the idea of showing a past experience involving the cost of hiding the truth, but it's kind of weird to define Jimmy Olsen as someone whose entire relationship with Clark revolves around playing softball, and I didn't find Jimmy's actor appealing. It's also a bit weird to have a Jimmy who'se taller than Clark. Okay, Mehcad Brooks was even taller, but if we ever saw him and Hoechlin together in Supergirl, it wasn't often.
Of course, realistically, somebody should be pointing out now what a gross conflict of interest it was for Clark Kent to report on Superman while hiding his personal stake in the stories. But maybe that'll come up next week, who knows?
Anyway, it's interesting how secret identities seem to have become a discredited trope. The modern attitude seems to be that characters lying to their friends and families about their true nature is not a good or noble thing. I think that's partly because of an increased awareness that the kind of gaslighting characters like Superman have traditionally used to trick Lois and make her doubt her deductions about Clark is basically a controlling, abusive way to treat someone, but also because today's society (though not necessarily tomorrow's, the way things are going) is more accustomed to coming-out stories and people taking pride in embracing their true identities rather than living a lie to conform to cultural expectations. I think it's also partly just that in the information age and the social-media age, privacy in general is less of a thing.
So now both CW/Berlanti Super-person shows have had their title characters go public with their secret identities in the final season, but in this case, it's with three episodes left to go, so hopefully we'll see more of the aftereffects and the new status quo.
I wasn't as fond of the flashbacks. I get the idea of showing a past experience involving the cost of hiding the truth, but it's kind of weird to define Jimmy Olsen as someone whose entire relationship with Clark revolves around playing softball, and I didn't find Jimmy's actor appealing. It's also a bit weird to have a Jimmy who'se taller than Clark. Okay, Mehcad Brooks was even taller, but if we ever saw him and Hoechlin together in Supergirl, it wasn't often.
Make that three. Well, not just '78, but all the saves that Jimmy identified were referencing the Reeve movies.
Another all-time great hour of Superman storytelling. Lower key than last week, but every bit as powerful in its own quiet, intimate, character-driven, intensely emotional way.
Back when Clark revealed his secret to Lana, I commented at the time that he seemed downright scared in the moment -- that he had internalized so completely the idea that concealing his true identity was an absolute necessity that it was almost impossible for him to take that step, even with his oldest friend. This episode took that idea and explored it in depth, and in some ways revealed more about Hoechlin's Clark -- the deep loneliness that he's lived with -- than we've ever understood before.
The flashbacks to Lois and Clark's Planet days were great as usual, but where they started off really funny and charming (Clark: "I love bunting!"; Lois: "I don't know what that means, but great!"), it became apparent as they were woven throughout the hour that they were headed to a sad place, in keeping with the episode's overall theme. That Jimmy was trying to offer Clark a real friendship, but Clark ended up alienating him because of his need to gaslight Jimmy about the secret, was a poignant twist on the story of "Superman's pal."
The scene with Emmitt in the diner was amazing and beautifully done. I loved that shot where Clark looked to Lois as he was faced with the inevitable decision, and though she's frozen in time like everyone else, it's like she's gazing right at him with all the love and support and strength that he needs in that life-changing moment. I've said before that, to me, the Superman story is first and foremost the love story of Lois Lane and Clark Kent, and this show gets that down to its bones.
The interview with Janet (now confirmed to be Jimmy's sister) was also handled with grace and feeling. (It reminded me of Kara's televised "coming out" in the series finale of Supergirl, which was also a beautiful and emotional moment.) And Clark's reunion with Jimmy had me, once again, in tears -- a not uncommon occurrence with this series.
I also loved Lois and Clark helping Chrissy and Kyle out with the money for their home purchase.
All this, and a reference to "Bibbowski's." This great series (only three episodes left
) has once again made me a very happy Superman fan.The Helicopter scene is the one I have the strongest memory of.
Though that event probably didn't happen 1:1 to movie, as the Daily Planet in S&L doesn't appear to have a Helipad on the roof.
It's probably the single most iconic Superman sequence ever committed to film, so ....
Well, it can't have, since it and the other homaged rescues happened during the team's softball games, so it's well after Clark and Lois have become a couple and he's confided his secret.
Honestly, homaging the Reeve movie feels like low-hanging fruit. It gets referenced so often that it's tiresome by this point. I'd rather see new Superman stories create their own versions of the continuity rather than just relying on in-jokes and nostalgia. (Like My Adventures with Superman, one of the most innovative reinterpretations I've ever seen, even though I don't agree with all of its choices.)
Although there were references to other things, at least. Jimmy Olsen calling Clark "C.K." originated with Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. The rival softball team was the Daily Star, the original name for the Planet in the late-'30s comics. And there was the reference to Bibbowski's from the '90s comics and after.
I know my memory ain't great, but did Jimmy have a sister in comics? I don't remember one.
The current comics version has a sister named Janie and a brother named Julian. The Arrowverse Jimmy had Kelly Olsen.
Interestingly, Black Lightning had a reporter character named Jamillah Olsen, who could've been that universe's gender-flipped doppelganger of Jimmy, except that she was still around after the universes were merged in the Crisis, so perhaps she was a sister he didn't have on Earth-38. Or it was just a coincidence.
Janet has been a recurring character in the Daily Planet episodes since season 1, but I think this is the first time we've learned her full name.
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Superman and Lois - the final season
Episode 6 - "A Regular Guy"
GOOD: Kyle and Chrissy's struggles, sacrifices and Kyle's reconciliation with Clark were the episode's strengths. The reunion with New Olsen would have worked just as well with Clark's move to Kansas being the source of their lost friendship, which is quite common in reality.
BAD: Clark was right to protect his identity from those who would (and now should) exploit it for their own interests, or for darker reasons, like some guy named Luthor. The entire "lie" narrative was tossed out of the window the second Emmitt (Candice's father) aimed a gun and pulled the trigger; it does not matter whether his daughter or Luthor informed him about Clark, his previous, hostile interaction with Clark would always threaten another conflict, and with Emmitt knowing the secret, in that moment, Lois, Kyle, Chrissy and any other customer in the diner could have been killed there. Or, Emmitt would have the luxury of simply lying in wait to harm someone close to Clark at any time (and no, i'm not talking about the twins, since Emmitt would have reasoned that they share some genetic similarities with their father).
NOTES: Here's hoping Luthor comes roaring back (in the suit) in next week's "Sharp Dressed Man".
GRADE: C+.
True, the long list of homages and swipes date back to season one.
Episode 6 - "A Regular Guy"
GOOD: Kyle and Chrissy's struggles, sacrifices and Kyle's reconciliation with Clark were the episode's strengths. The reunion with New Olsen would have worked just as well with Clark's move to Kansas being the source of their lost friendship, which is quite common in reality.
BAD: Clark was right to protect his identity from those who would (and now should) exploit it for their own interests, or for darker reasons, like some guy named Luthor. The entire "lie" narrative was tossed out of the window the second Emmitt (Candice's father) aimed a gun and pulled the trigger; it does not matter whether his daughter or Luthor informed him about Clark, his previous, hostile interaction with Clark would always threaten another conflict, and with Emmitt knowing the secret, in that moment, Lois, Kyle, Chrissy and any other customer in the diner could have been killed there. Or, Emmitt would have the luxury of simply lying in wait to harm someone close to Clark at any time (and no, i'm not talking about the twins, since Emmitt would have reasoned that they share some genetic similarities with their father).
NOTES: Here's hoping Luthor comes roaring back (in the suit) in next week's "Sharp Dressed Man".
GRADE: C+.
True, the long list of homages and swipes date back to season one.
I anticipated that you wouldn't like the secret identity reveal. (I thought about posting as much in advance, but that seemed like baiting.) You've always been very wedded to that particular trope. But IMO, it's a shame it caused you to downgrade this superb episode so severely.
For myself, I have little use for secret identity stuff, but the one value the convention does have is that reveals are often great -- emotional, dramatic, and satisfying. And this episode made some of the best use of those "reveal" moments that I've ever seen.
For myself, I have little use for secret identity stuff, but the one value the convention does have is that reveals are often great -- emotional, dramatic, and satisfying. And this episode made some of the best use of those "reveal" moments that I've ever seen.
If by "this," you mean this season, then yes. Her last name was revealed several episodes ago, and what relation she might have to Jimmy was the subject of speculation a few pages back.
If by "this," you mean this season, then yes. Her last name was revealed several episodes ago, and what relation she might have to Jimmy was the subject of speculation a few pages back.
Oh, yes, I see that you mentioned it in discussing episodes 1 & 2. Odd -- I checked the revision history on the Arrowverse Wiki's "Janet Olsen" page before posting, and it looked like the title was only changed early this morning. I suppose the wiki's editors weren't as attentive as you were.
This felt like it could have an elseworlds one-off and I would have loved it just the same... Although technically this universe is kind of an elseworld since it's not really the main Superman universe anyway.
I can understand people not being happy at the reveal and Clark not doing more to try to reverse the damage and keep it a secret... but I think the events of this season and this episode just showed it was Clark's humanity that had him reveal it because it was no longer the TRUTH putting people around him in danger, but the LIE/SECRET was doing that.
Timmy may not be a good person (or had been), but as soon as his Mom started to treat him as being 'back on drugs' pretty much was going to destroy his 'second chance'. Something Clark's own son who took the same drug was getting.
When you saw Emmitt come into the diner and potentially put everyone at risk. When they all found out it was Luthor (who they all know actually knows their secret) it was going to be a situation where the secret itself was going to possibly cause more damage and put more people at risk than the reveal of the truth.
At least I think that's what the episode certainly wanted to convey. I can understand people still not agreeing and the long-time obsession with superheroes needing to keep their identities secret... but I really REALLY liked this episode a lot and I think it was another example of just showcasing the humanity of Clark in this series.
I can understand people not being happy at the reveal and Clark not doing more to try to reverse the damage and keep it a secret... but I think the events of this season and this episode just showed it was Clark's humanity that had him reveal it because it was no longer the TRUTH putting people around him in danger, but the LIE/SECRET was doing that.
Timmy may not be a good person (or had been), but as soon as his Mom started to treat him as being 'back on drugs' pretty much was going to destroy his 'second chance'. Something Clark's own son who took the same drug was getting.
When you saw Emmitt come into the diner and potentially put everyone at risk. When they all found out it was Luthor (who they all know actually knows their secret) it was going to be a situation where the secret itself was going to possibly cause more damage and put more people at risk than the reveal of the truth.
At least I think that's what the episode certainly wanted to convey. I can understand people still not agreeing and the long-time obsession with superheroes needing to keep their identities secret... but I really REALLY liked this episode a lot and I think it was another example of just showcasing the humanity of Clark in this series.
Yes. You don't keep people safe by keeping them ignorant. That's a fictional trope that deserves to be discredited. Hiding knowledge from people diminishes their power, and that makes them more vulnerable. And isn't Superman supposed to be fighting a neverending battle for truth and justice?
More specifically, it was the right choice in the context of this specific show, which has been about Clark and Lois raising a family and becoming part of the community of Smallville. Letting them into his life at long last is a suitable climax for that character arc, and for what the show has always been primarily about.
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