There have been a number of arrowverse episodes post crisis that show there are differences between what was established, pre-crisis, and what now exists post crisis. So Superman may not have killed Zod in post crisis arrowverse continuity.
Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!
- Thread starter The Realist
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He didn't do it pre-Crisis either. Winn's claim was contradicted by later references, as well as by Supergirl's repeated, explicit statements in earlier seasons that Superman doesn't kill. So presumably Winn was just wrong.
While its clear that Winn was not spinning a tale but recounting the fact Superman killed Zod, how many of the post-crisis characters retained their memories of their original lives?
As I understand it per the shows the Martian Manhunter visited as many heroes as he could who were involved and restored their pre-crisis memories.
That's right--and if Superman was one of the heroes, then he remembers he had to kill Zod, and in all likelihood does not have a "won't kill under any circumstances" rule.
and in the Donner cut he goes back in time and Zod returns to the Phantom zone. Also in a deleted scene that maybe Donner wasn't able to finish we see Zod and co getting arrested after this scene.
Yep. The theatrical version was what was meant to be seen, and Superman killed Zod. Superman has killed in the comics dating back to his earliest days, so there's no issue with the act now--including the Zod mentioned by Winn on Supergirl.
So what? Deleted scene. Didn't happen.
Except, as stated above, this was already contradicted pre-reboot.
Superman and Lois
Season 1 - Episode 13 - "Fail Safe"
Clark/SM: Superman and the imprisoned Edge go back and forth about loyalties, birthrights and other matters Edge tries to use to place doubt in SM's mind--talking about being uninhibited with his powers..not restricting himself around fragile humans (a species he believes should look at SM as a god).
Superman and Irons race to the D.O.D. to stop Larr from breaking Edge out. Defeating her, Larr is contained in yet another Kryptonite-powered cell. Sam intends to keep his promise to discard the rest of the Kryptonite weapons at the bottom of the ocean. SM suggests the weapons should not be destroyed, arguing that humanity needs a "fail safe" in the event he--or any other overpowered being threatens mankind again....
Lois: Lois tries to press her father to release a full statement about the entire Edge affair, but Sam--realizing the potential for negative consequences by saying more than he should--suggests Lois simply report the bare minimum. This approach pissess off Chrissy, who accuses Lois of protecting the D.O.D. and her father, and is so unreasonably hard-assed about an obviously sensitive situation, that she pretty much gives Lois her walking papers.
Sam tells Lois that he's concerned about Clark wanting the Kryptonian weapons preserved; Lois immediately jumps to the conclusion that Clark fears he may turn again, but is still troubled about being less than honest with Chrissy. Clark reminds her that as reporters, they've always played "fast and loose" with "journalistic integrity" ('ya think?), so Lois' situation should not be held to some higher standard (SEE NOTES). Fueled by anger, she insists that Clark's stand about the weapons is wrong, but has to leave to pick up Jordan from the police station.
Later, Clark tries to convince Lois of his wanting a fail safe, using the conversation with Edge as evidence--and a revelation about himself, specifically that it felt good to let go--to use his powers at their fullest--the very reason Sam needs to keep the weapons. Lois finally agrees--only if Irons is the only one with access / means to kill Superman, if necessary. Initially, Irons rejects the idea, as he now has a friendship with Clark, and believes he will not fall to evil, but he relents...
Lois returns to the office, giving Chrissy the D.O.D. statement, just falling shy of filling in details about what she knows, for obvious personal reasons.
Irons: Temporarily living in the Kent barn, Irons believes he should go his own way once Larr is found. It seems his sense of loneliness is still stemming from the loss of his family, and I'd wager part of his issue is having to look at another Lois. His A.I. suggests he finally meets the earth's version of his sister, but he's interrupted by Jonathan, who was a moment away from having a heart-to-heart with Irons (about being more than one thing--or who he thought he was), when Clark questions Jonathan for ditching school.
Jordan/Jonathan: While Jordan and Sarah ditch school to just take a breather from recent events, Jonathan meets the older Tegan, who previously ignored him. Tegan suggests they take their own free day, and drive out to a secluded area, but it turns out that she only wanted information about Edge business. Feeling used, a disappointed Jonathan walks home.
Meanwhile, Sarah takes Jordan to the CW-Bridge to Terabithia, and spills information about her past, ethnicity, etc., and the two share a kiss, but their teenage passion is stopped cold by Smallville police (the wages of ditching school...).
Lana/Kyle/Sarah: Kyle is still "soft" banned from work, and Lana has been fired from the bank outright, while the townspeople still blame Kyle for all things Edge. Despite Kyle accusing his former co-workers of selling Edge to the townspeople as much as he did, Kyle is still viewed as Edge's point-man / lackey. With no job options in town, Kyle considers moving from Smallville. Lana overhears the mayor (who promised to help Kyle) crapping on Kyle as the reason for the Edge disaster, and chews him out. Speaking to Lois about her frustrations and sense of betrayal, she now feels Smallville is not the town she used to love (SEE NOTES).
Edge / Larr: Sooo, Edge still suffers from disappointed daddy issues, going on and on and on about resurrecting dead Kryptonians, and refusing to divulge the whereabouts of Larr. Ultimately, Edge is fed up with daddy's grand plan and decides to find a less suicidal way of resurrecting his people. Fueled by the consciousness of countless Kryptonian souls/minds, he escapes the D.O.D., flies to the sun and is apparently "juicing" himself up with yellow sun energy as the Kryptonian voices all implore him to become the Eradicator...
NOTES: The showrunners seem to be telegraphing more teenage drama between the bonding Jordan and Sarah with the threat of her family moving away. I would hope that does not happen, as teenage angst has already worn out its welcome on this series.
Lois' arguments with Clark made her seem highly irrational, with her journalistic "oath" business, as if that profession has been a pillar of--as Clark put it--journalistic integrity, which was so funny because I know he's so right. Further, secrecy (or in this case, government business) is a necessary part of life / work where highly sensitive (or dangerous) information is concerned; as a reporter, she should be fully aware of that.
The way Clark speaks about himself as a threat, and the lack of beings who would be able to challenge him seems like the showrunners are pretty much saying the world of Superman and Lois is very disconnected from the rest of the Arrowverse (and Diggle's recent guest appearance does not alter that perception).
Next episode airs 8/10.
GRADE: C
Season 1 - Episode 13 - "Fail Safe"
Clark/SM: Superman and the imprisoned Edge go back and forth about loyalties, birthrights and other matters Edge tries to use to place doubt in SM's mind--talking about being uninhibited with his powers..not restricting himself around fragile humans (a species he believes should look at SM as a god).
Superman and Irons race to the D.O.D. to stop Larr from breaking Edge out. Defeating her, Larr is contained in yet another Kryptonite-powered cell. Sam intends to keep his promise to discard the rest of the Kryptonite weapons at the bottom of the ocean. SM suggests the weapons should not be destroyed, arguing that humanity needs a "fail safe" in the event he--or any other overpowered being threatens mankind again....
Lois: Lois tries to press her father to release a full statement about the entire Edge affair, but Sam--realizing the potential for negative consequences by saying more than he should--suggests Lois simply report the bare minimum. This approach pissess off Chrissy, who accuses Lois of protecting the D.O.D. and her father, and is so unreasonably hard-assed about an obviously sensitive situation, that she pretty much gives Lois her walking papers.
Sam tells Lois that he's concerned about Clark wanting the Kryptonian weapons preserved; Lois immediately jumps to the conclusion that Clark fears he may turn again, but is still troubled about being less than honest with Chrissy. Clark reminds her that as reporters, they've always played "fast and loose" with "journalistic integrity" ('ya think?), so Lois' situation should not be held to some higher standard (SEE NOTES). Fueled by anger, she insists that Clark's stand about the weapons is wrong, but has to leave to pick up Jordan from the police station.
Later, Clark tries to convince Lois of his wanting a fail safe, using the conversation with Edge as evidence--and a revelation about himself, specifically that it felt good to let go--to use his powers at their fullest--the very reason Sam needs to keep the weapons. Lois finally agrees--only if Irons is the only one with access / means to kill Superman, if necessary. Initially, Irons rejects the idea, as he now has a friendship with Clark, and believes he will not fall to evil, but he relents...
Lois returns to the office, giving Chrissy the D.O.D. statement, just falling shy of filling in details about what she knows, for obvious personal reasons.
Irons: Temporarily living in the Kent barn, Irons believes he should go his own way once Larr is found. It seems his sense of loneliness is still stemming from the loss of his family, and I'd wager part of his issue is having to look at another Lois. His A.I. suggests he finally meets the earth's version of his sister, but he's interrupted by Jonathan, who was a moment away from having a heart-to-heart with Irons (about being more than one thing--or who he thought he was), when Clark questions Jonathan for ditching school.
Jordan/Jonathan: While Jordan and Sarah ditch school to just take a breather from recent events, Jonathan meets the older Tegan, who previously ignored him. Tegan suggests they take their own free day, and drive out to a secluded area, but it turns out that she only wanted information about Edge business. Feeling used, a disappointed Jonathan walks home.
Meanwhile, Sarah takes Jordan to the CW-Bridge to Terabithia, and spills information about her past, ethnicity, etc., and the two share a kiss, but their teenage passion is stopped cold by Smallville police (the wages of ditching school...).
Lana/Kyle/Sarah: Kyle is still "soft" banned from work, and Lana has been fired from the bank outright, while the townspeople still blame Kyle for all things Edge. Despite Kyle accusing his former co-workers of selling Edge to the townspeople as much as he did, Kyle is still viewed as Edge's point-man / lackey. With no job options in town, Kyle considers moving from Smallville. Lana overhears the mayor (who promised to help Kyle) crapping on Kyle as the reason for the Edge disaster, and chews him out. Speaking to Lois about her frustrations and sense of betrayal, she now feels Smallville is not the town she used to love (SEE NOTES).
Edge / Larr: Sooo, Edge still suffers from disappointed daddy issues, going on and on and on about resurrecting dead Kryptonians, and refusing to divulge the whereabouts of Larr. Ultimately, Edge is fed up with daddy's grand plan and decides to find a less suicidal way of resurrecting his people. Fueled by the consciousness of countless Kryptonian souls/minds, he escapes the D.O.D., flies to the sun and is apparently "juicing" himself up with yellow sun energy as the Kryptonian voices all implore him to become the Eradicator...
NOTES: The showrunners seem to be telegraphing more teenage drama between the bonding Jordan and Sarah with the threat of her family moving away. I would hope that does not happen, as teenage angst has already worn out its welcome on this series.
Lois' arguments with Clark made her seem highly irrational, with her journalistic "oath" business, as if that profession has been a pillar of--as Clark put it--journalistic integrity, which was so funny because I know he's so right. Further, secrecy (or in this case, government business) is a necessary part of life / work where highly sensitive (or dangerous) information is concerned; as a reporter, she should be fully aware of that.
The way Clark speaks about himself as a threat, and the lack of beings who would be able to challenge him seems like the showrunners are pretty much saying the world of Superman and Lois is very disconnected from the rest of the Arrowverse (and Diggle's recent guest appearance does not alter that perception).
Next episode airs 8/10.
GRADE: C
I'll give this one an "A." Tulloch manages in that one scene with Clark at the car to make their preposterous lives feel real and grounded, and their relationship as a married couple with children believable.
Without her, this would be just another Arrowverse show.
Clark comes off as a classic too-busy career guy - he's of minimal help with discipline, shows the kids affection and tries to pal with them when he is home to compensate, and when he occasionally helps with discipline for a minute has that " okay, my job's done" air about him. Mom has to ride herd on the boys, run the household, and clue Clark in to This Is What The Fuck Goes On Here Every Day.
I really like her.
Without her, this would be just another Arrowverse show.
Clark comes off as a classic too-busy career guy - he's of minimal help with discipline, shows the kids affection and tries to pal with them when he is home to compensate, and when he occasionally helps with discipline for a minute has that " okay, my job's done" air about him. Mom has to ride herd on the boys, run the household, and clue Clark in to This Is What The Fuck Goes On Here Every Day.
I really like her.
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Yes. They said it was a few times.
This show writes Superman/Clark so well. "Disrespecting the work your teachers put into their classes." That's perfect. And I loved the conversation with Lois about how he's spent his entire life learning to stay in control and never let go.
Still, it is getting frustrating that when the subject of who could stop Superman comes up, nobody mentions his cousin.
The show handles Lois perfectly too. The rant about how she had to stay mad to deal with Jordan so she couldn't settle her argument with Clark yet was funny.
But how did Lois convince Sam to give a statement?
I wonder if the Cushings will really leave town. I doubt it -- it would be odd to continue the show without Lana, and surely there's still more the show can do with Sarah and Kyle. I guess they'll find some way to win back the townspeople's trust by the finale, but at this point it's hard to see how.
Also, how does someone whose family came from Mexico end up with the surname Cushing? I guess they trace that lineage through the maternal line of some generation or other?
Still, it is getting frustrating that when the subject of who could stop Superman comes up, nobody mentions his cousin.
The show handles Lois perfectly too. The rant about how she had to stay mad to deal with Jordan so she couldn't settle her argument with Clark yet was funny.
But how did Lois convince Sam to give a statement?
I wonder if the Cushings will really leave town. I doubt it -- it would be odd to continue the show without Lana, and surely there's still more the show can do with Sarah and Kyle. I guess they'll find some way to win back the townspeople's trust by the finale, but at this point it's hard to see how.
Also, how does someone whose family came from Mexico end up with the surname Cushing? I guess they trace that lineage through the maternal line of some generation or other?
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