Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

[Guy Gardener]

The special effects are very different.

Superman seems stronger than Supergirl because of the scope of the effects that they are using compared to the campy budget on Supergirl.

CW Kara needs gravity to fly.

Past earths gravity, she's a buoy.

Superbuoy.

 

[Christopher]

I was just reading a collection of Justice League/Justice Society "Crisis" crossover stories from the Silver Age, mostly by Gardner Fox, with a few from Denny O'Neil in the late '60s. Fox gave his heroes and villains all sorts of absurdly miraculous powers to suit the whims of the stories. Even Superman sometimes seemed weak compared to magic-wielding characters like the Spectre, Doctor Fate, and Thunderbolt. I prefer it when superpowers have a certain amount of restraint and logic applied to them.

There's a weird one where the evil Earth-One double of Johnny Thunder comes into possession of the genie-like Thunderbolt and orders him to go back in time and prevent the Justice League members from ever becoming superheroes. So we see him go back and do things like prevent lightning from striking Barry Allen, sabotage Professor Erdel's teleporter so J'onn J'onzz is never brought to Earth, and prevent Krypton from exploding (because he's that powerful), but when it came to undoing Batman's origin, he didn't go back and stop Joe Chill from killing the Waynes; rather, he went back to Batman's first night as a crimefighter and knocked him out with a sucker punch, so that Batman thought "I'm no good at this crimefighting business -- I should just go back to being a playboy." Wow. Fox did not get Batman at all.

It's even more bizarre, though, because evil Johnny then has Thunderbolt put a gang of crooks in place of the heroes at the moment of their origins -- which might work for the Flash, say, but how do you give a couple of human crooks the powers of Superman or Martian Manhunter, or convince Abin Sur's ring to pick a thug instead of Hal Jordan?

 

[crookeddy]

I was just reading a collection of Justice League/Justice Society "Crisis" crossover stories from the Silver Age, mostly by Gardner Fox, with a few from Denny O'Neil in the late '60s. Fox gave his heroes and villains all sorts of absurdly miraculous powers to suit the whims of the stories. Even Superman sometimes seemed weak compared to magic-wielding characters like the Spectre, Doctor Fate, and Thunderbolt. I prefer it when superpowers have a certain amount of restraint and logic applied to them.

There's a weird one where the evil Earth-One double of Johnny Thunder comes into possession of the genie-like Thunderbolt and orders him to go back in time and prevent the Justice League members from ever becoming superheroes. So we see him go back and do things like prevent lightning from striking Barry Allen, sabotage Professor Erdel's teleporter so J'onn J'onzz is never brought to Earth, and prevent Krypton from exploding (because he's that powerful), but when it came to undoing Batman's origin, he didn't go back and stop Joe Chill from killing the Waynes; rather, he went back to Batman's first night as a crimefighter and knocked him out with a sucker punch, so that Batman thought "I'm no good at this crimefighting business -- I should just go back to being a playboy." Wow. Fox did not get Batman at all.

It's even more bizarre, though, because evil Johnny then has Thunderbolt put a gang of crooks in place of the heroes at the moment of their origins -- which might work for the Flash, say, but how do you give a couple of human crooks the powers of Superman or Martian Manhunter, or convince Abin Sur's ring to pick a thug instead of Hal Jordan?

Silver age stories were written for kids, and they knew it. Logic was very much optional.

 

[dupersuper]

I don't see what's dumb about it. I mean, the way Kryptonians fly has no good explanation, but we can assume it requires pushing against something,

Can we? Waid just said they produce gravitrons. Byrne gave them very low level telekinesis.

As I said, it depends on the era -- the post-Crisis comics and the DC Animated Universe said they couldn't fly or breathe in space.

DCAU Superman couldn't breath in space, but could still fly.

A little correction. Immediately post-Crisis Superman coulnd't breath in space but he could fly (sometimes he used a breathing apparatus).

Gotta' love that Gammill Superman art.

Maybe only males can fly in space and women can't because of some biological reason.

They're reverse Gelflings?

 

[Christopher]

Can we? Waid just said they produce gravitrons. Byrne gave them very low level telekinesis.

Gravitons attract objects to each other, so they wouldn't be of much use in empty space with nothing to pull toward. And telekinetic force would still be a force. Sure, you can throw sense out the window and have it happen by magic, but what I'm saying is that it makes slightly more sense if it follows some basic physical rules like action and reaction. I don't agree that it's "dumb" to prefer it to make more sense. I think that's a contradiction in terms.

 

[dupersuper]

Gravitons attract objects to each other, so they wouldn't be of much use in empty space with nothing to pull toward. And telekinetic force would still be a force. Sure, you can throw sense out the window and have it happen by magic, but what I'm saying is that it makes slightly more sense if it follows some basic physical rules like action and reaction. I don't agree that it's "dumb" to prefer it to make more sense. I think that's a contradiction in terms.

Meh: I'm happy with a pseudoscience hand-wave if it gives me Superman space adventure.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Gravitons attract objects to each other, so they wouldn't be of much use in empty space with nothing to pull toward. And telekinetic force would still be a force. Sure, you can throw sense out the window and have it happen by magic, but what I'm saying is that it makes slightly more sense if it follows some basic physical rules like action and reaction. I don't agree that it's "dumb" to prefer it to make more sense. I think that's a contradiction in terms.

The contradiction results when trying to make sense of Superman's powers. You can dress Superman's powers up in technobabble all you want, but at the end of the day they are still magical. Neither yellow sunlight bestowing superpowers that are eliminated under red sunlight nor extragalactic physical laws have any basis in actual science whatsoever. To pretend otherwise and claim that technobabble makes it somehow more reasonable is actually to suck the fun from it.

 

[Skipper]

The contradiction results when trying to make sense of Superman's powers. You can dress Superman's powers up in technobabble all you want, but at the end of the day they are still magical. Neither yellow sunlight bestowing superpowers that are eliminated under red sunlight nor extragalactic physical laws have any basis in actual science whatsoever. To pretend otherwise and claim that technobabble makes it somehow more reasonable is actually to suck the fun from it.

Amen to that. And fundamentally, virtually every super power out there breaks the laws of conservation of energy, so it's quite useless even trying to explain them in scientific terms. Lately, they are handwaving them with "extra-dimensional energy" (i.e. the speed force or the source of Cyclop's optic beams) which is an explanation equivalent to "magic".

 

[Christopher]

Meh: I'm happy with a pseudoscience hand-wave if it gives me Superman space adventure.

You can have a Superman space adventure by giving him a spacesuit and a ship, like S:TAS did. Heck, for me, that's cooler than just having him fly in space in tights and cape, because he gets neat accessories.

 

[F. King Daniel]

DCAU Superman couldn't breath in space

Since when did Superman need to breathe?

 

[Christopher]

Since when did Superman need to breathe?

One more time: Superman has been reinvented and reinterpreted many times over the decades, both in the comics and in screen adaptations. Different versions have handled his powers in different ways. Some versions don't need to breathe, others do.

And the Arrowverse, up to now, has been one of the continuities in which Kryptonians can't breathe or fly in space. So it would be unfortunate if they changed that. It doesn't matter if one version of a character is consistent with a different continuity's version, but it does matter that a given continuity stay consistent with itself.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Supergirl is premiering on Tuesday March 30th in the Superman & Lois time slot. S&L will return May 18th. It’s due to a Covid related production interruption

https://tvline.com/2021/03/05/supergirl-season-6-premiere-date-superman-lois-hiatus/

 

[The Realist]

Well, fuck me sideways. (Not that it won’t be nice to have Supergirl back.)

 

[Dark Gilligan]

I wonder if both boys have inherited equal but opposite power sets from their dad, explaining why Jordan can't manifest his abilities unless he's near John. Consider:
John has inherited Clark's ability to absorb and internalize solar energy (perhaps explaining his athletic prowess to a degree), but he can't manifest that energy externally.
Jordan has inherited Clark's external abilities, as already demonstrated, but he can't internally store energy.
John is the power source that Jordan taps into, and Jordan can't use his own powers if he's physically removed from John.
I dig the reversal here: the brash extroverted son has passive powers, while the quiet introverted son has aggressive powers. When the boys eventually suit up together as the Super Sons, even if only in jeans and S-shield tee shirts, it would be a nice nod to Silver Age continuity if one wears red and the other wears blue.

 

[JoeZhang]

A little correction. Immediately post-Crisis Superman coulnd't breath in space but he could fly (sometimes he used a breathing apparatus).

If I remember correctly - they hand-wave it away in a story where his powers increase out of control - even after they fix that problem he does not need to breath in space.

 

[Snaploud]

Grumpy Hologram Jor-el seems awfully attached to the idea that only powered Kryptonian descendents can continue the legacy of Krypton. Jor-el was presumedly powerless, after all, while he lived under a red star.

Emo Superboy is a pain when yelling at Clark. He is much more likeable when interacting with Jonathan. Hopefully the writers will dampen down the whole "Superman is an awful father for taking so much time saving the world" plotline.

 

[dupersuper]

You can have a Superman space adventure by giving him a spacesuit and a ship, like S:TAS did. Heck, for me, that's cooler than just having him fly in space in tights and cape, because he gets neat accessories.

Either one can make for good stories, but at some point I just like a Superman powerful enough to just zip around space. Accessories are for action figures.

 

[cylkoth]

Supes and Lois ups their Nielsen ratings haul to over 3 million for the premiere episode.
Additionally, the CW will continue to add scenes not shown during the broadcast version, to the online episode streams for the rest of the season.

 

[The Realist]

Additionally, the CW will continue to add scenes not shown during the broadcast version, to the online episode streams for the rest of the season.

Wow, okay. Wish this material would/could be included during the regular broadcast, but as I said before, I trust the extended cuts will at least be the versions included on the eventual Blu-ray release.

 

[Christopher]

Either one can make for good stories, but at some point I just like a Superman powerful enough to just zip around space. Accessories are for action figures.

As I've said, my preference is that a given version remain consistent within itself; what other interpretations of the character do is beside the point. And the Arrowverse has established that Kryptonians can't fly in space, so that should be the "fact" in this reality. I can buy a timeline reset changing the history of the world, but changing the physics and biology is harder to suspend disbelief about.

Although I guess Crisis established that every DC live-action universe is part of the multiverse, including ones where Superman had different powers. Still, those Supermen were played by different actors, so we can assume their realities are more "distant." This Superman still looks and sounds like the Earth-38 version.


Going off on a tangent here... writing that last sentence, it just struck me as odd that apparently the Crisis reset altered Superman's life history more radically than Supergirl's when Earth-38 was absorbed into Earth-Prime. Post-Crisis Supergirl seems to have pretty much the same life history except with more Flash teamups and with Lex rewritten as the "philanthropic" owner of the DEO. But Superman's life history is massively different, with him and Lois getting together and starting a family 14 years sooner. I wondered why that discrepancy would exist, but it occurred to me that maybe it's because Supergirl came to Earth 24 years later, and lived a quiet life as Kara Danvers until 6 years ago. So there would have been fewer opportunities for alteration to her life trajectory.