Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

[Christopher]

It's good that episode 2 focused more on Lois, who is supposed to be an equal title character, and gave her a reason of her own for leaving the Planet rather than just having it be an extension of Clark's decision. It's also good to see the brothers sticking together, rather than turning on each other over the issues between them.

It's an interesting choice to name the Smallville newspaper editor Chrissy Beppo, sharing a name with Beppo the Super-Monkey from the Silver Age Superman Family. That's probably the most revisionist use of a DC character name since early Arrow.

If Captain Luthor's version of Superman was evil and his side was fighting him, why do they have dog tags in the shape of the S-shield? Maybe it's like Superman: TAS's "Brave New Metropolis" where Superman turned dictator, and they were initially his enforcers but then he turned on them.

I still have trouble with how un-Arrowverse-like this show feels. I get that the Crisis was a chance to make some adjustments as needed, but everything here is changed from what we've seen on Supergirl, except for Hoechlin and Tulloch themselves. Sam Lane is different. Morgan Edge is totally different -- he's even English now. Kal-El's ship is different. The Fortress of Solitude is different. Even Krypton's history seems different. I just don't get why they've kept nothing.

I mean, the Fortress is surely a mostly digital set, right? It's too big not to be. So even if COVID restrictions preclude different shows mixing crews and shooting on each other's sets, you'd think that S&L could borrow the files for the digital Fortress from the SG team, and that it would be less expensive than building a whole new virtual Fortress. Just as it would be less expensive to reuse the original Kryptonian pod design. So they're going to more trouble than they have to in order to change everything, and I just don't get that.

 

[Mudd]

I still have trouble with how un-Arrowverse-like this show feels.

Best thing about it other than the casting. Anything reasonably well-written with some depth is gonna feel un-Arrowverse.

 

[thribs]

I don’t watch Batwoman but the trailers kept saying she’s been stabbed with kryptonite. Looks like we know where some is now.

 

[Christopher]

I don’t watch Batwoman but the trailers kept saying she’s been stabbed with kryptonite. Looks like we know where some is now.

Shot with a kryptonite "bullet," rather.

 

[Jayson1]

Have you met Lois Lane?

I actually thought the portrayal of Lois throughout was the very best thing about this second episode (not that it wasn't great overall). At this rate, Amy Adams may well have competition for Best Live-Action Lois Ever.

"Ocular release of energy."

Chrissy Beppo looks like a promising addition to the cast of characters, bringing a little more lightness to the proceedings.

Hoechlin, as always, was born for this gig. He personified Clark with perfect, unforced ease from his opening moments on Supergirl, and that continues here.

I think you meant to say Teri Hatcher and Margot Kidder are the best live action Lois.


Jason

 

[Dick Whitman]

Just saw on the official Facebook page that Episode 2 now streaming on the CW app is an extended cut. Curious. Have to check it out when I get home from work.

I have mixed feelings about inconsistencies with Supergirl’s version of Krypton. Seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog for Superman, the core character. to be determined by his cousins show. Which never seemed to have a thought out plan for that mythological. The nature of the Phantom Zone changed a number of times on Supergirl. As just one example.

I guess if they can improve on what Supergirl did I am ok with it. So far what we see of the Fortress is so bland and not alien at all. It just looks like an ice cave. Which does go back to the original comic version that he created himself. Which was closer to the Batcave. But with a lot of hi tech equipment and memorials to Krypton.

Seemed boring that he put the Crystal into a non descript block of ice.

 

[Mudd]

Adams, yeah...Hatcher, maybe. Until now.

The design of technology on this show - Krypton, Luthor's ship and armor - is more contemporary SF and less comic-booky.

 

[Jayson1]

It's good that episode 2 focused more on Lois, who is supposed to be an equal title character, and gave her a reason of her own for leaving the Planet rather than just having it be an extension of Clark's decision. It's also good to see the brothers sticking together, rather than turning on each other over the issues between them.

It's an interesting choice to name the Smallville newspaper editor Chrissy Beppo, sharing a name with Beppo the Super-Monkey from the Silver Age Superman Family. That's probably the most revisionist use of a DC character name since early Arrow.

If Captain Luthor's version of Superman was evil and his side was fighting him, why do they have dog tags in the shape of the S-shield? Maybe it's like Superman: TAS's "Brave New Metropolis" where Superman turned dictator, and they were initially his enforcers but then he turned on them.

I still have trouble with how un-Arrowverse-like this show feels. I get that the Crisis was a chance to make some adjustments as needed, but everything here is changed from what we've seen on Supergirl, except for Hoechlin and Tulloch themselves. Sam Lane is different. Morgan Edge is totally different -- he's even English now. Kal-El's ship is different. The Fortress of Solitude is different. Even Krypton's history seems different. I just don't get why they've kept nothing.

I mean, the Fortress is surely a mostly digital set, right? It's too big not to be. So even if COVID restrictions preclude different shows mixing crews and shooting on each other's sets, you'd think that S&L could borrow the files for the digital Fortress from the SG team, and that it would be less expensive than building a whole new virtual Fortress. Just as it would be less expensive to reuse the original Kryptonian pod design. So they're going to more trouble than they have to in order to change everything, and I just don't get that.

Any chance this Beppo character might secretly be a super-monkey or turn into one? I think a big chunk of the audience really wants to know and maybe even see this happen thus tying it back to the Silver Age Superman stuff.


Jason

 

[Jayson1]

Got a question. Why doesn't Supergirl pitch in more now that Clark wants to focus more on family. In theory couldn't she have engaged in these fights with al-Lex Luthor? Seems like the shoe now has to be on the other foot where we wonder why Supergirl doesn't show up more often to help out. Also when Superman told his kids who they are didn't he basically out Kara as well because they will now know Cousin Kara is like dad.


Jason

 

[Noname Given]

Seems rather dickish to only take Jordan to the fortress. Jonathon deserves to know his history as well. Also, could it be possible that Jordan needs to be close to his brother for his powers to work?

"Wonder Twins powers ACTIVATE!"
^^^
Please god...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Christopher]

I have mixed feelings about inconsistencies with Supergirl’s version of Krypton. Seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog for Superman, the core character. to be determined by his cousins show.

So should Marvel ignore past MCU continuity when they finally get around to the Fantastic Four because they're more "core characters" than Iron Man was? Heck, the Flash is more a "core" hero than Green Arrow, but it's not called the Flashverse.

I don't see this as a hierarchy. It's a shared universe. I just want it to be consistent. And as I said, it would probably be less expensive to reuse elements from Supergirl, so it seems like it's going out of its way to reject consistency, which is strange.

They even have a new composer, and aren't using Blake Neely's Superman theme, which I liked.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I find it interesting that you are saying that. You more than anyone pointed out the inconsistencies on Supergirl it’s whole run. Which version of Supergirl’s Krypton are they supposed to be consistent with? My memory is rusty but there were many. Originally Kryptonite was extremely rare and the only piece was at DEO and no one in general public knew about. Than with no explanations was very common and even known on Earth 1 before merger.

This is the Arrowverse. They make up stuff on the fly. Only referencing the past when it suits the current story and hope we forget the rest.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Oh I forgot- did you get the memo?

the whole multiverse was reset by Crisis...

 

[Jayson1]

Are we sure this show is even in the same time period as the other shows as opposed to maybe taking place 5 years into the future or something?


Jason

 

[Christopher]

I find it interesting that you are saying that. You more than anyone pointed out the inconsistencies on Supergirl it’s whole run. Which version of Supergirl’s Krypton are they supposed to be consistent with? My memory is rusty but there were many. Originally Kryptonite was extremely rare and the only piece was at DEO and no one in general public knew about. Than with no explanations was very common and even known on Earth 1 before merger.

Of course there were imperfections, but the broad strokes were consistent, like the design of the space pods and the Fortress. There were enough commonalities that you could buy into the conceit that it was a unified reality, which is why it mattered when they were inconsistent on the detail level. Here, there isn't anything recognizable.

Oh I forgot- did you get the memo?

the whole multiverse was reset by Crisis...

That works for something like Kal-El's pod, but not for the Fortress of Solitude. We saw the Fortress post-Crisis in Supergirl: "Deus Lex Machina," and it looked the same as it did pre-Crisis, and completely different than it looks here.

Besides, there is more to reacting to fiction than just "is it consistent/explainable?" That's the most superficial, least important level of analysis. We don't watch fiction so we can enter factoids on a wiki or win trivia contests; we watch it for enjoyment, for what it makes us think and feel. What I want to feel in the Arrowverse is a sense of continuity and interconnection. I wanted this show to be an elaboration of the Superman we saw in Supergirl, something that felt like it grew out of that version and felt connected to that familiar world. Instead, aside from using two of the same actors, this feels like a complete reboot. Of course the Crisis can be invoked to explain any change, but what I don't understand is why they chose to change it so drastically.

 

[cylkoth]

Are we sure this show is even in the same time period as the other shows as opposed to maybe taking place 5 years into the future or something?


Jason

At the very least, it takes place after Supergirl's current season, which was supposed to start last October, with S&L originally launching early February. So we shouldn't expect to hear any details on Kara's whereabouts until later-if at all.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

No opinion on Kirk Alyn, never saw more than a couple of minutes.

Oh, then you should watch the serials; Alyn was as good as anyone could get as Superman in that era, both in his portrayal of Kent and Superman.

Best thing about it other than the casting. Anything reasonably well-written with some depth is gonna feel un-Arrowverse.

You are not kidding.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Tulloch is fantastic as Lois. .

Agreed. At this point, she's only in second place to Amy Adams, who had the perfect combination of Lois being focused in her job, but had a genuine heart, which was never the case with the majority of other actresses' interpretation of the character.

 

[The Realist]

If Captain Luthor's version of Superman was evil and his side was fighting him, why do they have dog tags in the shape of the S-shield?

The S-shield is displayed upside-down on Captain Luthor's suit (check the left shoulder):

Probably the dog tags are worn the same way.

I think you meant to say Teri Hatcher and Margot Kidder are the best live action Lois.

I actually have considerable affection for every live-action Lois -- even the much-maligned Kate Bosworth. (All the Lanas too, for that matter.)

As an aside, Noel Neill is more fun as Lois in the Kirk Alyn serials than in her more subdued characterization on Adventures of Superman. She plays a couple of incredibly nasty tricks on Clark in an effort to scoop him. First, she drops a flash bulb out the window of their car, and when Clark gets out to investigate the loud "pop" (thinking they have a flat), she drives off without him. Later, she offers to let Clark borrow her car, then reports it stolen so he gets arrested.

Just saw on the official Facebook page that Episode 2 now streaming on the CW app is an extended cut. Curious. Have to check it out when I get home from work.

Thanks for this! I will check it out tonight as well. Probably it will answer something I wondered about last night, which was what happened to the "I really wish I could get drunk sometimes" line from the trailers (which looked to be from the BBQ scene).

I trust/assume the longer cut of the episode will be used on the eventual Blu-ray set.

 

[crookeddy]

Eeek. Only 1.25 million watched the second episode... WB gave the show a second season already, but yikes. For comparison, Flash got 1 million, Batwoman 0.46, Black Lighning 0.41, Walker 1.68 the last time it aired in February. Superman seems to cost a lot more to produce than those shows though...

Going further back the Arrow finale got 0.73.