Spoilers "Superman & Lois" Season 1 spoiler discussion!

[DigificWriter]

That's not bizarre, it's just how creativity works. Those "Aha!" moments when the tentative pieces you're shuffling around suddenly fall into a shape that's amazingly better than what you thought you wanted are possibly the most satisfying parts of the process, and hardly uncommon.

Yep.

One of the marks of a good storyteller is the ability to recognize better ideas if and/or when they come up and, if possible, pivot to incorporate them.

"The Stranger" being John Henry Irons is a better idea than his being Alexander Luthor, and the PTBs of S&L fortunately had the ability to adjust their storytelling plans in order to run with it.

 

[Sketcher]

The John Henry Irons reveal reminds me a lot of the early days of Arrow, where who we originally thought was Deathstroke ended up being Billy Wintergreen, and were introduced to far more interesting version of Deathstroke at the same time. If the S&L writers don't want to bring in Cryer, they're free to now utilize their alt. Luthor idea another time, and it'll probably be a far better story compared to what they could've done with the Stranger.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Going to be blunt here -
most complaints about “Captain Luthor” being really John Henry Irons are truly fans angry that they were “tricked” or “lied too”. They do not care about flexibility of creativity or storytelling.

They saw this as mental puzzle they had to solve and they feel the rules were changed in the middle of the game. The same types who are more concerned with filling information in a Wikipedia entry, that they can later memorize and claim authority of knowledge.

That is often the reason for negative reactions to surprise reveals in fandom. Nothing to do quality of storytelling or character. Rather that “fan theory” that they spent so much precious time decoding was a waste of time.

Ok I got that off my chest.... it applies to so many different things... needs to save that for use other places...

Me I thought it was great.

 

[Noname Given]

Going to be blunt here -
most complaints about “Captain Luthor” being really John Henry Irons are truly fans angry that they were “tricked” or “lied too”. They do not care about flexibility of creativity or storytelling.

They saw this as mental puzzle they had to solve and they feel the rules were changed in the middle of the game. The same types who are more concerned with filling information in a Wikipedia entry, that they can later memorize and claim authority of knowledge.

That is often the reason for negative reactions to surprise reveals in fandom. Nothing to do quality of storytelling or character. Rather that “fan theory” that they spent so much precious time decoding was a waste of time.

Ok I got that off my chest.... it applies to so many different things... needs to save that for use other places...

Me I thought it was great.

It's pretty similar to how they introduced the Martian Manhunter in the first season of Supergirl. That doesn't make it a bad storytelling element, and personally I think it's okay the way they did it.

That said I can see some people being upset that it's become somewhat of a trope for Arrowverse shows to introduce new characters. Again I didn't mind it because it's something that the comics have done all the time, and I'm not going to get upset at a TV series that is based on a comic book, and makes use of comic book storytelling methods. If anything I find that a plus for shows like these.

 

[Christopher]

Going to be blunt here -
most complaints about “Captain Luthor” being really John Henry Irons are truly fans angry that they were “tricked” or “lied too”. They do not care about flexibility of creativity or storytelling.

Wow. Have they never heard of misdirection? They must hate the mystery genre.

That is often the reason for negative reactions to surprise reveals in fandom. Nothing to do quality of storytelling or character. Rather that “fan theory” that they spent so much precious time decoding was a waste of time.

They don't get it. If your first theory was right, what do you do from then on? The good thing about having to abandon a theory is that you get to formulate a new one. That's why science is so satisfying. Every solution just creates new puzzles to solve. You never run out.

 

[theenglish]

I would've thought that went without saying. What else is advertising for? They don't interrupt our stories every few minutes just to be annoying and tedious, though they certainly do succeed at that.

And the recently fixed the glitch in their system that allows you to "skip" the ads.

 

[Snaploud]

I assume unskippable ads produce more revenue per viewer than broadcast ads. It's possible this system (pushing people into streaming (via extended editions) with unskippable ads) will be a failure, but we don't have enough information to judge. All we see is a drop in broadcast ratings, which weirdly enough could be evidence of their strategy working (as those viewers could be switching to streaming).

 

[Mudd]

Going to be blunt here -
most complaints about “Captain Luthor” being really John Henry Irons are truly fans angry that they were “tricked” or “lied too”. They do not care about flexibility of creativity or storytelling.

They saw this as mental puzzle they had to solve and they feel the rules were changed in the middle of the game. The same types who are more concerned with filling information in a Wikipedia entry, that they can later memorize and claim authority of knowledge.

That is often the reason for negative reactions to surprise reveals in fandom. Nothing to do quality of storytelling or character. Rather that “fan theory” that they spent so much precious time decoding was a waste of time.

Ok I got that off my chest.... it applies to so many different things... needs to save that for use other places...

Me I thought it was great.

Exactly.

"It's not good" often means to fans "it's not what i expected."

 

[Mudd]

This show is so different from the Arrowverse it's hard to believe it's produced by the same people.

 

[Mudd]

Well dayam!

 

[thribs]

That’s funny. I was thinking that they were being possessed by Zod’s army and that Edge was Zod, but then they reveal that bombshell.
So is he going by Kon-El?

 

[The Realist]

Another great episode, but I'm starting to wonder: Does Lucy Lane even exist post-Crisis? It seemed like some reference to Lois's sister would have been natural in those scenes talking about Sam being an absentee father and such.

 

[thribs]

Lucy is probably just getting the Supergirl treatment. They won’t mention her until she shows up

 

[CorporalClegg]

 

[The Realist]

It seems clear to me the "brother" thing doesn't have to be literal (though it also could be -- guess we'll see).

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Superman and Lois
Season 1 - Episode 9 - "Loyal Subjekts"

Clark/SM / Lois: Lois is still perplexed why Edge is staying in Smallville; through Lana's list of the 5 recruits, she learns that the recruits are going through what appears to be self-improvement gatherings, but Lois does not buy this overnight happiness explosion.

Clark learns Emily is feeling so different...empowered and suggests Clark see Lana in the hope of going through the same program....

As Superman, he foils a robbery at a bank in Mexico, but notices he's still suffering from breathing issues and rapid heartbeat brought on by the DOD's Kryptonite weapon (designed to compromise his respiratory system). He passes out, but recovers in enough time to stop the criminals. Back in Smallville, he discovers that his skin is severely bruised from the robbers' bullets. Shocked, Lois believes Clark may still suffer from the effects of the DOD's weapon.

Lois barges into Edge's meeting after seeing his ad for even more recruits; she warns the recruits that they are in danger, but Edge dismisses Lois' claim, referring to Lois as a has-been who the people will not believe over a man who is restoring jobs and a life to the residents. Pushing back against her claims he is essentially destroying humans with the essence of Kryptonians, he refers to Iron's prophecy that her personal savior--Superman--may like having more of his kind in the world...

Jordan grows closer to Sarah, but suddenly sneezes ice particles into his hand; Clark checks in on him, and surmises they are dealing with a similar problem, then rush to leave campus. Clark believes the effect of the DOD weapon is giving them the symptoms of a virus. A semi-apologetic Sam arrives and promises that his "guys" are working on finding a remedy to the weapon. Lois is so angry about her father pretty much plotting against her husband, that she demands that once he's found a cure for the Kryptonian's problems, he stay out of their lives--forever.

At the Fortress, holo-daddy explains what is happening to Jordan, and provides a remedy to Jordan's steadily freezing lungs...which requires burning it out of him, which actually works.

Chrissy discovers that Larr & the "motel attacker guy" were both from Smallville--its significant because Smallville residents were all exposed to the radiation from the X-Kryptonite meteor shower which occurred as Kal-El crashed on earth. The Smallville residents had been exposed to the X-K long enough to absorb and tolerate it, making them prime candidates for Edge's augmentation.

Before Clark and Lois can continue to address the problem, Edge contacts Superman, eventually meeting, only for a super-powered Edge to punch him aside. Edge finally reveals that he's an alien, and calls Superman "brother"...

Jonathan / Jordan Kent: Jonathan still argues that he he feels powerless and needs to have a means to defend himself..

Sam Lane: Jonathan questions Sam why he created the Kryptonite-powered weapons; Sam speaks of how powerful Superman is and how unprepared the world was for anyone like that. He argues that despite Jordan and Jonathan being twins, his brother's powers made him--and his father--very different from regular humans. Jonathan rejects where Sam is going with this, and says that unlike Sam, who he calls a "coward," he will never fear his father and brother.

Sometime later, as Sam speaks to the DOD about using the prototype, he spots Emily and "motel attacker guy" walking up to the Kent house...just as Lana calls Lois, discussing Emily's strange behavior, and Edge's offer...

Emily attacks Lois and Jonathan, and a second before she can kill them, Sam races into the house, firing the Kryptonite gas weapon at the Emily and her partner. Although the gas weakens the augments, they recover and easily defeat Sam, knocking him out.

In the barn, the fleeing Lois and Jonathan are suddenly approached by Kyle, who starts babbling about Lana, but its not long before Emily and the "motel attacker guy" find them; Jonathan removes barn floorboards and reveals one of Iron's super-weapons, which he uses to blow Emily & the other attacker across the barn. Lois is shocked that her son stole the weapon, but he reminds her that his argument that they're powerless was just proven by the attack. Kyle--as it turns out--has been also been augmented and tries to aid in the would-be killing mission, but he is send soaring into the night by Superman.

Sam recovers, and admits he was not the best father for Lois as she was having rough times as a child, and regrets hurting his family. Realizing how they are all in danger, Sam will not leave Smallville until he gets to the bottom of the Edge/X-Kryptonite threat.

Kyle/Lana/Sarah: According to Sarah, Kyle seems to be going through some issues where one moment he's up, and down the next....

At the high school talent show, Sarah freezes up and is about to leave the stage, when Kyle comes through, accompanying her on guitar, giving her the confidence to shine with her song....

In the audience, Emily suddenly hears a noise and in a trance-like state, leaves the school. It turns out that the noise was a signal from Edge, or more accurately described as activation of his "loyal subjekts" to kill Lois...

After being beaten away from the Kent barn, Kyle returns home, and tells Lana that he has no idea what happened to him--or how he ended up bruised. Suspecting the worst, Lana asks if Edge made him that offer, and sure enough, Kyle coughs up the truth--he did go through the process, explaining that he wanted to be a better man for her and their daughters....

Edge / Larr: Edge promises to "improve" his recruits--"activating" a new life from the problem-laded one they're currently living. Emily--for one--agrees to become as Edge puts it--her "best self."

Edge goes on to accuse Lana of snooping in on business that does not concern her (on behalf to Lois), but shifts the conversation to offering her the same "changes" he's giving the other recruits...

NOTES:

So, the plot thickens as Edge claims to be Kal-El's brother. One would hope Superman is not naive enough to even consider the story, which--in all obviousness--does not justify his experiments on innocent humans.

GRADE: B.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

This show is so different from the Arrowverse it's hard to believe it's produced by the same people.

Heh!

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Those possessed folk are lucky Sam didn’t shoot them, I think given the circumstances he’d be justified and in character doing so but I guess that's too dark a place for them to go in this show.

Not a flaw with this adaptation specifically necessarily but you have to wonder about Superman’s filter process. Not sure a bank robbery in Mexico is the best place he could apply his unique skill set. They do keep presenting his powers as fearsome and intimidating which is a departure from other shows. I wouldn’t want to get on this Supe’s bad side.

 

[theenglish]

I assume unskippable ads produce more revenue per viewer than broadcast ads. It's possible this system (pushing people into streaming (via extended editions) with unskippable ads) will be a failure, but we don't have enough information to judge. All we see is a drop in broadcast ratings, which weirdly enough could be evidence of their strategy working (as those viewers could be switching to streaming).

And considering CW viewers skew younger than many other networks, it is more likely they have a tech savvy audience more likely to have an internet connection and a computer than cable and a television.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I had been wondering for awhile if there was more to Morgan Edge than we knew.

I imagine he is not Kal-El’s actual brother. He was wearing a different Kryptonian symbol, meaning different family, House.

When talking about the choice of using John Henry Irons the writers said they had a long list of pre approved comic book characters available for this series to use. So it’s likely a Kryptonian from the comics. Zod was previously mentioned and seen on Supergirl. But with history reset post Crisis, who knows? Jax-Ur is a Kryptonian scientist who tended to be more important in the comics until Terence Stamp’s portrayal made Zod the more popular choice.

I also wonder if “Edge” might be from another Earth in the Multiverse like Irons is? Maybe even the same one. That he also survived Crisis.