Stupid Stuff in TNG

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by gakelly, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not to mention Troi beating Data in chess.

    “Chess is a game of instinct!”

    No. No it’s not. Or, it is one for humans not competing at the highest levels. But thorough computation trumps instinct every time.
     
  2. uniderth

    uniderth Commodore Commodore

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    Wrong. Everyone knows there's no money in the future. So it's impossible that his work was funded in any way.

    Since I'm a time traveler from the future I'll show you mine. Ok, I lied. I'm really a time traveler from the past.
     
  3. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    I disagree. It's more a product of its time so most things 80s regarding "drugs are bad, boo!" just aren't going to hold up. But - and here's where it gets interesting - it's Yar's own background her impassioned take on it makes it far less cringey and, indeed, gives it a fair amount of gravitas. Or that's IMHO. Yar Tasha was indeed a noble and strong character. I still wonder how much season 3 onward would take her character to new heights. Or season 2, had that strike not took place as season 2 was showing so much substantial amount of improvement for the show that it is where the show first achieved greatness - even before season 3, which took things even higher. But it's easy and fun to lament. Denise did much with what she had at the time, which was a lot.

    Now for real cringe, this one's easy: Look at Ishara Yar's blue outfit. Made Peri from Doctor Who look like she was wearing seven layers of clothing by comparison... (but Ishara's leather gear was definitely appealing as well as making her look as clothed as everyone else was, why sci-fi felt it had to be "for the dads" when even the late-60s onward were increasingly showing more than stick figures in tight outfits for some audiences while not letting males be as objectified in turn for other audiences... apart from Buck Rogers or any other show where the male has to have a ripped shirt... it's a matter of degree, pandering, or why doing it at all...)
     
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  4. Cutie McWhiskers

    Cutie McWhiskers Commodore Commodore

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    ^^this, especially when some moves create various avenues for strategic advantage. Knowing every move ahead of time that both sides can make is about computation. A computer will always win unless it's programmed for a novice setting that ignores various possibilities in hopes the player makes a move it has not calculated for.

    Chess is just not poker. Wake me when a poker game requires one player sitting there for half an hour or more while the little clock next to said player is going "tick... tick... tick..." and the ushers are handing out free doses of no-doze... and people think golf is boring?!

    Then again, Chess has a limited number of pieces and strategies and guessing in advance the number of opposing team strategies as well as planning for every last one of them. Real life is eminently more complex and more convoluted than two sides, each having 16 pieces, with each piece having various restrictions on where it can go and why, on a 64 piece board that Number Six fumed over having to be on. Pico Fermi prevailing, Troi was still talking about poker and Data, despite being the best chess player, was scripted not to see that. Now imagine if AI wrote the scripts... imagine if humans wrote less plothole-laden scripts using cheap muzak, rabid pacing, and zillion dollar effects to distract from whatever emosh issue is being whined about in such an incomplete, one-dimensional, one-sided manner this week. But AI is about logic. Emotional depth is what adds in the drama, suspense, thrill, etc, that make those pesky plotholes forgivable. At least if the situation and characters are given some decent material. Humans understand this. AI does not, until it's programmed to - followed by it going against its own programming due to an internal epiphany and not due to external influence (which includes "bugs").
     
  5. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

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    Speaking of that, i found it hilarious that they gave her a matching blue phaser holster.
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    I think the "First City" makes it even more cringeworthy
     
  7. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Captain Captain

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    Star fleet is not a military :guffaw:
     
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  8. gakelly

    gakelly Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    "When the Bough Breaks"
    The people on the planet kidnaps 7 kids, which will save their civilization's population.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Any scene in "The Neutral Zone" dealing with the people from the 20th century and how the crew treated them like dogshit.

    Agreed.

    Though I do wonder what a "realistic" version of that scene would have been like.
     
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  10. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Captain Captain

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    Yeah....The crew do not come off as "enlightened" but superior, judgemental, bigoted douche bags.
     
  11. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  12. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    Why was this so bad?
     
  13. cgervasi

    cgervasi Commander Red Shirt

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    I was 12 y/o and had never heard an adult say that drugs are fun before that episode. People portrayed drug dealers as pushers on a mission to get people hooked and take advantage of them. I had never heard that some people take drugs without getting hooked or ODing and that their dealers are acquaintances who see themselves as providing a service.

    As a 12 y/o viewer I thought that Drug typically worked as in this episode, with the Brekkians intentionally tricking the Ornarans into getting addicted and becoming their slaves. Data was saying aloud that drug use is a redcurrant theme in history. Yar was talking about people choosing drugs, knowing the risks, because they felt good. The plot was more consistent with the Just Say No propaganda narrative I had heard. Yar's comments were closer to the truth.
     
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  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Except she never did.

    Instead, Data beat Data in chess:

    Troi made a random move. Data then played seven turns of chess in his head and defeated himself.

    Troi could have made all sorts of moves in those seven turns, only one set of which would lead into the victory Data describes. The victory is Data's, then, and Data's only. And all is as it ought to be, since the purpose of the game was for the two to enjoy it, and the outcome maximized that bit!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Armus

    Armus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Visually that image was unforgettable even if it didn't make sense.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  16. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Troi didn’t make a random move though, she was trying to throw Data off his scripts. Lure him into applying classic wisdom.

    That should never work against a computer.

    A more reasonable ‘out’ is that Data learned to throw matches against humans to disarm them.
     
  17. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Perhaps credentials could have some sort of half-life based dating system in them in the future, since time travel will be a thing. However, I'm not sure that eliminates the problem here, since 1. I think we've seen in other episodes that the tech of TNG could counterfeit the results, therefore making it useless, and 2. It implies that Rasmussen had the ability to counterfeit the credentials using stuff he found in the ship he stole. With his 22nd century knowledge. That should be WELL known in the 24th.

    I think it's more likely that Rasmussen made his bluff check and convinced Picard of his sincerity, and Picard rolled with it. Doh.
    "I don't see you guys rating
    The kind of mate *I'm* contemplating.
    I'd let you watch, I would invite you,
    But the queens we use would NOT excite you."

    ;)
     
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  18. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Beverly Crusher being appointed "head of Starfleet Medical" when she was only a Commander. I would imagine that the position of "Head of Starfleet Medical" is somewhat comparable to the US Navy Surgeon General who is a three-star admiral. Either the Starfleet Medical Corps is a very small thing (unlikely given other evidence) or the writer's were just not caring/paying attention to what they were writing.
     
  19. Kilana2

    Kilana2 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep, that was odd. She could have lead a sub department, though.
     
  20. Nakita Akita

    Nakita Akita Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My pet peeve was the stupid flashlights that I'm pretty sure I would have not been able to even hold with one hand, probably like a lot of women.
    Plus what a stupid inconvenient way to hold your hand.