Stuff that make you wonder but not own thread worthy

[at Quark's]

Going by one interpretation of time travel/temporal progression, everything and everyone that "was" quietly removed from existence (by whatever means) has already been removed; nobody missed anything because there was never anything to miss. While you process that implication, enjoy your mini-migraine.

Reminds me of some time travel story I once heard about, that played with that trope.

Set in a universe where time travel was possible, the two protagonists of the story take a walk through their neighborhood. A bench in a park catches the eye of one of them and he asks the other if he thinks there's anything suspicious about it. "What do you mean", the other replies, "that bench has been here for the last 25 years... there's nothing out of order". The other, slightly exasperated: "Yes, I know that bench has been there for the last 25 years ....but was that the case yesterday, too?"

I hold to a difference between in- and out-of-universe perspecive. For example, we have the original (TOS) timeline, that was then altered by the events in First Contact, resulting in an alternate timeline (Enterprise, Discovery, etc). For them, as in-universe, obviously, that always has been the timeline. It was never different to them; the original TOS timeline never existed. But for me, as an out-of-universe-observer, the original timeline was, and probably always will remain, what we see in TOS.

 

[Oddish]

Reminds me if a story called "Slippage", where the protagonist is being retroactively deleted from existence, but it's a slow process. He has to watch as all traces of him slowly vanish as the days creep by, only realizing just before he vanishes that he is a mistake, being edited from the cosmos. Then, he vanishes, and his last remaining friend forgets him moments later.

 

[Ragitsu]

Set in a universe where time travel was possible, the two protagonists of the story take a walk through their neighborhood. A bench in a park catches the eye of one of them and he asks the other if he thinks there's anything suspicious about it. "What do you mean", the other replies, "that bench has been here for the last 25 years... there's nothing out of order". The other, slightly exasperated: "Yes, I know that bench has been there for the last 25 years ....but was that the case yesterday, too?"

I don't want to spoil too much of Stargate SG-1 in the event you haven't seen it - or enough of it - and intend to eventually give the series a spin, but I will say this: there is a late Season episode where history is rewritten in a subtle but unmistakable way and the writing/characters portray it as a "Well, gee." situation. However, I find the idea of living in a timeline that I KNOW is different to my own temporal frame-of-reference to be monumentally unsettling. Chances are, I would eventually become insane while my mind wars with itself over the dissonance no one else could truly appreciate.

I hold to a difference between in- and out-of-universe perspecive. For example, we have the original (TOS) timeline, that was then altered by the events in First Contact, resulting in an alternate timeline (Enterprise, Discovery, etc). For them, as in-universe, obviously, that always has been the timeline. It was never different to them; the original TOS timeline never existed. But for me, as an out-of-universe-observer, the original timeline was, and probably always will remain, what we see in TOS.

Entities such as the Wormhole Aliens and the Q remain anchored (safe) in the universal timeline no matter who mucks about with the various causes and effects, yes? To what degree is time travel compatible with the multiverse (i.e., the other possible alternative realities)?

Reminds me if a story called "Slippage", where the protagonist is being retroactively deleted from existence, but it's a slow process. He has to watch as all traces of him slowly vanish as the days creep by, only realizing just before he vanishes that he is a mistake, being edited from the cosmos. Then, he vanishes, and his last remaining friend forgets him moments later.

That sounds similar to Back to the Future; only, in "Slippage", the protagonist apparently failed to thwart his erasure from history.

 

[Oddish]

The photo in "Back to the Future" really reminds me of the red digital timer on the inevitable bomb on an action movie, telling the protagonist how much time he has left. But a clever way to do it.

EDIT: Wish I could find the story, but Harlan Ellison published a short story collection tion by that title years later, and all internet searches lead there.

 

[at Quark's]

I don't want to spoil too much of Stargate SG-1 in the event you haven't seen it - or enough of it - and intend to eventually give the series a spin, but I will say this: there is a late Season episode where history is rewritten in a subtle but unmistakable way and the writing/characters portray it as a "Well, gee." situation. However, I find the idea of living in a timeline that I KNOW is different to my own temporal frame-of-reference to be monumentally unsettling. Chances are, I would eventually become insane while my mind wars with itself over the dissonance no one else could truly appreciate.

I haven't seen really much of Stargate. However, it seems Star Trek characters also are capable of shrugging off the timeline changing (and them remembering that), and taking it as a simple given. Janeway wasn't unsettled after the crew invented temporal shielding against the timeline manipulations of the Krenim and they were aware of the manipulations. Kira and Sisko said 'the Prophets work in mysterious ways' and basically shrugged their shoulders upon finding that Akorem now finished that originally unfinished famous 2-centuries-old poem of his.

I suppose if you are sufficiently inducted in the 'weird is part of the job' Starfleet way, you'll eventually learn to accept such things,

Entities such as the Wormhole Aliens and the Q remain anchored (safe) in the universal timeline no matter who mucks about with the various causes and effects, yes? To what degree is time travel compatible with the multiverse (i.e., the other possible alternative realities)?

The Q and the Prophets essentially share our 'out of universe' timeline view. With the difference of course, that they are still part of their universe, and we aren't.

There seems to be a story where the Q meet an even more powerful race, known as the "Them". A race that created their universe, and that now plan on cancelling it, since they are no longer entertained by it.

So, that would really be us.

 

[Ragitsu]

Gabriel Bell was/wasn't Benjamin Sisko all along.

 

[Oddish]

And Riker and Geordi were/weren't Zephram Cochrane's flight crew.

 

[Phoenix219]

I don't believe in predestination paradoxes. I just believe there was an original timeline layered under so many re-writes that we will never know or understand the original events.

Reminds me of some time travel story I once heard about, that played with that trope.

Set in a universe where time travel was possible, the two protagonists of the story take a walk through their neighborhood. A bench in a park catches the eye of one of them and he asks the other if he thinks there's anything suspicious about it. "What do you mean", the other replies, "that bench has been here for the last 25 years... there's nothing out of order". The other, slightly exasperated: "Yes, I know that bench has been there for the last 25 years ....but was that the case yesterday, too?"

I hold to a difference between in- and out-of-universe perspecive. For example, we have the original (TOS) timeline, that was then altered by the events in First Contact, resulting in an alternate timeline (Enterprise, Discovery, etc). For them, as in-universe, obviously, that always has been the timeline. It was never different to them; the original TOS timeline never existed. But for me, as an out-of-universe-observer, the original timeline was, and probably always will remain, what we see in TOS.

Agreed 100%. I could have posted that almost word for word. Completely aligns with my take on Trek-timelines and "visual reboots."

 

[serdogthehound]

Why is there all this talk about none organic life being unknown in Home Soil when We had the same conversation in "devil in the Dark"? rewatching on my trip though all trek that all I could think of

 

[Mojochi]

Why is there all this talk about none organic life being unknown in Home Soil when We had the same conversation in "devil in the Dark"? rewatching on my trip though all trek that all I could think of

Well, the conversation in Homesoil is coming from a place of it having been so microscopic as to have been easily missed.

The surprise wasn't so much that it was inorganic, but that it was so highly organized while being so small, that it also being inorganic made it nearly undetectable by standard measures. I doubt the same could be said of a Horta

 

[Dee1891]

I have a question regarding the Walter Pierce character from Season Seven's (7.18) "Eye of the Beholder". When Troi and Worf had questioned the character about his time at Utopia Planitia, during Enterprise-D's construction, were they questioning a ghost?

 

[Farscape One]

That questioning was while Troi was still inside her psychic experience.

 

[Dee1891]

That questioning was while Troi was still inside her psychic experience.

Oh. Okay. Thanks.

 

[Farscape One]

No problem. Unless you pay close attention, it's easy to get that episode mixed up in scenes.

A good clue is, ironically, not related to Troi at all. When you see no outside shots of the Enterprise, it's a dream, vision, holodeck... anything not real. A majority of that episode had no outside shotsof the ship... only the real sections of the story did you see it.

This applies to all of TNG.

 

[Summer Solstice]

No problem. Unless you pay close attention, it's easy to get that episode mixed up in scenes.

A good clue is, ironically, not related to Troi at all. When you see no outside shots of the Enterprise, it's a dream, vision, holodeck... anything not real. A majority of that episode had no outside shotsof the ship... only the real sections of the story did you see it.

This applies to all of TNG.

You have a very good eye for detail. Thanks for sharing - I would never have realised the significance of not seeing outside shots of the Enterprise.

 

[Ragitsu]

What about Data's dream?

 

[Farscape One]

We already knew going in that it was inside his head, and that the dream had the ship view within it.

When the plot calls for the audience to not know it's a dream, illusion, holodeck, etc. is when we don't see shots of the outside of the Enterprise, like in "Eye of the Beholder".

Probably the best example of this observation is "Frame of Mind"... except for the end right after Riker takes off his head restraint and gets beamed back, we never see the Enterprise. Seeing the ship let's us know we are in reality.

Or "Ship In A Bottle"... except for the beginning, the ending, and right before we see real Riker talk to Moriarty on the viewscreen, there are no shots of the Enterprise. That's because a vast majority of the episode was Picard, Data, and Barclay inside the holodeck.

"Future Imperfect" is another example... all scenes in the 'future' Enterprise had no ship shots.

Episodes that have themes play out like that, rewatch them and you'll see what I mean.

Even DS9 did this... take "DISTANT VOICES". Except for the very beginning and ending, no station shots. That's because the entire episode, except for the beginning and ending, took place inside Bashir's head.

 

[JesterFace]

@Farscape One
I have never noticed those things you mentioned, interesting.
Might have to keep an eye out for them next time watching some of those episodes.

 

[Orphalesion]

What about Data's dream?

The one with the electric sheep?

 

[Farscape One]

Ever since SNW premiered, I do have one question.

Did the Captain's quarters on the Enterprise get seriously downgraded when Pike left and Kirk took command?