Starships of the 2230's

[Redshirt214]

Ideas for what kind of ships would have been most needed then ( SF=Mainly Scout Ships? Destroyer? Cruiser?), and what kind of speeds and tech would be avalible ( Just Phasers, ala the Cage, or torpedoes also, like in Enterprise?).
Traditionally, I've always assumed that starfleet was composed of mainly scout ships with phasers,relied primarily on shuttlecraft,and had about max. warp 6 speeds.

 

[sojourner]

^Wouldn't be much of a Starfleet if it were just composed of scouts and shuttlecraft. I would guess at the time they still had the normal range of ship classes. Though what would have been classed a heavy cruiser in the 2230's might only be classed a scout in TNG's time.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Since Starfleet had warp 7 ships in 2161 ("These are the Voyages"), I'd guess they're around warp 8 in the 2230's.

The Kelvin was armed with beam phasers and pulse-phaser (?) turrets. The Kelvin didn't seem to have photon torpedoes. In light of Enterprise and STXI, I'd ignore the lasers of "The Cage" just as we ignore "James R. Kirk"

We know from STXI that ships of the time were comparitively big (457m) and heavily crewed (800+). I'd guess that the other ship classes made of Kelvin components seen in alt-2258 (Mayflower, Newton, Armstrong etc) were designed and in service at around the same time as the USS Kelvin was - and it was an old, somewhat worn-out ship in 2233. Since the USS Newton design was based on the Proxima-class battleship from the old Starfleet Command videogame, I'd imagine it's a battleship too.

 

[Redshirt214]

When I referenced "scouts" I was attempting to use the TOS\Fasa definition : a frigate type ship, much smaller than the Kelvin, which is more of a light cruiser. I think that the Kelvin is more the exception than the rule, given the "Advanced Weapons"comment from Kirk. I assume that given the size of the Kelvins that they were the direct sucessors to Constitutions, and in the '30's would have been new and a bit rare. As for the Kelvin,I think she was just due for a refit! Space was much bigger in the '30's, and I figured most of the last couple decades budgets had gone into rebuilding after the Earth-Romulan war, and thus these "Scouts" would be small and cheap, to offset the costs of building larger crusiers et al after the war. That's it ! The Kelvin must have been built in the late'20's to defend the gains in territory after the war!

 

[T'Girl]

The Kelvin was armed with beam phasers and pulse-phaser (?) turrets. The Kelvin didn't seem to have photon torpedoes. In light of Enterprise and STXI, I'd ignore the lasers of "The Cage" just as we ignore "James R. Kirk"

In both the prime and the alternate universe's, the hand phaser could have been a relatively resent development, preceded by the hand laser, which superseded the ridiculously low cyclic rate hand phase weapons of the ENT era.

Gary Mitchell was Jim Kirk's best friend and apparently arranged at least one of Kirk's major romances, I believe the "R" in James R. Kirk stood for Romeo. Being placed on Kirk's tombstone was Mitchell invoking a old tease.

 

[Redshirt214]

Fascinating.
Anyhow, back on topic.
So, Starships of the 2230's :
1. Relied mostly on beam weaponry
2. Had a cruising speed of warp 4, max warp 8.
3. Were in the normal size range for starships.
And now back to the Kelvin :
2229- Commissioned, penultimate pre-Constitution cruiser (CA)
2233- Minor Refit, computers replaced with Daystorm Duotronic Comps. Paint scheme changed to light gray.
2250-Major Refit to bring into line with Constitution class, Nacelle replaced with new fleet standard. Down graded to CL.
2270- Retired\Sold off. May stay in service in secondary roles.
Speaking of which...... what kind, if any, of torpedos would they have? Cobolt? Photonic? ( Pardon if my knowledge is a bit sketchy in the Ent. era, but I never really watched that show.).

 

[F. King Daniel]

Would it have been refit? In alt-2258, none of the Kelvin kitbash fleet had been upgraded externally and in the Prime 24th century, none of the TMP Enterprise-derived classes (Miranda, Constellation, DS9 kitbashes etc) had been upgraded to TNG specs.

I just remembered that Kirk's Kobayashi Maru simulation was set on a Kelvin-derived ship, and it did have photon torpedoes.

 

[blssdwlf]

Depends on which continuity

TOS 2230's (TOS)

1. Beam weapons (phasers and/or lasers)
2. Nuclear weapons (big enough to destroy starships)
3. Cruising speed between warp 2-4, nervous engineer at warp 7
4. +/- 50% size difference relative to TOS Connie
5. Cargo ships in 2260's had a max speed of warp 2

PRIME 2230's (PRIME->ST11)

1. Beam weapons (phasers)
2. Torpedo types (unknown)
3. Cruising and max warp speed (unknown)
4. Unknown size difference relative to TOS Connie (visually it looks like 2x or 3x size)

ENT 2230's (ENT->TNG/DS9/VOY->ST7->ST8->ST9->ST10)

1. Beam weapons (phase cannons and/or phasers)
2. Photonic/Photon torpedo
3. Cruising and max warp speed (unknown, likely Warp 7)
4. +/- 50% size difference relative to TOS Connie

Throughout the run of the series, I don't recall any "refitted" ship painted to a newer-era base paint color.

They did upgrade Excelsior (USS Lakota) to be the equivalent tech of the Defiant in DS9. More than likely other ships also received upgrades as well.

Fascinating.
Anyhow, back on topic.
So, Starships of the 2230's :
1. Relied mostly on beam weaponry
2. Had a cruising speed of warp 4, max warp 8.
3. Were in the normal size range for starships.
And now back to the Kelvin :
2229- Commissioned, penultimate pre-Constitution cruiser (CA)
2233- Minor Refit, computers replaced with Daystorm Duotronic Comps. Paint scheme changed to light gray.
2250-Major Refit to bring into line with Constitution class, Nacelle replaced with new fleet standard. Down graded to CL.
2270- Retired\Sold off. May stay in service in secondary roles.
Speaking of which...... what kind, if any, of torpedos would they have? Cobolt? Photonic? ( Pardon if my knowledge is a bit sketchy in the Ent. era, but I never really watched that show.).

 

[danellis]

Throughout the run of the series, I don't recall any "refitted" ship painted to a newer-era base paint color.

Apart from the Enterprise, that is!

dJE

 

[blssdwlf]

^^ @danellis - which one? Was it the ENT version?

I remember TOS Enterprise was rebuilt into TMP Enterprise. TNG Enterprise-D was destroyed. TNG Enterprise-C was destroyed. GEN Enterprise-B never saw it past that one movie.

Or was it the Enterprise-E between movies 8 and 10?

 

[Redshirt214]

Basically, I sugested this because : A, The Kelvin's gray is rather dark, and I've always prefered the lighter colored ships and B. It looked like it needed a new coat of paint!

 

[Captain Robert April]

The Kelvin is from an alternate time line, so in following that path, all bets are off.

Staying within the Prime timeline (GODS, how I hate that term!), I think the big ships-of-the-line would consist of a class very similar to the Constitution class, best exemplified by the 18" AMT kit (slightly blockier, about twenty feet shorter).

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

I thought the timeline didn't split until the Narada showed up...

 

[sojourner]

Some people think it split when the Borg traveled back in First Contact. Hence Enterprise and Trek XI are a seperate timeline.

 

[Ronald Held]

I agree that the Kelvin does not come from the Prime universe. I may be convinced that after First Contact, things changed enough to produce ST:ENT and eventually TOS was there but nontrivally altered. After that things somehow lead to no changes in TNG and Generations?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Some people think it split when the Borg traveled back in First Contact. Hence Enterprise and Trek XI are a seperate timeline.

That theory's rubbish. There are numerous First Contact references in Voyager, which also references TNG heavily and even crossed over to Deep Space Nine in it's premiere episode. Also, "These Are The Voyages" irrefutably cements ENT's status as the past of The Next Generation.

So First Contact, Enterprise, Next Generation and Voyager are all the same universe (unless you're willing to ingnore about a dozen episodes). The timeline split in STXI occurs when the Narada arrives. As Spock says: "Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin"

That's not my opinion, that's canon.

 

[Redshirt214]

Anyhow.... on the " Kelvin Kitbash" fleet...... first off, the main reason that the fleet was not upgraded, I believe, post Kelvin- Narada incident, would be the massive rethink of the Connie program that would have resulted after such an attack (There was a bunch of log tapes that presumably was put on a shuttle during the evacuation, and I suspect an analysis of them probably lead to the Enterprise rebootship.). I suspect this led to fleetwide neglect as more and more money was spent on a program to build the new ( Ugly) class of ship. Furthermore the ships present at Earth during the time of the attack on Vulcan seem to have been units of a sort of home fleet, and thus less advanced than the ships slugging it out with the Klingons.

 

[blssdwlf]

It sounds more like you confirmed that "rubbish" theory instead of disproving it.

It can be argued that First Contact altered TNG's continuity to produce ENT and all other items referring to First Contact and ENT all flow from First Contact. ENT in this case would be an alternate timeline. Whether Trek11 is the same timeline as TNG or First Contact->ENT or TOS or just it's own PRIME that's debatable.

Heck, how do we know which continuity we were following after TNG's "Parallels"
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s7/7x11/parallels308.jpg

Some people think it split when the Borg traveled back in First Contact. Hence Enterprise and Trek XI are a seperate timeline.

That theory's rubbish. There are numerous First Contact references in Voyager, which also references TNG heavily and even crossed over to Deep Space Nine in it's premiere episode. Also, "These Are The Voyages" irrefutably cements ENT's status as the past of The Next Generation.

So First Contact, Enterprise, Next Generation and Voyager are all the same universe (unless you're willing to ingnore about a dozen episodes). The timeline split in STXI occurs when the Narada arrives. As Spock says: "Nero's very presence has altered the flow of history, beginning with the attack on the USS Kelvin"

 

[Captain Robert April]

A more logical divergence point is the resolution of the Temporal Cold War, or the lack thereof.

"Shockwave, pt II" showed us the resolution, and the restoration of the timeline to the Star Trek universe we all know and love.

JJTrek showed us what happened on the other side of that focal point in time, where Archer doesn't quite hit that reset button correctly, and things get worse before they get better. Starfleet is forced to build gargantuan ships earlier, phase weapon technology, instead of getting shelved for a time during the Romulan War, develops faster, and becomes something closer to Star Wars turbolaser type of weapons, and Earth becomes an overdeveloped parody of itself, looking more like Corusant. And for some unknown reason, Vulcans get pink skin instead of the familiar yellowish tone. Might have something to do with Vulcan getting a blue sky (maybe some terraforming project to thicken the atmosphere? Response to a Suliban attack, perhaps?)

You could do a whole series just explaining the differences between the two timelines...

 

[USS Mariner]

Dude, Vulcan's have had pink skin since TNG. It's called being lazy.