Spoilers Stargirl - Season One Discussion Thread

[Guy Gardener]

The Pen is a genie house/dogwhistle.

The Genie is from the same place as Mister Mxyzptlk.

Or a writer in the 2000s, probably James Robinson, connected some dots.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

So it's Hourman and Doctor Mid-Nite this week. I'm getting a little tired of the heroes' paraphernalia having minds of their own and glowy energy and so on. Although I get why they made the hourglass the source of Hourman's powers, since having a teenager take pills to make himself feel powerful would be problematical.

It's wild that Rex Tyler is played by Lou Ferrigno, Jr. I wonder if it's an inside joke that they had him killed by Solomon Grundy, who's often treated as DC's Hulk surrogate.

Since I no longer have the Infinity Inc. comics and the Who's Who entries are incomplete on biography details I might be wrong about this, but I seem to remember a storyline where Rex Tyler senior needed to take more pills in stronger doses because he had built up a tolerance to the formula, which led to him becoming addictive and abusive towards his son Rick.

I think it was one of the reasons he didn't want his son to inherit the mantle of Hourman. But the Crisis forced Rick to take the drug in order to rescue some people who were trapped.

Rick then took up the mantle of the new Hourman and it was a storyline through several issues where he then began to experience symptoms of drug addiction.

At some point with the help of the new Dr. Mid-Nite the formula was charged so that it would be less addictive and was turned into a time-release patch that could be worn on the back of the neck.

 

[Christopher]

Since I no longer have the Infinity Inc. comics and the Who's Who entries are incomplete on biography details I might be wrong about this, but I seem to remember a storyline where Rex Tyler senior needed to take more pills in stronger doses because he had built up a tolerance to the formula, which led to him becoming addictive and abusive towards his son Rick.

Yes, I read that. The Hoopla online library has TPBs of Crisis and all its tie-in storylines in other comics, including the Infinity Inc. story arc taking place during the Crisis in which Beth, Rick, and Yolanda gained their legacy identities. I preferred the way they did it there, with Yolanda and Beth actually being protegees of the original heroes in their civilian identities, rather than just random schoolkids that got the identities handed to them out of the blue. At least they kept Rick's relationship to Rex, biologically if not otherwise.

I think it wasn't the greatest idea in this show to kill off all the JSA members and sever those generational ties. I might've liked it better if Courtney had gone around tracking down the protegees or kids of the JSA heroes and assembled her team that way. But it would've been hard to justify why they were all in Blue Valley.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Pen is a genie house/dogwhistle.

The Genie is from the same place as Mister Mxyzptlk.

Or a writer in the 2000s, probably James Robinson, connected some dots.

I thought it was Morrison who made the Thunderbolt, Myxy, Qwisp and Bat-Mite all from the 5th Dimension.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The 5th Dimensional War in Justice League?

I got old man brain.

 

[FreezeC77]

Some of these teen members of the new JSA really need to die to make this show believable at all. The senior and experienced members got wiped out by the injustice league, but the kids with barely any experience are going to got toe-to-toe with them?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Some of these teen members of the new JSA really need to die to make this show believable at all. The senior and experienced members got wiped out by the injustice league, but the kids with barely any experience are going to got toe-to-toe with them?

The ISA are old men past their prime with waning powers.

Old Ben vs. Young Obi-Wan.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

So, judging by the onscreen graphic Dr. Mid-Nite was born in 1914, started his career in 1941 and died in 2010 at the age of 96.

How long has the JSA been around. Did they fight in WWII and was he active the entire time or did he have a protégé to take up the mantle.

I know that Alan Scott's ring and Jay Garrick's connection to the speed force kept them vital well into their seventies, but the other JSA members don't have access to that.

And I agree with Christopher that some of the JSA should have survived to mentor Courtney and the others.

Without them, a lot of their actions (Courtney's in particular) are reckless and potentially life-threatening.

I hope it's not the case where Owen Wilson is a one and done and has to perish at the end of the season for Courtney to grow up and take responsibility for her actions. Owen is sometimes the best part of the show.

I find that surprising because Geoff Johns who is a producer, wrote the Star-Spangled Girl and JSA where Courtney was surrounded by adult figures who mentored her.

Also, never eat a piece of chocolate that's offered to you from someone you're selling company secrets to.

 

[Christopher]

Some of these teen members of the new JSA really need to die to make this show believable at all. The senior and experienced members got wiped out by the injustice league, but the kids with barely any experience are going to got toe-to-toe with them?

I don't think "believable" is a priority for this show. "Spielbergian" seems to be the watchword. (I want to say The Goonies, but I've never actually seen that one. Well, maybe once on TV ages ago, but I have no clear memory of it.)

I hope it's not the case where Owen Wilson is a one and done and has to perish at the end of the season for Courtney to grow up and take responsibility for her actions. Owen is sometimes the best part of the show.

Owen Wilson is not in the show. His younger brother Luke Wilson plays Pat Dugan.

I find that surprising because Geoff Johns who is a producer, wrote the Star-Spangled Girl and JSA where Courtney was surrounded by adult figures who mentored her.

Maybe that's why he wanted to do it differently this time. Creators often get bored doing the same thing over and over and will try an alternative approach to a concept if they get to start over. Or maybe he had to include the mentors in the comic because it was part of an existing shared universe, but here he gets to invent the universe from scratch and is able to come closer to what he would've done all along if he could.

Also, never eat a piece of chocolate that's offered to you from someone you're selling company secrets to.

Yeah, that outcome was easy to predict.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Creators often get bored doing the same thing over and over and will try an alternative approach to a concept if they get to start over.

You never go full Lucas.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Old Ben vs. Young Obi-Wan.

Old Ben whooped Darth Maul in 2 seconds.

Experience matters. Even if the ISA is past their prime, they have proven to be more than a match for inexperienced teens.

I'm not as familiar with the source material as I am with say, JLA, but I read a bit about these characters.

From what I read, there isn't a magic hour glass that gives Hourman his power--it's a pill.

I like that it only works on his DNA but perhaps the only issue I have with the show is that the powers come from various magical devices rather than the people themselves, which I think happened in the comics.

I'm not really a fan of Beth Chapel. The character as described on wiki from the comic books suggest that the character is miscast. It also seems a little odd that the goggles are essentially JARVIS from Iron-Man. I think the character would be better with a different actress playing her. I can't see her being a superhero, unless the glasses somehow give her abilities too, but that also seems a bit odd.

I didn't see anything in the wiki page that suggests that the goggles are a magical computer. This JSA database must be extraordinary since it seems to be self updating on everything even without any living members.

Why would Hourman drive off with his wife without his hour glass? You would think if you were going into danger, you would want a fighting chance. It's not like Rick knew anything, so the hour glass would be useless to him.

Did we see ALL the JSA actually die? I think they should have Alan Scott and Jay Garrick survive that night.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Jay could have time jumped from running too fast.

I remember a comic, early 90s, where the JSA is still young, but their wives are not.

Seemingly 30 year old men hunkering down with 70 year old women.

It was something like "Why do you stay with me? You should find some one your own age."

Old Maul lived a much harder life than Old Ben.

Ben didn't kill him.

That somersault did.

Doomsday looking Mother %%cker probably had a quadruple hernia, and tapped out.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Old Maul lived a much harder life than Old Ben.

Over the 15 or so years between ROTS and that episode of Rebels, I'm not so sure. Look how much Kenobi aged.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

Okay, going from memory, so far we've seen or mentioned

Injustice Society
Brainwave (Coma) -> Brainwave Jr.
Wizard (Deceased)
Icicle -> Icicle II
Gambler
Fiddler -> Virtuoso
Shade (unknown - possibly deceased)
Dr. Ito (Dragon King) -> Shiv
Sportsmaster/Huntress -> Artemis
Solomon Grundy

Justice Society
Starman (Deceased) -> Stargirl
Pat Dugan/S.T.R.I.P.E.
Wildcat (Deceased) -> Wildcat II
Dr. Mid-Nite (Deceased) -> Dr. Mid-Nite II
Hourman (Deceased) -> Hourman II
Green Lantern (Deceased?)
Flash (Deceased?)
Dr. Fate (Deceased?)
Johnny Thunder/Thunderbolt (Deceased) -> Jakeem Thunder
Justin the Shining Knight (?) - possibly the janitor

I'm sure there's more that were in the photo Pat showed Courtney, same as with Icicle and his photo.

 

[Greg Cox]

Dr. Fate's helmet seems conspicuously absent among the JSA relics.

Unless I missed something?

 

[Nerys Myk]

From what I read, there isn't a magic hour glass that gives Hourman his power--it's a pill.

I doubt the hourglass is magical. It's probably some sort of superscience whipped up by Rex Tyler based on Miralco, because as mentioned, he's a brilliant chemist.
As mentioned by another poster, pill popping teen is a bad image these days.

I like that it only works on his DNA but perhaps the only issue I have with the show is that the powers come from various magical devices rather than the people themselves, which I think happened in the comics.

We haven''t seen any magical devices in play yet. The staff, the goggles, the catsuit and even the hourglass are science based. When Court deals out the magic lantern, the pink pen and the helm of Fate then we'll see some magic.

I'm not really a fan of Beth Chapel. The character as described on wiki from the comic books suggest that the character is miscast. It also seems a little odd that the goggles are essentially JARVIS from Iron-Man. I think the character would be better with a different actress playing her. I can't see her being a superhero, unless the glasses somehow give her abilities too, but that also seems a bit odd.

The Beth Chapel in the comics was a full grown woman with a medical degree. This is not that Beth Chapel This Beth in a lonely geeky high school student with a rather sunny disposition (irony? dichotomy?) The actress is doing a good good with that character.

I didn't see anything in the wiki page that suggests that the goggles are a magical computer. This JSA database must be extraordinary since it seems to be self updating on everything even without any living members.

Most computers are magical in the super hero genre. See JARVIS in Iron Man or closer to home Mister Terrific's T-spheres. Most database are extra-ordinary in comics, too. They know as much or as little is needed for the story.
IIRC, the Pieter Cross version of Dr Mid-Nite has tech in his goggles.

Why would Hourman drive off with his wife without his hour glass? You would think if you were going into danger, you would want a fighting chance. It's not like Rick knew anything, so the hour glass would be useless to him.

I thought he was shown at the final battle with ISA using his power. So he must has a second Hourglass or maybe Pat retrieved it after the battle.
Kid discovers his hidden legacy is a pretty common trope.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Dr. Fate's helmet seems conspicuously absent among the JSA relics.

Unless I missed something?

Maybe a kid named Khalid will find it.

 

[Kirk Prime]

I doubt the hourglass is magical. It's probably some sort of superscience whipped up by Rex Tyler based on Miralco, because as mentioned, he's a brilliant chemist.
As mentioned by another poster, pill popping teen is a bad image these days.

I thought I read on wiki that they also had a patch. Good point about the pill popping, but at the same time, that's the story, and people need to be smart enough not to start taking drugs because Hourman is on Stargirl.

That hourglass is a bit bulky though.

We haven''t seen any magical devices in play yet. The staff, the goggles, the catsuit and even the hourglass are science based. When Court deals out the magic lantern, the pink pen and the helm of Fate then we'll see some magic.

They need to delve into the staff a little better. I hope by Season 2, there is a time travel episode.

The Beth Chapel in the comics was a full grown woman with a medical degree. This is not that Beth Chapel This Beth in a lonely geeky high school student with a rather sunny disposition (irony? dichotomy?) The actress is doing a good good with that character.

I'm not saying she's a bad actress, but I'm not really feeling the character, especially as a hero. I'd actually be more interested in her mom being the new Dr. Midnite. I like Stargirl and Wildcat, and jury is out on Hourman, but it's not a bad start.

Most computers are magical in the super hero genre. See JARVIS in Iron Man or closer to home Mister Terrific's T-spheres. Most database are extra-ordinary in comics, too. They know as much or as little is needed for the story.
IIRC, the Pieter Cross version of Dr Mid-Nite has tech in his goggles.

I can be ok with the idea of legit tech in the goggles if there is something in the comics to back it up. But we are a much more computer savvy audience in 2020 than in the past. We all use computers now, where that was not the case when computers were being used in say the 1960s. We all know that computers need updates. If the JSA hadn't been gone for 9 years, it would have worked better for me--unless someone has been upgrading the tech that may have survived that night. I can accept say, the computer having ridiculous data through 2011. It's after the battle that makes me question.

I thought he was shown at the final battle with ISA using his power. So he must has a second Hourglass or maybe Pat retrieved it after the battle.
Kid discovers his hidden legacy is a pretty common trope.

I like the idea that a son learns about the father this way, but the circumstances in which it happened are odd.

You bring up an interesting point. Why were Hourman and his wife running? Did that opening scene take place AFTER the opening battle from the pilot? It makes a little sense if it did because again, why didn't Rex have the hourglass on him? How did Grundy find them?

 

[Christopher]

I doubt the hourglass is magical. It's probably some sort of superscience whipped up by Rex Tyler based on Miralco, because as mentioned, he's a brilliant chemist.
As mentioned by another poster, pill popping teen is a bad image these days.

We haven''t seen any magical devices in play yet. The staff, the goggles, the catsuit and even the hourglass are science based. When Court deals out the magic lantern, the pink pen and the helm of Fate then we'll see some magic.

I meant "magic" in the sense of an object in a story that has glowy sparkles and a mind of its own and deus ex machina powers that are handed to the characters as a story convenience while hushed or ominous John Williamsy music plays in the background. Functionally, there's no real narrative difference between a powerful glowing artifact with a mystical genie or fairy inside and a powerful glowing artifact with futuristic tech and artificial intelligence inside.

I just think they're overusing the trope of the characters getting all their abilities from these JSA hand-me-downs rather than having abilities of their own that would make them seem remotely qualified to be superheroes.

 

[Greg Cox]

Good point about the pill popping, but at the same time, that's the story, and people need to be smart enough not to start taking drugs because Hourman is on Stargirl.

Times change. Audiences change. Stories change. A hero popping pills to beef up his strength plays very differently now than it did back in the 1940s, before steroids and sports-juicing scandals and such. You can't just ignore that for tradition's sake.

They're not obliged to hang onto stuff that's aged badly just because. You can update this stuff as necessary. And, if this case, you should get rid of the pill-popping business.