Spoilers Stargirl - Season One Discussion Thread

[Mike Farley]

The original Earth-2 wasn't destroyed. It, along with Earths 1, 4, S, and X were merged to form the post Crisis DC Earth. Flashpoint later added the Wildstorm Earth to the mix. It technically added the Vertigo Earth, but I never really took that as a separate "place" from the main DCU.

 

[Kirk Prime]

The original Earth-2 wasn't destroyed. It, along with Earths 1, 4, S, and X were merged to form the post Crisis DC Earth. Flashpoint later added the Wildstorm Earth to the mix. It technically added the Vertigo Earth, but I never really took that as a separate "place" from the main DCU.

Same thing though. Earth 1 became the template and all the heroes on Earth 2, and the lives they had before, did not exist and did not remember it. Kal-L existed in the paradise dimension with his Lois, separate from the post-Crisis Earth. Supergirl of Earth 1 no longer existed. All the people who existed on Earth 2, ceased to exist. Technically, you could call it a completely different Earth, and now the the original multiverse is back, that's absolutely true.

 

[Christopher]

The only Earth-2 heroes who ceased to exist in the comics' Crisis were those who had exact Earth-1 counterparts -- mainly just Superman, Batman, Robin, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman, as well as associated characters like Lois Lane, Catwoman, Huntress/Helena Wayne, etc. Earth-2 characters who had different identities from their Earth-1 counterparts (like Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, and Carter Hall) or who had no direct equivalents (like Hourman, Sandman, or Doctor Mid-Nite) were folded into Earth-1 history as the generation preceding the modern heroes. This was illustrated in Roy Thomas's All-Star Squadron, set in the 1940s on Earth-2. In a scene set just before the end of the Crisis, there was a group photo in which all the Justice Society members and associated heroes posed together, including Superman, Batman, Robin, and Wonder Woman, but once the history changed and the merged reality settled, Superman, B&R, and WW had been replaced by Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters, but everyone else in the group photo was still there.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Same thing though. Earth 1 became the template and all the heroes on Earth 2, and the lives they had before, did not exist and did not remember it. Kal-L existed in the paradise dimension with his Lois, separate from the post-Crisis Earth. Supergirl of Earth 1 no longer existed. All the people who existed on Earth 2, ceased to exist. Technically, you could call it a completely different Earth, and now the the original multiverse is back, that's absolutely true.

All those Earths exist in the greater Omniverse. There is a preCrisis version of the Multiverse out there, one of many that make up the Omniverse. We just get to peak in on the "local" Multiverse ( whatever that may be at this time).

 

[Kirk Prime]

The only Earth-2 heroes who ceased to exist in the comics' Crisis were those who had exact Earth-1 counterparts -- mainly just Superman, Batman, Robin, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman, as well as associated characters like Lois Lane, Catwoman, Huntress/Helena Wayne, etc. Earth-2 characters who had different identities from their Earth-1 counterparts (like Alan Scott, Jay Garrick, and Carter Hall) or who had no direct equivalents (like Hourman, Sandman, or Doctor Mid-Nite) were folded into Earth-1 history as the generation preceding the modern heroes. This was illustrated in Roy Thomas's All-Star Squadron, set in the 1940s on Earth-2. In a scene set just before the end of the Crisis, there was a group photo in which all the Justice Society members and associated heroes posed together, including Superman, Batman, Robin, and Wonder Woman, but once the history changed and the merged reality settled, Superman, B&R, and WW had been replaced by Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters, but everyone else in the group photo was still there.

I've seen that panel. It was interesting. But it's rough because it created a lot of issues. However, now, these Earths are back. So that original picture should be fine.

Or, that merged world now must be just another Earth in the multiverse.

All those Earths exist in the greater Omniverse. There is a preCrisis version of the Multiverse out there, one of many that make up the Omniverse. We just get to peak in on the "local" Multiverse ( whatever that may be at this time).

That definitely makes perfect sense, but I think DC needs to really clarify and remove confusion. Why have multiple Earth 1s? Did they run out of numbers?

There shouldn't be multiple multiverses. That makes zero sense. A multiverse by definition is all inclusive.

I don't mind renumbering other Earths. I think for example, they could call pre-crisis Earth 1-Earth 1985.

Pre Crisis Earth 2 could be Earth 1938.

Something like that. But come out with a guide and a good story.

I always thought killing the multiverse was a bad call. If it were me, I would actually do at least one arc a year, even if it was its own title, that deals with the multiverse.

What is Silver Age Superman doing on Earth 1? Or Supergirl, now that she avoided the COIE fate?

 

[Greg Cox]

Pretty good second episode. They certainly took care Mind Master (or whatever his name is). I was expecting a mind wipe but this works as well. I bet he wakes up at the end of the season.

I'm guessing that Brainwave's son inherits his father's powers after all. Or maybe Brainwave possesses his son somehow?

 

[Guy Gardener]

That would mean that he hasn't broken out yet, or that he's so much more powerful than his father, that he is hiding his abilities, which is hardly likely considering that he got pwned by Courntey.

I'd make it that it was a younger daughter.

1. Brainwave is too sexist to consider that his daughter would inherit his powers, or...

2. The daughter is so powerful, that she "cloaks " herself from her father, so that most of the time, he is unaware of the fact that he has a daughter, becuase she is sick and tired of Brainwave trying to recruit her to evil, every time she surfaces into his life.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Did I miss something? Does Brainwave have a daughter?

Round 2 felt more like the second part to a 2 part pilot, but it was very strong. I am curious to see the direction the show goes. Will it just be about Courtney hunting down all these villains or will it be more about Courtney becoming a true hero that does what she does to help people who can't help themselves?

I also think that Brainwave's son will inherit the powers. It makes sense from a narrative standpoint.

Exploring why the staff works for Courtney is something that should be done. First, is she really Sylvester's daughter? Second, will we get some story on Ted Knight? Will there be any jokes about Ted Knight the actor?

I think in the comics at least, Sylvester had no relation to the Knights. So if that's true, then there is no reason that the cosmic staff should require Courtney to have a genetic connection to her predecessor.

What is the purpose of the Injustice Society? What do they want?

It seems a bit odd that they had a huge battle that saw them kill the JSA, but they aren't ruling the world. It also feels like the JSA was no big deal to the population, and if that is true, what was the point?

So far at least, it feels like the sole purpose of the Injustice Society was to kill the JSA, but after their victory, now what?

Where are the other heroes of this Earth 2? Where are Superman? Batman? Wonder Woman? Shouldn't they exist on this world too? They did in the comics.

 

[Christopher]

I'm guessing that Brainwave's son inherits his father's powers after all. Or maybe Brainwave possesses his son somehow?

If he follows the path of his comics counterpart, though, he'll join the good guys instead of the bad guys. Henry Jr. was a member of Infinity Inc. along with several other characters featured in this show, Beth Chapel (Doctor Midnight), Yolanda Montez (Wildcat), and Rick Tyler (Hourman).

Also, it seems that in the school assembly scene, we briefly saw the Crocks' daughter Artemis, a character that Young Justice fans know well, and Geoff Johns hinted that we haven't seen the last of her.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Pretty sure they’re setting up a “Junior “ Injustice Society. Icicle, Brainwave, Fiddler, Sportsmaster and Tigress all have kids.

 

[JD]

That was a pretty good second episode. It was fun to see Pat and Courtney starting to come together as a team.
Anybody know if that was a physical S.T.R.I.P.E. in Pat's garage? It didn't look CGI, and it would be pretty easy to build a physical version if all it has to do is stand by the wall.
I was really surprised they took out Brainwave so early, but it did feel like they might be setting up his son for some role down the line.
I hope we get a definitive answer on whether or not Sylvester is Courney's father soon.
I'm assuming that was Grundy that Icicle had locked up in his secret hideout.
Entertainment Weekly has posted an interview with Neil Jackson, the guy who plays Icicle. I was trying out why he looked so familiar when he showed up, and the article told me, he was the non-headless version of The Headless Horseman in Sleepy Hollow.
Next week's episode is going to go into a fair amount of depth with his backstory, so that should answer a lot of the questions about the ISA.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about this stuff. But Brainwave seems a little too "OP" for is own good, from a practical drama/storytelling standpoint that is. Also, what is it with DC and cold baddies?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about this stuff. But Brainwave seems a little too "OP" for is own good, from a practical drama/storytelling standpoint that is. Also, what is it with DC and cold baddies?

Everybody needs one.

 

[Christopher]

Anybody know if that was a physical S.T.R.I.P.E. in Pat's garage? It didn't look CGI, and it would be pretty easy to build a physical version if all it has to do is stand by the wall.

Yes, there have been publicity photos of it.

Also, what is it with DC and cold baddies?

The first episode of Young Justice lampshaded that -- it opened with a coordinated multi-city attack by Mr. Freeze, Captain Cold, Icicle, and Killer Frost.

To be fair, they've probably got an even larger number of fire-themed baddies -- Heat Wave, Firefly, Fire-Lord, Dr. Phosphorus, Volcana, etc.

 

[11Alive]

She'd just been badly beaten in a fight -- it makes sense that she'd want to rest by letting someone else carry her. Besides, she wanted to go with Pat so he could explain things to her.

Actually, she didn't want to go with him at first. But he was all, "I have to get you somewhere safe." Given that the robot was unfinished and unreliable, I would have just asked her to follow in the air rather than risk crashing with her on top.

That occurred to me too, but it does react inconsistently, since she hasn't mastered its use yet. And maybe Brainwave was holding it down mentally?

The silly thing doesn't obey her most of the time and does what it wants, yet in pitched battle, decides it would rather let the villain nearly kill her? If Brainwave had that kind of power over the staff, Starman never would have been a threat to him.

 

[Christopher]

Actually, she didn't want to go with him at first.

She did by the time she climbed on, which is the part we're talking about.

Given that the robot was unfinished and unreliable, I would have just asked her to follow in the air rather than risk crashing with her on top.

She'd just been defeated in a fight, though. She was weak and tired. You expect her to be in any state to handle clinging to a small rod flying through the air at high speed, maintaining her balance and grip the whole way? No way is that safer in her weakened condition than resting her weight on the robot's back. She's only human.

The silly thing doesn't obey her most of the time and does what it wants, yet in pitched battle, decides it would rather let the villain nearly kill her? If Brainwave had that kind of power over the staff, Starman never would have been a threat to him.

"Decides?" What are you talking about? If he was pushing down on it telekinetically, how does it have any more say in the matter than Stargirl did with the big hunk of metal pinning her down? Maybe it can overcome his TK while she (or Starman) is holding it and it's fully energized, but not when it's out of their grip.

And it's just one possibility. Maybe it was a factor of her own inexperience at controlling it, or her dazed mental state. Maybe it was "dazed" too from the impact.

 

[11Alive]

She did by the time she climbed on, which is the part we're talking about.

He didn't even ask if she was okay or if she could fly. It was an immediate "get on."

She'd just been defeated in a fight, though. She was weak and tired. You expect her to be in any state to handle clinging to a small rod flying through the air at high speed, maintaining her balance and grip the whole way? No way is that safer in her weakened condition than resting her weight on the robot's back. She's only human.

If she's that weak, what would have been the consequence of her losing her grip on the robot and falling to the ground? What would have happened if he had lost control and crashed, which he almost did on landing? If she was that weak, Pat should have held her in the robot's grip, not tell her to get on and hold on tight.

"Decides?" What are you talking about? If he was pushing down on it telekinetically, how does it have any more say in the matter than Stargirl did with the big hunk of metal pinning her down? Maybe it can overcome his TK while she (or Starman) is holding it and it's fully energized, but not when it's out of their grip.

And it's just one possibility. Maybe it was a factor of her own inexperience at controlling it, or her dazed mental state. Maybe it was "dazed" too from the impact.

You wrote that "she hasn't mastered its use yet." She doesn't have to. It's apparently sentient and does what it wants. It flew to her several times when she hadn't called it, like in her bedroom. So it couldn't move a few inches when her life depended on it? Both she and Starman let go of it in battle. If it was that vulnerable to Brainwave, he should have been able to knock it to the ground at any time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

We have not seen the staff and the mum in the same place at the same time?

Is Bab's a part time stick?

I'm serious.

The star energy in the cosmic staff, lives in the stick or possess' a pretty blonde lady.

Zoot, zoot.

Although it makes less sense that she would have sex with Pat, but not let him become the new Starman by handling her rod.

 

[Christopher]

He didn't even ask if she was okay or if she could fly. It was an immediate "get on."

She obviously wasn't okay. If you were driving and came upon someone who'd fallen off their bike, wouldn't you offer them a ride out of basic decency? Especially if it was your own daughter? Come on, you're talking about simple consideration for another person as if there were something wrong with it.

If she's that weak, what would have been the consequence of her losing her grip on the robot and falling to the ground?

Seriously? It should be instantly obvious that being able to lie down on top of a wide, flat, solid surface is much less strenuous than having to keep your balance on top of a slender pole.

You wrote that "she hasn't mastered its use yet." She doesn't have to. It's apparently sentient and does what it wants.

You're making a lot of assumptions just for the sake of being argumentative. If you applied the same amount of thought to trying to justify it rather than just attacking it, I think you'd find it's not that hard. My motto has always been "Don't complain, explain."

 

[Greg Cox]

Like I said, I know next to nothing about this stuff. But Brainwave seems a little too "OP" for is own good, from a practical drama/storytelling standpoint that is. Also, what is it with DC and cold baddies?

What does "OP" mean?

Just curious.