All relevant to the points we are discussing in terms of Trek, in a slightly abstract way, I promise. But mostly it was a side discussion that had....evolved.
Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)
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All relevant to the points we are discussing in terms of Trek, in a slightly abstract way, I promise. But mostly it was a side discussion that had....evolved.
That ties it very neatly.
The Who stuff I mentioned is...basically arcane at this point.
QUOTE="jaime, post: 11956883, member: 56998"]All relevant to the points we are discussing in terms of Trek, in a slightly abstract way, I promise. But mostly it was a side discussion that had....evolved.[/QUOTE]
And...having deja vu?
I find the Who stuff quite interesting and liked the Gallifrey terminology. I just was amused by the large amount of examples.
And...having deja vu?
I find the Who stuff quite interesting and liked the Gallifrey terminology. I just was amused by the large amount of examples.[/QUOTE]
Yeah..I think the typing on IOS bug has evolved with my poor wifi to odd posting problems.
I was using a large amount of examples because I was being the teensiest bit...sarky. But mostly cos those bits I mention are parallel things to the event we discuss here....how to reconcile apparently contradictory continuity, (books audio and screen....different eras TV and film) two different universes that are ostensibly so similar as to almost be the same, (Klein bottles, universe starting events, the Kelvin Timeline and NuScotty) and contradiction between early canon and later canon (two hearts vs one, TOS vs TNG statements) and feeding into an underlying ideological statement through narrative (Who is very much intentionally Buddhist at times, pagan and pantheonistic at others, Trek has an underlying utopia of equality and a story about mankind moving beyond violent conflict...Trek is more explicit in its ideology, and it is less of a full kitchen behind the scenes. Trek basically has one cook. /chef.)
You don't, you just do like Kirk did in "Mudd's Women" and detain offenders so they can be delivered to the proper legal authorities.
Exploring space may have been their origin, but it doesn't seem to be their primary mission. As seen in the shows, at least, much of their time is spent in known areas, supporting colonists and outposts, transporting diplomats, and general patrol. It's not hard to imagine an exploration organization quickly taking on not-so-peaceful functions, because if one thing has been shown over and over in the series, it's that exploration often comes down to fighting (in self-defense, of course). And once the space is explored, it is settled and colonized and some organization is needed to police all that. And, ultimately, to fight a war if necessary.
Likewise, real-life navies originated to fight wars, yes. But in an age of exploration and expansion, they evolved to take on more functions, too. As has been noted earlier, every type of mission that Starfleet has been shown to perform was also performed by navies in the 19th century, and the closest real-world match to Starfleet ever was the Victorian Royal Navy. So the fictional organization could end up looking very similar to the real one, but arriving by a different route.
I think most people today think of 19th century RN as a military organization. Did they think the same at the time? I say, yes, BUT... Command of the service was definitely military, and lieutenants, captains, commanders and admirals were called "military officers." But there were still remnants of the older "part-time" sailing navy culture. Many sailors still tended to think of themselves as mariners first and naval ratings second. They definitely didn't do things like march and stand at attention. Likewise surgeons, chaplains, pursers and engineers were somewhat considered civilians who were in the navy rather than naval officers, though this changed as the century went on. So culturally it might not fit all of today's notions of what a "military" organization is like. Things change.
Personally, I define a military organization as simply an organized national fighting force. That doesn't mean exclusively fighting, or even primarily fighting. But it would include the 19th century Royal Navy, the US Coast Guard, the Japanese Self Defense Forces, and Starfleet.
Kirk and Noel danced and talked at the Christmas party. Anything further was a suggestion on her part as he was under the device. So that's, what, none?
He seemed to have had a relationship with Areel Shaw (Starfleet JAG), at some point. But, it doesn't appear she was ever under his command.
Doctor Leonard 'Bones' McCoy resigned from Starfleet at the end of the five year mission but was drafted back in TMP. No matter how my company might beg, once I resign and leave they cannot make me return by force or law.
And yet Starfleet ain't military right?
And yet Starfleet ain't military right?
Starfleet is based on a US/RN naval tradition, those nations do not have conscription for civilian public services.
It was an in short....he said they used a little known seldom used clause...which sounds like a contract. Possibly something on his doctors license.
No, it was a "reserve activation clause," IOW Starfleet has a reserve organization and he was part of it.
Sorry for your tech troubles.
I appreciate all the info on Who, as I find Gallifrey society to fascinating, though I was not aware of the Buddhist tones. Thank you for sharing that bit.
Star Trek could be best described as "secular humanist" in its philosophical underpinnings, though, interestingly enough, GR had an interest in Buddhism as well.
I thought of that as well.
There comes a point when you do so many things "like" something else, that one becomes indistinguishable from it.
At that point they can tell you "It's OK, we're not the military. Man your post, Mister."
There's a whole bunch of stuff in the now apocryphal books which is really quite interesting, but it all stems from Barry Letts producer role in the pertwee years...the Third Doctors death was laden with metaphor, and the Doctor is known to have studied meditation on gallifrey....another time lord appears literally as some kind of Monk. The imagery sort of hangs around d the show afterwards...notably Kinda and Snakdance later in the Davison era. Though many will say otherwise, especially after the avowed atheist viewpoint of RTD, Who actually has a mystical bent...it's why it can do the 'lonely god' stuff without coming off as something using the symbols with none of the understanding like say Buffy might.
"The reserve activation clause of personnel commissions and/or licenses was a Starfleet regulation which was in force during the 2270s. Described as "little-known" and "seldom-used," the clause provided for the recall of a discharged or retired Starfleet officer to active duty in response to a crisis or emergency.
In the mid-2270s, Fleet Admiral Nogura, at the request of Rear Admiral James T. Kirk, recalled Dr. Leonard McCoy to active duty in the Starfleet using the reserve activation clause. Upon reporting to the USS Enterprise, McCoy stated to Kirk, in clear frustration, "In simpler language, captain, they drafted me!" (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)"
I would love to see a civilian organisation try this...'Keep working at McDonald's or else'!
In the mid-2270s, Fleet Admiral Nogura, at the request of Rear Admiral James T. Kirk, recalled Dr. Leonard McCoy to active duty in the Starfleet using the reserve activation clause. Upon reporting to the USS Enterprise, McCoy stated to Kirk, in clear frustration, "In simpler language, captain, they drafted me!" (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)"
I would love to see a civilian organisation try this...'Keep working at McDonald's or else'!
Roddenberry had an interest in anything that brought him babes and cash.
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