Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)

[Nyotarules]

You are making unsubstantiated speculation on a person's mental faculties to support a pre-determined conclusion. Please do not do that.

In the late 1980s, Roddenberry was likely afflicted by the first manifestations of cerebral vascular disease and encephalopathy as a result of his longstanding recreational use of legal and illicit drugs, including alcohol,[161]cannabis, diazepam, secobarbital, methylphenidate, Dexamyl, and cocaine (which he had used regularly since the production of Star Trek: The Motion Picture).[126]
Throughout much of his career, he had routinely used stimulants to work through the night on scripts, especially amphetamines.[162] The effects of these substances were compounded by deleterious interactions with diabetes,[161] high blood pressure, and antidepressant prescriptions.[126]

The Great Bird was no saint and did not need to be one...

 

[GabyBee]

Are you a medical doctor, or a trained psychiatrist?

 

[BillJ]

Kor identified himself as a military governor, by the way.

I know. But you have a conflict, and are choosing one over the other. So you see the Klingons as the bad guys and its okay for them to be military.

 

[BillJ]

Are you a medical doctor, or a trained psychiatrist?

What does being a doctor have to do with it? Most folks with common knowledge know the effects the above drugs have on the mind and body.

 

[GabyBee]

I do not consider Klingons to be the "bad guys". I consider them to be the Klingons. They have a military.

 

[Nyotarules]

Are you a medical doctor, or a trained psychiatrist?

No but I can read and use the internet.....

 

[GabyBee]

No but I can read and use the internet.....

Well that's certainly a high bar...

 

[BillJ]

I do not consider Klingons to be the "bad guys". I consider them to be the Klingons. They have a military.

Why? What makes the argument any different? We have multiple Starfleet officers identify themselves as soldiers.

 

[jaime]

conscript

[verb kuh n-skript; noun, adjective kon-skript]
verb (used with object)

to draft for military or naval service.

A sentence which defines the Navy as separate to the military please note. Also drafted was only used as shorthand by McCoy. I have been 'drafted' shorthand to do certain tasks when technically off duty, because it was needed in an emergency and I was nearby. Never in the military or Navy etc etc.

 

[jaime]

I'd say you're ignoring an even larger body of evidence going the other direction. But, you are free to pick and choose how you see the Star Trek universe.



No. The stories are what make it what it is. Canon is just minutiae some folks can't live without.



Why?

Canon is not that.

 

[GabyBee]

Kirk identified himself as a "soldier" in a figurative manner.

The words "Starfleet is a military organization" has never been said on-screen. Whereas "Starfleet is not a military organization" has been said on-screen, multiple times.

 

[BillJ]

A sentence which defines the Navy as separate to the military please note. Also drafted was only used as shorthand by McCoy. I have been 'drafted' shorthand to do certain tasks when technically off duty, because it was needed in an emergency and I was nearby. Never in the military or Navy etc etc.

This is just more pedantic word games though. He uses 'drafted' in the same breath as 'reserve activation clause'. I think the intent was clear that McCoy didn't have a choice. Also, is he the only doctor on Earth?

Transporters would seem to eliminate the "I was the closest in the area" argument.

 

[GabyBee]

Perhaps being "drafted" as a medical doctor for public service is something that occurs under Federation law. That doesn't automatically make it a military matter. Mandatory public service for non-military organizations is a thing that occurs regularly on 21st Century Earth.

 

[BillJ]

Kirk identified himself as a "soldier" in a figurative manner.

Of course he did.

I suppose Sisko was also only using "soldier" in a figurative manner all the times he used it during Deep Space Nine.

 

[BillJ]

Perhaps being "drafted" as a medical doctor for public service is something that occurs under Federation law. That doesn't automatically make it a military matter. Mandatory public service for non-military organizations is a thing that occurs regularly on 21st Century Earth.

The order was issued by Admiral Nogura.

KIRK: That has a familiar ring, doesn't it? Starfleet, this is Captain Kirk. Beam that officer up now! ...Well, for a man who swore he'd never return to Starfleet.
McCOY: Just a moment, Captain, sir. I'll explain what happened. Your revered Admiral Nogura invoked a little known, and seldom used, reserve activation clause, ...in simpler language, Captain, they drafted me!

It wasn't a general government edict, it was issued by Starfleet.

 

[GabyBee]

Again, that doesn't automatically make it a military matter. Starfleet is a non-military organization. Yes, it has Admirals. These are two things that have been reconciled using real-world precedents. There are admirals in non-military entities in 21st Century Earth. In the United States, even.

 

[BillJ]

Again, that doesn't automatically make it a military matter. Starfleet is a non-military organization. Yes, it has Admirals. These are two things that have been reconciled using real-world precedents. There are admirals in non-military entities in 21st Century Earth. In the United States, even.

But when you have to start looking everywhere for a thing to be reconciled here, a thing to be reconciled there... it begins to look an awful lot like the intent all along was that Starfleet is supposed to be the military.

One shouldn't have to look under every rock to find things that back up their POV. I've pretty much used what is there, in the various shows.

"Starfleet isn't the military", makes no sense within the context of the shows and movies themselves.

 

[GabyBee]

I am not the one grasping at straws for things to be reconciled. I am backing up the statement "Starfleet is not a military organization".

it begins to look an awful lot like the intent all along was that Starfleet is supposed to be the military.

Actually, quite the opposite:

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Hmm, perhaps if there was some way to separate between the three. Perhaps if each department wore a different colored tunic? Nah, forget it, that's silly!

I actually made this exact point five (six? seven?) pages ago. It works very well for TOS at least, where you ca conclude that all the guys in the yellow shirts are military while the reds are non-military government agencies and the blues are from NGOs or science specialists. It doesn't work as nicely for TNG since they alot of officers switch colors when they change specialties or get promoted, and because the red/command colors of TNG don't appear to be focussed on the military aspect (the yellow shirts do, because they do most of the combat and tactical planning, e.g. Yar and Worf). So there's a lot of overlap in the spinoffs that makes that differentiation tricky.

 

[J.T.B.]

Kirk identified himself as a "soldier" in a figurative manner.

Figurative? He was commanding a wartime mission to deny a base to an enemy.