Star Wars: With or Without Episodes 1-3?

[CorporalCaptain]

Do you know why the Kessel run is considered a gauge to measure a ships speed and how Solo accomplished the feat to make it the fastest run? No.. these lines exist just to show us the awesome potential of the Millenium Falcon and we also don't get an explanation why the Millenium Falcon is considered a rustbucket by everyone else just by looking at it because, at least to me, it looks fine (no actual rust ) and only on closer inspection and experience do people know she's prone to diva behaviour and occasional failure.

The same applies to the PT.. i like the fact they introduced story elements and characters and have people talk about them casually without turning around and spending minutes explaining everything. Ok.. there was a guy called Sifo Dyas who ordered the clones to be developed.. it's not story breaking that we don't get background info. Also it's not story breaking that the Sith want revenge and there's the rule of two because their motivation is simply to be the antagonists to the Jedi and we (at least i) don't need an indepth treatise on Sith culture and history to make them work.

The Clone Army was of central significance to how Palpatine gained power. The Kessel Run had zero significance to any event in any of the films. To equate questions of the origin of the Clone Army with questions of the nature of the Kessel Run is really very disproportionate.

One other point. Everyone except Anakin and Padmé was treated as a glorified prop. We found out more about the origins of C-3P0, R2-D2, and Jar Jar Binks, of all beings, than we did of Obi-Wan Kenobi. Lame.

By the way, regarding what Dream said about certain figures remaining completely mysterious. I could in principle be OK with that, provided there is a clear contrast between those deliberately mysterious figures, like Yoda and Palpatine, and the other main protagonists besides Anakin and Padmé, such as Obi-Wan Kenobi in particular.

Really the fault in the case of Obi-Wan is probably in having introduced Qui-Gon Jinn and Jar Jar Binks as major characters, as in Episode I they sucked the oxygen away from Obi-Wan.

In my opinion, Obi-Wan Kenobi should have been the protagonist not only of The Phantom Menace, but of the entire PT.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

I did not really like the PT. If anybody here can understand the analogy, it was Robocop 3 to the OT's Robocop: it missed much of what made the original work good, at the same time adding new things to make it more 'kid-friendly', like quirky, zany Jar-Jar and the totally radtacular to the extreme maximum pod-racing scene, piloted by 8-year-old Anni.

 

[DonIago]

Not sure whether it ever made any sense, but I always tended to think Master Sifo-Dyas and Darth Sidious were the same person...from a writing standpoint, if they're not, it's sloppy to have two characters (one apparently significant in some manner and the other -obviously- significant) with such similar names.

Like Sauron and Saruman?

Ugh, don't get me started on name similarities in LotR.

My point stands, if your audience can easily confuse two characters due to name similarities, then you should either make the similarity intentional or change it.

 

[TV's Frank]

I recall threads of a similar topic being posted here before and it will be debated endlessly, there is no one definitive answer to this. One issue unique to STAR WARS is that it was a massive, shared cultural experience worldwide, almost all at the same time, with no preconceptions beforehand of what it should or could be. We all saw it completely open-minded. Following this, many fans already had ideas in their respective minds of what new movies could or should consist of and it evolved into an odd situation where was more akin to a film adaption of a beloved novel which we had each already written in our imaginations.

There are many aspects of the prequel trilogy that I enjoy and was pleasantly surprised by. For example, I've always liked the surprise of seeing Obi-wan as a padawan learner and who his mentor was in Qui-Gon. I never would have thought of this as a story idea and I think it adds further depth to Obi-wan's character and provides an interesting new Jedi in Qui-Gon, who winds up informing those who survive him.

I didn't need it to look or feel like the original trilogy, just as I didn't need Star Trek: The Next Generation to look or feel like the original series. There are some aspects of the prequel trilogy I would change, but they don't ruin it for me. And I have had friends describe to me what their preferred prequel story ideas would be and I didn't find any of them compelling at all. They would borrow obviously from other sources or current films & TV or they would forget the set-in-stone format of the STAR WARS films, i.e. there are no flashbacks, there is no skip ahead in years during the framework of a single film, etc. Fans can feel passionate about what they love, but that doesn't make them good storytellers.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Fans can feel passionate about what they love, but that doesn't make them good storytellers.

Agreed, but this isn't a debate of who would have written better movies, Lucas or the fans. Lucas is not a good story teller either, in my opinion. The prequels come off as goofy fan fiction that inexplicably got produced.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I recall threads of a similar topic being posted here before and it will be debated endlessly, there is no one definitive answer to this. One issue unique to STAR WARS is that it was a massive, shared cultural experience worldwide, almost all at the same time, with no preconceptions beforehand of what it should or could be. We all saw it completely open-minded. Following this, many fans already had ideas in their respective minds of what new movies could or should consist of and it evolved into an odd situation where was more akin to a film adaption of a beloved novel which we had each already written in our imaginations.

There are many aspects of the prequel trilogy that I enjoy and was pleasantly surprised by. For example, I've always liked the surprise of seeing Obi-wan as a padawan learner and who his mentor was in Qui-Gon. I never would have thought of this as a story idea and I think it adds further depth to Obi-wan's character and provides an interesting new Jedi in Qui-Gon, who winds up informing those who survive him.

I didn't need it to look or feel like the original trilogy, just as I didn't need Star Trek: The Next Generation to look or feel like the original series. There are some aspects of the prequel trilogy I would change, but they don't ruin it for me. And I have had friends describe to me what their preferred prequel story ideas would be and I didn't find any of them compelling at all. They would borrow obviously from other sources or current films & TV or they would forget the set-in-stone format of the STAR WARS films, i.e. there are no flashbacks, there is no skip ahead in years during the framework of a single film, etc. Fans can feel passionate about what they love, but that doesn't make them good storytellers.

Hey this is a great post and I've bolded the most astute points. I agree and these things give the original films their special charm

 

[Admiral_Young]

@TV'sFrank's post I think is one of the most rational opinions regarding this particular subject that I've read. Well done.

 

[nightwind1]

I've enjoyed watching again and again Star Wars Episodes 4-6 covering the story of Luke, Han, and Leia. When I first heard that they were going to have Episodes 1-3 be based on the story of Luke's father Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, I was excited and interested in seeing it. But after seeing that trilogy, I wonder if it was worth watching at all. Some of what happened in the Anakin trilogy was the stuff you can already learn from the Luke/Han/Leia trilogy. The rest was new but not really necessary. George Lucas could have taken the most important events of the Anakin trilogy and turn them into flashbacks to be placed in Return of the Jedi to reveal Darth Vader's past as the showdown with his son draws near.

My opinion is that Star Wars is better off without Episodes 1-3. What's your opinion?

I don't believe that they ever made the first three episodes. I know that Lucas planned to do all nine movies some day, but for some reason only did Star Wars, Empire and Jedi.

 

[ichab]

I thought the PT was okay, but they could have been so much better. Episode 1 to me was a complete waste with the exception of Qui-Gon and Darth Maul. Episode II was better, but the love story was a real drag on everything. Episode 3 is one of my favorites.

I think Lucas should have started with Anakin already in the jedi order and allowed for focus on some of the other jedi during the clone wars. That way when order 66 comes we feel a greater sense of loss for those characters. Plus it would have allowed for more information about Darth Maul, Jango Fett and General Grievous, who I thought were good villains that got killed off way to early.

 

[DonIago]

^I think I agree with everything you just said.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I don't think any prequel could ever satisfactorily explain how Anakin Skywalker started turning to the dark side in the same time frame as pair bonding with Padmé Amidala - not without seriously compromising the credulity of most adult viewers. The age difference between them in TPM was also a huge mistake IMO. That's when the sinking feeling for the prospect of future instalments started for me - Jar-Jar Binks wasn't the clincher.

 

[Trekker4747]

I've never understood why people always usually such praise-worthy of ROTS/Ep3. I'd grudgingly say it's the "best" of the three PT movies but that's not really a whole lot of praise. The action, sure, is a bit better and the tone of the movie is a bit better with reduced kiddie nonsense but it's still burdened by a lot of crap.

To begin with the whole story itself cannot hold up, or work, since the previous two movies sucked so much. There's been no build up or anticipation to this moment. As said elsewhere it's no surprise that Anakin falls to the Dark Side. Not because we obviously already know that he does but because he's been on the edge for all of the last movie and for the present movie.

The movie is still loaded with a lot of CGI bullshit (was the scene with Obi-Won chasing down Grevious on a giant dinosaur supposed to be cool?).

Grevious himself is a non-entity as a "bad ass" villain and is hampered greatly by the fact that he coughs and wheezes (!) like an octogenarian suffering from advanced lung cancer.

Yoda's mixing up his words is way over done whenever he talks.

Any potential bad-assery in SLJ's Jedi character is pretty much wasted.

The Emperor's cackling and manner of speaking is way over-done to the point of being comical.

And even the epic battle between Obi-Won and Anakin isn't really great as it's all drowned out by fucktons of CGI surroundings. The battle with Darth Maul in the first movie was a lot better.

Then Padme just pretty much decides she's dead. She didn't die due to any lasting injury or through a complicated child-birth, her death in of itself renders Leia's remembering how beautiful her mother was incorrect (and undoes Lucas' own comments on why Nataline Portman wears 10,000 beautiful outfits in the previous movie) and she's still overly supportive of Anakin. When she's told Anakin killed the "younglings" in the Jedi Temple she says Anakin would never kill children. Even though he admitted to her in the LAST MOVIE he killed women and children for pretty much no reason at all except for them being within eye-shot of him when he ranged against those responsible for the death of his mom.

Sure, in that case I could see him killing the men Tuskan Raiders and maybe even the women. They'd both be "responsible" for the capture and death of his mom. (I'd argue the women less-so since it's unlikely they're equal to the men, but whatever) But the children?!

ROTJ just cannot compare in quality or "goodness" at all to any of the OT movies. It's severely flawed, way too much CGI, really, really, really terrible acting from the Emperor and any good it may have is weighted down by the crap of the first two movies.

 

[DonIago]

(shrugs) To my mind, calling RotS one of the better prequels, or even one of the better SW movies (and I didn't say that) would still leave plenty of room for improvement.

 

[Set Harth]

My point stands, if your audience can easily confuse two characters due to name similarities, then you should either make the similarity intentional or change it.

They can't be so easily confused. Palpatine was clearly never a Jedi Master.

 

[DonIago]

I don't think we know enough about Palpatine's backstory to say that with absolute certainty.

 

[Set Harth]

I don't think we know enough about Palpatine's backstory to say that with absolute certainty.

Yes, we can. It comes as a surprise ( as it should ) to Mace and Anakin in ROTS that he's been trained to use the Force at all. EU also has Palpatine feigning a lack of knowledge of the Force when in the presence of Jedi. The Plagueis book will tell the same story.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Palpatine was never a Jedi or a Master or the Council would be aware of him. As Set Harth stated both Mace and Anakin are surprised that he can use the Force.

 

[DonIago]

(shrugs) Given the multiple issues we see with the Council in the prequel films I don't find it all that hard to believe they could lose track of a Master, especially one such as Palpatine.

Not disagreeing, just saying it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Except that Palpatine has been a public figure for most of his adult life. Granted from a back water planet that really had no impact on Galactic politics until he engineered the situation which resulted with the blockade. It is an interesting notion but I seriously doubt (even with all his need for changes) that Lucas ever intended Palps to be a Jedi.

 

[Joe Washington]

But Palpatine was a Sith lord or at least the former apprentice of a Sith lord which is how he was able to use the Force.