Star Wars: With or Without Episodes 1-3?

[TremblingBluStar]

George Lucas could have taken the most important events of the Anakin trilogy and turn them into flashbacks to be placed in Return of the Jedi to reveal Darth Vader's past as the showdown with his son draws near.

I have no problem with there being films showing the adventures of Anakin and Obi Wan, but why did they have to be so bland and predictable? Why did they basically connect points A to B, and exist only to set up the original trilogy?

These films should have had a story that could exist independent of the OT, and had some surprises for the audience. Other than Midichorians.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

[/I]However, I think originally Darth was just Vader's 'real' first name, just as it was originally intended for Vader to be a seperate character from Anakin Skywalker.

I've read this in other places, but I always thought Darth was a Sith rank or title. I never thought it was a first name. I am not sure if there was an EU novel or comic that used Darth for other characters, but for some reason, however.

 

[Candlelight]

The Phantom Menace isn't bad on repeated viewings, although after the first half hour I fizzle out and don't come back in again until the final battle. Even the pod race doesn't hold my attention.

Attack of the Clones is two hours of nothing, really. Part of me wishes this had been combined with the first film (or the third film) as it just does nothing. The end battle has no emotional impact as, instead of Imperials vs humans we have droids vs clones - where's the emotional link for the audience??

Revenge of the Sith was probably the best of the three although it still got bogged down on 'Lucasisms' that he's so intent on throwing in. The final battle was good although they really should've used different coloured lightsabres. Anakin running around with a red sabre would've been nice foreshadowing for what was to come.

Should they have been made? Yes, they complete the story of the rise and fall of the Empire. Are they necessary for viewing the original trilogy? No.

 

[Kegg]

It's also possible given the differences between books and movies the book contains things that "didn't really happen" in the movies, but I've alays been foggy on how the novels in SW work in relation with the movies.

Basically, what happens in the books is canon unless it is contradicted by the movies, in which case it isn't (because the movies are automatically more canon). In the book in question, Luke is Blue Five. In the movie, Luke is Red Five. Ergo, Luke is Red Five. And so on.


I'm pretty sure the actual script also refers to Darth Vader as 'a Dark Lord of the Sith', but what that even means is never explained. The idea that there is a distant identity from the Jedi known as the Sith is not one one finds in the EU pre-prequel movies, actually, they prefer the term 'dark Jedi', assuming that's the correct identifier for Vader and the Emperor and so on.

 

[Klaus]

Episodes 1-3? Did they ever get filmed? I was sure I'd have heard something about them. Oh, well, guess I should pay more attention.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'm pretty sure the actual script also refers to Darth Vader as 'a Dark Lord of the Sith', but what that even means is never explained.

Hell, the Sith aren't even explained in any of the prequels. They just want revenge for--something. Oh, and there's a master and an apprentice, no more, no less. (Two shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be two.) Episode III ends with us no wiser about the Sith than we were in 1977 on the opening night of Star Wars.

Where did Palpatine come from? Who trained him? That would have been a question worth answering on screen in the prequels canonically. Instead, we got only a muddled Rorschach ink blot of abridged legend, from a dubious source, which we've been told to expect to be twisted and full of half and incomplete truths.

And who the hell was Sifo-Dyas, and what happened to him? What about Dooku? Why couldn't we hear some straight answers from the Jedi Council about them, on screen, even if just between Mace and Yoda? Muddled gibberish is all we got.

And Klaus probably lives a more stress-free existence than all the rest of us combined.

 

[DonIago]

Not sure whether it ever made any sense, but I always tended to think Master Sifo-Dyas and Darth Sidious were the same person...from a writing standpoint, if they're not, it's sloppy to have two characters (one apparently significant in some manner and the other -obviously- significant) with such similar names.

 

[Kegg]

Hell, the Sith aren't even explained in any of the prequels. They just want revenge for--something.

True, but we know what a Sith is, insofar as they're a dark side equivalent to the Jedi.

Vader's title could have meant pretty much anything. Sith could be a continent on a planet, name given the Emperor's inner council, a gestapo-like police force, an alien species. Whatever it was, it was something Vader was Dark Lord of.

And who the hell was Sifo-Dyas, and what happened to him?

Quite. I was positive that the name was a thinly veiled alias for Sidious when I first heard it, but seems in the expanded universe he really was a Jedi and yeah that was a plot thread that was dangled noncomittally and got nowhere.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Not sure whether it ever made any sense, but I always tended to think Master Sifo-Dyas and Darth Sidious were the same person...from a writing standpoint, if they're not, it's sloppy to have two characters (one apparently significant in some manner and the other -obviously- significant) with such similar names.

See, that would have been awesome. Especially if Mace started to recognize him during his transformation.

 

[Dream]

Where did Palpatine come from? Who trained him? That would have been a question worth answering on screen in the prequels canonically.

Palpatine's background really isn't important. I think that it is better that we don't know much about him. It is better to let some characters have some mystery.

That is the reason why Yoda's background should never be explored too much.

 

[Whofan]

Timothy Zahn, when writing the Thrawn trilogy, originally intended for the Noghri (A group of alien warriors indebted to Vader) to be the Sith, hence Vader be the Dark Lord of the Sith, but Lucas didn't like that idea.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Timothy Zahn, when writing the Thrawn trilogy, originally intended for the Noghri (A group of alien warriors indebted to Vader) to be the Sith, hence Vader be the Dark Lord of the Sith, but Lucas didn't like that idea.

Yeah, "Dark Lord of the Angry Dwarves" doesn't sound like a good idea. I agree with George.

 

[Davros]

Star Wars is best as the movie which held that title before any prequels or sequels.

 

[Kegg]

Timothy Zahn, when writing the Thrawn trilogy, originally intended for the Noghri (A group of alien warriors indebted to Vader) to be the Sith, hence Vader be the Dark Lord of the Sith, but Lucas didn't like that idea.

Indeed. The same trilogy explains - if memory serves - that when it was said that all the Jedi were gone, there was still obvious the Emperor and Vader around, so he didn't mean the dark Jedi. And the idea that the Sith were an alien race with ties to dark Jedi has had a long afterlife, and has since been merged with the prequel film idea of the Sith as a specifically Jedi-alternate.

 

[Sean Aaron]

That said, the only two SW films that interest me are Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back.

Same here, though I also watch the Luke/Vader bits of Jedi - I skip the Death Star Battle Part II and the Endor stuff.

Regarding the topic: without. I've seen the prequels in the theatre and multiple times on DVD and have to say they don't contribute anything meaningful to the story; furthermore trying to retcon the original films into the "story of Anakin" doesn't work because Vader isn't the centre of any of those movies. Hell in the first one he's only a henchman!

Mainly they just spoil the reveal in Empire Strikes Back and are an excercise in big-budget bad storytelling. If you like them, great, but I won't waste my time watching them again.

 

[FPAlpha]

I'm pretty sure the actual script also refers to Darth Vader as 'a Dark Lord of the Sith', but what that even means is never explained.

Hell, the Sith aren't even explained in any of the prequels. They just want revenge for--something. Oh, and there's a master and an apprentice, no more, no less. (Two shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be two.) Episode III ends with us no wiser about the Sith than we were in 1977 on the opening night of Star Wars.

Where did Palpatine come from? Who trained him? That would have been a question worth answering on screen in the prequels canonically. Instead, we got only a muddled Rorschach ink blot of abridged legend, from a dubious source, which we've been told to expect to be twisted and full of half and incomplete truths.

And who the hell was Sifo-Dyas, and what happened to him? What about Dooku? Why couldn't we hear some straight answers from the Jedi Council about them, on screen, even if just between Mace and Yoda? Muddled gibberish is all we got.

And Klaus probably lives a more stress-free existence than all the rest of us combined.

Well.. as much as i disagree and dislike the PT the points you bring up are irrelevant to the story. The current actions are what shape the story and Star Wars never was a character study that needed indepth explanations.. we learn about the characters through their actions as we go and that's it.

Do you know why the Kessel run is considered a gauge to measure a ships speed and how Solo accomplished the feat to make it the fastest run? No.. these lines exist just to show us the awesome potential of the Millenium Falcon and we also don't get an explanation why the Millenium Falcon is considered a rustbucket by everyone else just by looking at it because, at least to me, it looks fine (no actual rust ) and only on closer inspection and experience do people know she's prone to diva behaviour and occasional failure.

The same applies to the PT.. i like the fact they introduced story elements and characters and have people talk about them casually without turning around and spending minutes explaining everything. Ok.. there was a guy called Sifo Dyas who ordered the clones to be developed.. it's not story breaking that we don't get background info. Also it's not story breaking that the Sith want revenge and there's the rule of two because their motivation is simply to be the antagonists to the Jedi and we (at least i) don't need an indepth treatise on Sith culture and history to make them work.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Well.. as much as i disagree and dislike the PT the points you bring up are irrelevant to the story. The current actions are what shape the story and Star Wars never was a character study that needed indepth explanations.. we learn about the characters through their actions as we go and that's it.

I have to disagree. The originals didn't go into deep depth about the concepts, but they did explain what was happening well enough.

If Lucas had written the OT today, we would have gotten this scene between Luke and Ben:

Ben: You must come with me to Alderaan, and learn the ways of the Force, and become a Jedi like your father!

Luke: I don't get it. What is the Force? What is a Jedi?

Ben: (nodding sympathetically) Exactly!

 

[DWF]

Well.. as much as i disagree and dislike the PT the points you bring up are irrelevant to the story. The current actions are what shape the story and Star Wars never was a character study that needed indepth explanations.. we learn about the characters through their actions as we go and that's it.

I have to disagree. The originals didn't go into deep depth about the concepts, but they did explain what was happening well enough.

If Lucas had written the OT today, we would have gotten this scene between Luke and Ben:

Ben: You must come with me to Alderaan, and learn the ways of the Force, and become a Jedi like your father!

Luke: I don't get it. What is the Force? What is a Jedi?

Ben: (nodding sympathetically) Exactly!

Yeah Ben also took the time to explain to Luke what happened to his father and we all know how that worked out.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I love ROTJ even more than TESB. Objectively it isn't as good but dammit. I still like it more. Anyway.

Prequels? Yeah, I'll take them. AOTC in particular does try my patience though.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Not sure whether it ever made any sense, but I always tended to think Master Sifo-Dyas and Darth Sidious were the same person...from a writing standpoint, if they're not, it's sloppy to have two characters (one apparently significant in some manner and the other -obviously- significant) with such similar names.

Like Sauron and Saruman?