Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[Set Harth]

Movies are canon in the books.

You think?

Books aren’t canon in the movies.

You're thinking of Star Trek. That's the thing. Everything is always said to adhere to the Star Trek model, no matter what. But when you have a tier known as N-canon ( for non-canon ), what does that imply about the rest of it? And what of the instances where movies make direct reference to the books, such as that business on Cato Neimoidia?

At times, a stupidly complicated tier

It's really not complicated. It's structured around a fairly simple premise.

Incidentally, the new Disney books + the movies are supposably all canon with each other.

Which happens to be the very position you previously appeared to dispute. ( "Luke has had many in the books, including the new books which are supposed to carry equal weight with the films" only refers to Disney-canon where it says 'equal weight', it says nothing about the old system. ) But let's think of the implications of this. They're actually suggesting the current system doesn't follow the Star Trek model. As if such a thing were even possible!

 

[Trekkin]

what does that imply about the rest of it?

1. That they’re the same ‘canon’, in the sense that every Abrahamic text is part of the same canon? Or, for those wary of a shit fight, the wider Cthulhu Mythos?
ie. It’s/They’re not.

2. I don’t need ‘implication.’ I’ve got two licensers over two decades explicitly saying that not all Star Wars is created equal. Three, if you count the overseer of that so-effective-they-abandoned-it G->N system.

Chee:
"Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity.

You think?

You're thinking of Star Trek. That's the thing.

No I’m not. But if you start rubbing real hard and repeat it for a third time, I might start doing so!

(Note: If I was ‘thinking about Star Trek’, I’d just be saying that there is no ‘EU canon.’ At all. An approach IDW certainly embraced with gutso. If they want to churn out crossovers that are explicitly non-canonical with their other Trek series, then they will god-darn it!)

Which happens to be the very position you previously appeared to dispute. ( "Luke has had many in the books, including the new books which are supposed to carry equal weight with the films" only refers to Disney-canon where it says 'equal weight', it says nothing about the old system. )

But let's think of the implications of this. They're actually suggesting the current system doesn't follow the Star Trek model. As if such a thing were even possible!

No shit. It’s almost like I pointed out (twice) that Disney changed Lucasfilm’s approach, and now is the only time that the ‘equal weight’ claim has ever really been made by anyone with any real authority. In nearly exactly so many words.

It was so necessary for you to point it out. Now let’s think about the implications of that...

 

[fireproof78]

I don't remember any specific sources, I just remember hearing it a lot when Disney took over.
As for the video games, what I remember hearing is that the lore is canon, while the specific gameplay elements aren't.
With story driven games, like BF2's single play campaign, the story is canon.

A new rumor has popped up saying that the TFA novelization will canonize Luke being married, although it doesn't appear to actually identify his wife.
According to CBR the rumor is that this is the first line of the TFA novelization.

If this is true, then it does raise some interesting questions about what exactly happened to Luke between Return of the Jedi and TFA.
And just to prevent a debate, yes I still believe that Kylo Ren was telling the truth in TFA and Rey's parents really were nobodies.

No thanks.

 

[JD]

Why no thanks?
OK, the whole thing with Luke's wife has already been semi-debunked, apparently Luke is actually dreaming about what his life might have been like if he had given the droids to the Empire and never joined the rebellion.
So it really is the first line of the book, but it's been taken out of context.

 

[fireproof78]

Why no thanks?
OK, the whole thing with Luke's wife has already been semi-debunked, apparently Luke is actually dreaming about what his life might have been like if he had given the droids to the Empire and never joined the rebellion.
So it really is the first line of the book, but it's been taken out of context.

One, does Luke need a wife? Two, so we need to add yet another tragedy to Luke's life?

 

[Tuskin38]

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[Tuskin38]

If you’ve got a source for that, feel free. The ‘tier’ system has certainly changed multiple times over the years, and there’s been a few attempts at ‘exceptions’ to the ‘movies stand alone at the top’ rule (for eg. Force Unleashed and Shadow of the Empire were all intended to be equal at one point.)

But as far as I’ve been able to find, it was always a tier. At times, a stupidly complicated tier (A-G ‘levels’ of canonocity? Seriously?) That is, until Disney got their hands on it.

Which makes me really curious where Battlefront now fits in. Because it’s practically the only SW vidya game out yet, and well...how could it possibly fit in anywhere? Do you know how many times I’ve had a weirdly-American Krennic win the Battle of Scarif?

For Battlefront, the locations, characters, weapons, tech and stuff like that, are canon. The battles are obviously not because of the possible outcomes. The single player campaign in Battlefront 2 is canon.

 

[Tuskin38]

Everything I've seen has said that everything, the movies, books, comics, video games, ect. is equal.

In the new canon nearly everything is equal, but before the EU wipe there was a tiered system.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

 

[JD]

I'm aware of the old system, I was just talking about the Disney canon.

One, does Luke need a wife? Two, so we need to add yet another tragedy to Luke's life?

Luke having a wife wasn't a problem in the EU.
Things don't have to have ended tragically, but that's besides the point since we already know that it is just a dream sequence.

 

[Prax]

Luke has had at least one romance in the new canon. Her name was Nakira. She died tragically.

 

[fireproof78]

Luke having a wife wasn't a problem in the EU.

I hated it. No, hate has lost all meaning:

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[JD]

What's so bad about it? Did you just not like Mara? Or did you want Luke to be celibate?

 

[Reverend]

Personally, my problem was that it seemed to instantly relegate Mara to the role of side-kick bit player. It also didn't seem to impact Luke's character at all beyond having a means to produce a new Skywalker heir, which is really disturbing when one stops to think about it.

 

[JD]

Those are completely understandable reasons.

 

[Tosk]

Plus, "married or celibate" aren't the only options.

 

[Skywalker]

I liked Luke and Mara together, but it did kinda feel like they only had them marry and have a child because they wanted a character named Skywalker to become the focal hero of the next generation. Which is kinda lame, especially when they already had an excellent candidate for that role in Anakin Solo, who was unfortunately killed off. I've heard a few different reasons for the choice to kill off Anakin, but I'm still not sure which is true. Whatever the reason, it was a poor decision.

 

[fireproof78]

What's so bad about it? Did you just not like Mara? Or did you want Luke to be celibate?

Rather binary options there, my friend.

Personally, I did not care for Mara. People complain about Mary Sue Rey and yet Mara felt like a Mary Sue to me, especially with the whole "Emperor's Left Hand Woman" role and that she "must kill Luke Skywalker!" or else...

That said, she did get some decent character growth over time, but her relationship with Luke always felt off to me. In addition, it reminds me now of the complaints about TLJ, yet the EU did it first. Set Luke up to have a family finally, and then tear it all down at the hands of his nephew.

I don't mind Luke having a relationship-at all. I thought it was an oversight to have Leia be his sister rather than someone else that Luke could take under his wing and train right from the get go,

I know I'll get flak for not liking Mara Jade, and she grew as a character in an ok way. I just didn't appreciate how she became Luke's wife.

 

[Set Harth]

I've heard a few different reasons for the choice to kill off Anakin, but I'm still not sure which is true. Whatever the reason, it was a poor decision.

It was supposedly because George thought people would get confused over the two Anakins.

Then that story was aggressively "mythbusted" because OH MY GOD YOU JERKS HE DOESN'T THINK PEOPLE ARE THAT STUPID WHY WOULD YOU EVEN THINK THAT.

...and then George had them change Korriban to "Moraband" because he thought Korriban sounded too much like Coruscant.

 

[Tuskin38]

IIRC the name Korriban is canon again, it’s just an older name for the planet now.

 

[LJones41]

What happened to the Resistance ground troops on Crait? You know, the ones who looked as if they had came straight from Hoth on "The Empire Strikes Back". I don't recall seeing engaged in actual combat against the First Order. I remember seeing one trooper inform another that the ground was made from salt. And a few minutes later, I don't recall seeing one trooper in front of the bunker. What happened to them? I don't recall seeing any of them aboard the Falcon at the end of the movie.