Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[indranee]

I don't think Kylo and Rey will be in "a relationship", per se. But I can easily see what most people and reviewers are seeing. They have electricity between them, and that sells in Hollywood.

I disagree about Daisy Ridley and John Boyega. They don't have romantic chemistry AT ALL. The flavor between them is very friendshippy. Very easygoing. And JJ and LF saw it and called it. That "romance" ship has totally sailed.

 

[fireproof78]

I disagree about Daisy Ridley and John Boyega. They don't have romantic chemistry AT ALL. The flavor between them is very friendshippy. Very easygoing. And JJ and LF saw it and called it. That "romance" ship has totally sailed.

Agree to disagree, but largely I don't care. Let the romance ship sail to the Gray Havens forever, please.

 

[T'Bonz]

I don't think Kylo and Rey will be in "a relationship", per se. But I can easily see what most people and reviewers are seeing. They have electricity between them, and that sells in Hollywood.

I disagree about Daisy Ridley and John Boyega. They don't have romantic chemistry AT ALL. The flavor between them is very friendshippy. Very easygoing. And JJ and LF saw it and called it. That "romance" ship has totally sailed.

Exactly. Kylo and Rey DO have chemistry but I don't want to see a romance between them.

 

[indranee]

Exactly. Kylo and Rey DO have chemistry but I don't want to see a romance between them.

you may not have a choice in the matter because as far as LF and JJ are concerned, they already do. I'd go as far as to posit that JJ is the father of "reylo" as HE sees it. RJ just continued what JJ started in the interrogation scene in TFA. And none of it was done w/o KK and Disney's approval.

I've also heard that Spielberg is remaking West Side Story. I wanna tell him Rian Johnson got there first, dude.

 

[Hela]

I'd go as far as to posit that JJ is the father of "reylo" as HE sees it. RJ just continued what JJ started in the interrogation scene in TFA.

Torture. Kylo tries to seduce Rey to his side, then resorts to hurting her when she says ‘you’re not literally a one-dimensional boogeyman, but you can still go fuck yourself’.

Until Rey turns the mind-rape back on him, makes him cry, then tries to run as far away as humanly possible. Culminating in near-bisection.

I suppose we do agree that Rian Johnson followed the same pattern from TFA. That Rey is decent, empathetic, and willing to help people in pain. But nonetheless recognises that she can’t just ‘fix’ toxic people, nor can she enable harmful behaviour and a textbook abusive mindset.

And by ‘not enable’, I mean ‘stops it.’ Forcibly. With lots of hot things flying into certain arseholes faces, and unconsciousness.

And i for one, am all aboard for another round. Maybe the series can end with her stranding his burned, bruised, and sorry ass on Tatooine. ‘It rhymes,’ and all.

 

[Vger23]

I've seen this movie three times now...and it's still enjoyable and entertaining from my perspective. I think they could have hired an editor...but otherwise it's the typical SW magic. I know it gets a lot of hate, but none of what's criticized falls into a bucket of anything I'd care about.

A- still holds for me.

 

[indranee]

Torture. Kylo tries to seduce Rey to his side, then resorts to hurting her when she says ‘you’re not literally a one-dimensional boogeyman, but you still can still go fuck yourself’.

Until Rey turns the mind-rape back on him, makes him cry, then tries to run as far away as humanly possible. Culminating in near-bisection.

I suppose we do agree that Rian Johnson followed the same pattern from TFA. That Rey is decent, empathetic, and willing to help people in pain. But nonetheless recognises that she can’t just ‘fix’ toxic people, nor can she enable harmful behaviour and a textbook abusive mindset.

And by ‘not enable’, I mean ‘stops it.’ Forcibly. With lots of hot things flying into certain arseholes faces, and unconsciousness.

And i for one, am all aboard for another round. Maybe the series can end with her stranding his burned, bruised, and sorry ass on Tatooine. ‘It rhymes,’ and all.

YOU may want that. LF and JJ don't. So it won't happen that way, because the ST -- whether you or anybody else like it or not -- is Ben Solo's redemption tale. He will be redeemed and saved. Not only is this tale drawn from literary and classic myths, it's fucking Disney. And Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is already their biggest draw. Whether YOU like it or not.

Once that happens, the Skywalker mythos will end.

 

[indranee]

btw, it's ALL ABOUT MARKETING, which is pretty much where Disney and now LF's head is at.

which is why LF is cannily drawing a line between the younger tumblr crowd and the older HBO/GoT crowd, and this is what is behind the recent decision. SW *will* split into two and show two very different dynamics... on the big screen and on TV.

And on tumblr (and hence the younger crowd), Adam Driver as Kylo Ren has pretty much ruled the roost for the last two months (only last week dethroned by another hot favorite of the teen bunch LOL). All you need for the whys and the hows is to take a look at tumblr demos and fandometrics stats, because Disney is looking at this as well... very closely.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-demographic-breakdown-of-Tumblr
https://thefandometrics.tumblr.com/

 

[Hela]

YOU may want that. LF and JJ don't. So it won't happen that way, because the ST -- whether you or anybody else like it or not -- is Ben Solo's redemption tale. He will be redeemed and saved.

Oh, now I’m convinced.

Also, what in the comment of ‘Rey dumps his ass on Tatooine’ implied that I didn’t think he may seek redemption? Are you under the impression that his only hope is for Rey to fuck the evil out of him?

Not only is this tale drawn from literary and classic myths, it's fucking Disney.

‘Classic myth’ (by which I’m assuming you mean Graeco-Roman) and ‘literary’ () aren’t big on slam-bang redemption. They’re rather fond of death, revenge, and hubris though.

Heracles is probably the big exception. But he literally pulled strings with godly relatives to get the opportunity, he was trying to redeem one bad thing (that wasn’t entirely his fault in the first place), and he kinda had to work at it. A lot. One good deed and a change of heart explicitly didn’t cut it.

Also, Disney totally killed everyone in their last Star Wars movie. And the ending of Rebels isn’t looking bright for Thrawn and some of our heroes.

Come to think of it, Star Wars tends to knock off all their villains without redemption. Vader and Ventress are really the only exceptions. So that’s two out of...what, over a dozen named villains? And it’s hardly like Ventress was saved by the power of love. She just rediscovered some of her buried principles, after some prompting via Evil continuously stabbing her in the back.

And Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is already their biggest draw. Whether YOU like it or not.

RLM videos and toy cross-guard lightsabers, do not make it so.

In the trailers for TFA, we had what...two shots of Kylo? Even with his oh-so-marketable get up? The burned husk of Vader had nearly as much visibility, and there was way more focus on Finn.

Once that happens, the Skywalker mythos will end.

No shit Sherlock. Kylo isn’t even a Skywalker. It’s already done.

And even that aside, Kylo could just as easily die from Ewok randomly dropping a rock on his (helmeted) head. Mythos ending does not require a ‘I can fix him momma!’

Hell, Jason’s (as in ‘and the Argonauts’) ‘mythos’ literally ended with a plank of wood falling on his head. Concluding some long, direct, and humiliating consequences for his douchebaggery. ‘Drawing from Classic Myth’ offers JJ and Disney so many violent and creative opportunities!

 

[Hela]

btw, it's ALL ABOUT MARKETING, which is pretty much where Disney and now LF's head is at.

which is why LF is cannily drawing a line between the younger tumblr crowd and the older HBO/GoT crowd, and this is what is behind the recent decision. SW *will* split into two and show two very different dynamics... on the big screen and on TV.

And on tumblr (and hence the younger crowd), Adam Driver as Kylo Ren has pretty much ruled the roost for the last two months (only last week dethroned by another hot favorite of the teen bunch LOL). All you need for the whys and the hows is to take a look at tumblr demos and fandometrics stats, because Disney is looking at this as well... very closely.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-demographic-breakdown-of-Tumblr
https://thefandometrics.tumblr.com/

Well, I guess it’s a nice change from everyone trying to say ‘I saw it on Reddit...’ as the be-all and end-all.

Right, breaking it down.

(1) Those links don’t say what your claiming. The Quora one points out that nearly half of tumblrs users are over 30, and the fandometrics one is just the front page. No Driver. Research reveals he only ‘ruled the roost’ for three weeks. Both times, he had Boyega and Fisher directly underneath him. He and Ridley have stayed in the top 20 for the same duration.

(2) Whilst I have no doubt that Disney has its means of data gathering from tumblr, I doubt it’s via fandometrics. Fandometrics doesn’t actually provide any statistics or data, just an unsourced ranking. That’s...not exactly useful to analysts with millions on the line. Who’s tagging? Why? Where? What are they saying? How many are doing so? None of its there.

(3) Fandometrics reveals GoT-related tags are some of the most-used on the site. If tumblr really is a cross section of the ‘younger’ crowd, and Disney really is using it as it’s only source of information and direction for marketing... why would Disney aim the ‘HBO’ stuff at another group? Can I have a source for that theory, please?​

On a totally unrelated tangent, did any else here know that tumblr is an absolute hub for bigots and propaganda? Apparently the commonly held beliefs about its demographics, makes it a great hunting ground to target the trusting and unwary.

 

[Kevman7987]

I thought tumblr was only for pornography and bigotry? At least that's what I'd heard from "the cool kids".

 

[Prax]

Smells like a kgb op

 

[ihno]

It wasn't a movie for me. I watched it with the family, my ten year old nephew liked it, my nieces not so much.

The beginning reminded me of Spaceballs and it was very long. Very very long. A major disappointment was that they went into a total different direction but not a good one. After Rouge One I once more got the impression that Disney has no idea how to fill the movies they are going to mass produce.

The antikapitalistic message on that casino planet made me google the conditions of the Disney workers afterwards. In that regard I learned something new but it didn't make Disney look good. And Hollywood in general.

 

[fireproof78]

The antikapitalistic message on that casino planet made me google the conditions of the Disney workers afterwards. In that regard I learned something new but it didn't make Disney look good. And Hollywood in general.

Because, they are not good.

 

[Set Harth]

Kylo isn’t even a Skywalker.

Kylo is a Skywalker.

 

[USS Firefly]

Kylo is a Skywalker.

I agree, he is a Solo and Skywalker

 

[Hela]

Kylo is a Skywalker.

(1) It’s not officially his name.
(2) He rejected his ties to his parents, and renamed himself to make the point.
(3) As of the last movie he’s decided the mere concept of ‘legacy’ was load of hooey, and rejected it wholesale.
(4) His mother would probably shoot you for referring to her as a Skywalker.​

So...nope. Putz doesn’t want to be part of the mythos, and luckily he avoids any technicalities that might bind him to it. If he wants it back, he can grovel for it. Like a ‘Fuck you mom! I do what I want’ kid in need of money.

Even a DNA test probably couldn’t match him. They’re not exactly equipped to deal with markers consisting of a whole heap of ‘nothing at all.’ What a shame.

 

[Reverend]

I agree, he is a Solo and Skywalker

Also a Naberrie and I think a Thule.

 

[Qonundrum]

Torture. Kylo tries to seduce Rey to his side, then resorts to hurting her when she says ‘you’re not literally a one-dimensional boogeyman, but you still can still go fuck yourself’.

You mean, "50 Shades of Rey"?

Until Rey turns the mind-rape back on him, makes him cry, then tries to run as far away as humanly possible. Culminating in near-bisection.

These characters are human's progenitors? Dang, and I thought "Lord of the Flies" was harsh!

I suppose we do agree that Rian Johnson followed the same pattern from TFA. That Rey is decent, empathetic, and willing to help people in pain. But nonetheless recognises that she can’t just ‘fix’ toxic people, nor can she enable harmful behaviour and a textbook abusive mindset.

It'd be more fun to see her fall to the Dark Side, but that's not going to happen.

And by ‘not enable’, I mean ‘stops it.’ Forcibly. With lots of hot things flying into certain arseholes faces, and unconsciousness.

And i for one, am all aboard for another round. Maybe the series can end with her stranding his burned, bruised, and sorry ass on Tatooine. ‘It rhymes,’ and all.

Yup. "50 Shades of Ren".

I've seen this movie three times now...and it's still enjoyable and entertaining from my perspective. I think they could have hired an editor...but otherwise it's the typical SW magic. I know it gets a lot of hate, but none of what's criticized falls into a bucket of anything I'd care about.

A- still holds for me.

Ditto. A couple scenes stuck out at the theater that seemed to be a bit jarring, but not too detracting when all was said and done.

I've read that the upcoming Blu-Ray will have a lot of deleted scenes. TLJ was long but it didn't feel long - to me, anyway, that's a good sign.

 

[Qonundrum]

Kylo is a Skywalker.

But not a solo Skywalker?

I agree, he is a Solo and Skywalker

Solo-ely Skywalker? Darn.