Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)

[Greylock Crescent]

That certainly is an intriguing possibility. And I'd definitely be interested to see how it might play out on screen.

And yes, I completely agree that the foundation of the film is that "the Force has awakened everywhere" (or, at least, re-awakened). Rey certainly would fit into that, as well as (potentially) Finn's sudden (and seemingly singular) defection from the ranks of Stormtroopers.

 

[theenglish]

That certainly is an intriguing possibility. And I'd definitely be interested to see how it might play out on screen.

And yes, I completely agree that the foundation of the film is that "the Force has awakened everywhere" (or, at least, re-awakened). Rey certainly would fit into that, as well as (potentially) Finn's sudden (and seemingly singular) defection from the ranks of Stormtroopers.

There is speculation that Finn is Lando's son. Wouldn't it be more interesting if he were Mace Windu's grandson? It would be an interesting twist making Rey's parentage unimportant to her character (as an ex-student of Luke's) but making Finn's vitally important to the story.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

My theory is that R2 has been the source of the Force all along. In this movie we saw R2 (the Force) awaken. In ANH Han says "May the Force be with You" and R2 was. R2 of course guided the torpedoes after Ben tells Luke to use the Force. You'll see in part IX written by Steven Moffat, it'll all make sense.

 

[Set Harth]

There is speculation that Finn is Lando's son. Wouldn't it be more interesting if he were Mace Windu's grandson?

Are there so few black people in the SW galaxy that they all have to be related?

and not even having learned how to build a proper lightsaber.

It seemed as though the different design of his saber was intentional in that it ended up having a practical use.

 

[Rincewiend]

I saw the movie last Tuesday...
On par, or close to, the OT. Way better than the PT...

 

[Ithekro]

Remember that Anakin was using the Force to Podrace before running into any Jedi. "He can see things before they happen. It is a Jedi trait." ~Qui-gon

 

[M.A.C.O.]

So how do people feel about that Rey + Fin vs Kylo lightsaber fight? Does anyone feel it stretches credibility that two characters who never handled a saber in their lives managed to hold their own against a trained swordsman like Kylo?


I found this video of Lucas talking about lightsabers, their mechanics and how sword play evolved in the series.

He talks OT from beginning to 13:10
He talks PT from 13:15, where he illustrates the difference from PT and OT.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIefj6dOhnM[/yt]

 

[{ Emilia }]

Is it Groundhog Day? Didn't we just discuss this?

The summary: Kylo Ren wasn't at his best because he was severely injured by Chewie's bowcaster, in a very unstable emotional state after killing his own father and not fully trained.

Finn and Rey both knew how to fight given their biographies. Plus, as seen with Luke in ANH (using the Force intuitively to destroy the Death Star) and even more Anakin (even as a kid while pod racing he used the Force, it's flat out stated in the prequels) if the Force is strong in you, you can do a lot by letting it in, trusting in it and letting it guide you. It seems to happen intuitively all throughout the Star Wars saga.
Rey has slowly been "letting the Force in" during TFA. It helped her fly the Falcon (she explicitly states she doesn't know how she did it), it helped her resist Kylo Ren's mind probing. It seems she actually learned from watching and feeling him do it on her. She then tested what she had just learned on that Stormtrooper who freed her. Makes total sense to me. She felt Ren trying to "force" her (pun intended) to say/do something and since she's force-sensitive she must've learned something from feeling that. So that's why she figured she could manipulate the Stormtrooper.

And then during the final fight she was on the defensive until Kylo started talking about the force and there you saw Rey finally "letting it in" completely and letting the Force guide her. Basically exactly what Luke did during the battle of the first Death Star. And just like little Ani intuitively used the Force.

That way she was able to defeat a severely injured, not fully trained, emotionally unstable Kylo Ren.

Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Trekkin]

She also followed Maz's instructions from earlier in the movie. Maz basically told her what The Force was, then told her to 'close your eyes and let it flow through you. It's always been there.' So when Kylo brings it up, that's what she does.

There were some hints earlier in the movie that she might have already been subconsciously using it. The stuff you can dismiss as quick reflexes and instincts. She could time when to slam the doors shut on the monster attacking Finn, worked out how to get the Falcon out of the Star Destroyer a split second after realising she was trapped (and about to be blown up by the TIE), the stuff she was babbling to Finn when she was saying that she didn't know how she managed to fly the Falcon, Ren mentioning she'd had dreams of an ocean and an island...

 

[Greylock Crescent]

^ Indeed. The clues and details are all there.

I think one of the reasons they don't always immediately register is that they're presented so matter-of-factly. A bit like Rey's character. Which is why she's become so relatable to so many moviegoers - of all ages and backgrounds.

 

[Mr Light]

What Disney Infinity leak?

 

[Greylock Crescent]

It was posted here.

Basically, in-game, Ren calls Rey, "cousin."

 

[Mr Light]

I knew it!!!!

But I sincerely doubt Disney Infinity is considered canon. Don't the characters exist side by side with Pixar and whatnot in that thing?

 

[Trekkin]

It was also discredited. I went to double-check and watch the footage myself just after I posted, and saw the play through had been yanked. I dug around a bit, and it turns out Ren says 'Fight Me!' at the beginning of the stage 'Curses!' if you wound him. The player accidentally managed to trigger both bits of dialogue at once, making it sound like 'Fight me cousin!' The guy who originated the footage and the claim pulled his video when he realised he'd been wrong.

Sorry. I did delete that part of my comment where I mentioned the rumour, but it looks like I was a bit slow. I'm personally kinda happy it was wrong. It means my pet-theory still has a fighting chance.

 

[Kor]

Yeah, I really didn't think it clearly said "cousin."

It is interesting to consider the evolution of lightsaber combat like in the video above. I've always felt that the duel in ANH is the least visually exciting of all the SW duels. But it is very similar to tons of classic samurai films, where the two opponents face off for quite a while without actually moving very much, almost like a chess match. And Kurosawa was an acknowledged influence on SW.

Kor

 

[USS Triumphant]

My theory is that R2 has been the source of the Force all along. In this movie we saw R2 (the Force) awaken. In ANH Han says "May the Force be with You" and R2 was. R2 of course guided the torpedoes after Ben tells Luke to use the Force. You'll see in part IX written by Steven Moffat, it'll all make sense.

This... makes more sense than it should.

It seemed as though the different design of his saber was intentional in that it ended up having a practical use.

No, either he didn't know what he was doing, he couldn't get proper materials, or both. His crystal is even cracked. (Source: Visual Dictionary)

 

[Kor]

Is there any indication in the movie that Kylo's saber was inferior to others?
As far as I could tell, it worked the same. The blades were just more jagged-looking.

Kor

 

[theenglish]

We also never get any indication that Kylo Ren is a skilled swordsman. Throughout the movie, he displays some incredible force abilities we've never seen before but seems to be lacking in many other areas. We never see force jump or use force speed, for example. I also can't remember if we ever see him move objects other than the blaster bolt.

Is there any indication in the movie that Kylo's saber was inferior to others?
As far as I could tell, it worked the same. The blades were just more jagged-looking.

Kor

No, there doesn't seem to be any difference in terms of power, but I took it as a symbol that he was flawed in his jedi abilities. Luke building a new lightsaber in ROTJ signals the completion of his jedi training so it appears that only jedi can construct true lightsabers.

 

[davejames]

Or it could be he just wasn't interested in refining his lightsaber any further, and thought the raw and jagged appearance already suited him perfectly well.

 

[Kor]

Apparently the Clone Wars cartoons gave more explanation about lightsaber construction. A Jedi apprentice finds a white kyber crystal (which are naturally attuned to the Force), and its color changes permanently, based on a connection with that particular person. In most cases it will turn blue or green for Jedi. It always turns red for Dark Side users. And then properly combining all the physical components of the saber together simultaneously (without physically touching them) is some kind of disciplined meditative exercise.

Sure, people other than Jedi are able to swing a lightsaber around (General Grievous or Finn, for example), but only somebody skilled in "The Force" such as a Jedi (or Sith) can actually construct one, and they don't go around distributing them to others. The simple fact that only Jedi generally have lightsabers at all would lead them to be considered "the weapon of a Jedi" (besides being viewed by many as arcane and old-fashioned in comparison to ranged weapons like blasters).

Kor