Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)

[Maab of the Ten Tribes]

As for people that have a problem with Rey "all of a sudden knowing how to fight with a light saber", the first thing I noticed when she was fighting Ren was that she clearly had no idea how to use the thing. I thought they did a good job of conveying that she was new to it with the way she was thrusting at him. It looked very awkward to me, which, I think, was intentional.

Also let's face it, the battle didn't end because Rey "won". The earth split apart so that ended that right then and there. Yeah, she had him down but we will never know if she truly would have won that battle. Technically it wasn't over yet.

 

[theenglish]

Apparently the Clone Wars cartoons gave more explanation about lightsaber construction. A Jedi apprentice finds a white kyber crystal (which are naturally attuned to the Force), and its color changes permanently, based on a connection with that particular person. In most cases it will turn blue or green for Jedi. It always turns red for Dark Side users. And then properly combining all the physical components of the saber together simultaneously (without physically touching them) is some kind of disciplined meditative exercise.
Kor

Thanks for that--I never really watched that series. One thing I wondered (and I'm really just extrapolating on my new pet theory) is if Mace Windu's purple lightsaber represented that he had some kind of connection with both the light and dark side.

 

[davejames]

Sure, people other than Jedi are able to swing a lightsaber around (General Grievous or Finn, for example), but only somebody skilled in "The Force" such as a Jedi (or Sith) can actually construct one, and they don't go around distributing them to others. The simple fact that only Jedi generally have lightsabers at all would lead them to be considered "the weapon of a Jedi" (besides being viewed by many as arcane and old-fashioned in comparison to ranged weapons like blasters).

Yeah we've seen in the new comics that by the time of the OT, lightsabers are regarded more as interesting keepsakes or artifacts for display than as actual weapons. Much like what samurai swords have become in our world.

And even for the Jedi and Sith, you get the sense they use them not because they're the most effective or powerful weapons they could ever use, but simply because of the tradition and nobility that goes along with using them.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I wish that Han Solo would have gotten t take the Falcon into battle. He didn't get a chance to use the Falcon in ROTJ which obviously sucked I would rather have had him in the Falcon blowing up the Death Star II then Lando but I was really hoping he would get some Falcon time in this movie. We only see him ferry Rey and Finn. A bit disappointing to be sure.

 

[davejames]

Well we did see him taking the Falcon on the mission to Starkiller Base (where he promptly crashes it in the snow).

For me the thing I'll really miss is seeing Han interacting with Luke or Lando again. That's something I think most of us just expected we would see at some point in a sequel trilogy, and have been looking forward to for years... and now it's never going to happen.

 

[JD]

I think it might have been an interesting way to differentiate JJ's Star Wars from the original trilogy, seeing as how his Trek movies were kind of viewed as a possible indication of what was to come with his work on Star Wars.

Kor

Thats one thing I hate what Abrams did with Trek. He tried to make it like Star Wars. Hopefully the third one will be the last.

Just keep in mind that we have a different director, and a whole different team of writers on Star Trek Beyond, so your expectations shouldn't just be based on what Abrams and his writers did.

^ So Anakin's "presence" was part of Rey's acceptance of the Force, and, therefore, part of why she succeeded?

I suppose it's possible. But that runs contrary to the explicit "Stop taking my hand" intent of Rey's character in the film.

That was just offered up as a possibility based on a book I read a long time ago.

I do stand by my theory of the Force has awakened everywhere though.

Someone hypothesized that the story of these films might be that the light and dark sides will need to work together to overcome a greater danger. I also like that idea. It would allow for an interesting evolution of the force where force users could exist that combine both sides of the force at once--kind of like the ending of that PIXAR movie from earlier this year.

They did do something kind of along those lines in the Legends books. At one point Luke and his New Jedi Order are introduced to a new philosophy on the Force that says there is no Dark or Light side, and that it all just depends on what the person does. It didn't last real long, but while they were following that, I believe they did have the characters using powers and taking actions usually associated with Dark Side.

As for Rey's fight with Ren, I never really had a problem with it. I don't see where the Force guiding Rey in her fight with Ben is really that different from the stuff we saw Luke and Anakin do. I don't really think the specific actions are what's important, it's just that the Force is helping them do whatever it is they need to do in that situation.

 

[Mr Light]

So, what are we calling the ability Kylo used to stop the laser bolt and hold people? Force Stasis? I believe that's a power in KOTR.

<<They did do something kind of along those lines in the Legends books. At one point Luke and his New Jedi Order are introduced to a new philosophy on the Force that says there is no Dark or Light side, and that it all just depends on what the person does. It didn't last real long, but while they were following that, I believe they did have the characters using powers and taking actions usually associated with Dark Side.>>

If I recall correctly, in the Dark Nest Trilogy Luke even used Force Lightning, and he started prematurely aging, and he realized he was heading down the wrong path and stopped.

 

[Kor]

In the game "Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast," you could develop both "light" and "dark" powers. There was some in-game explanation about following more of a middle-of-the-road path, or something.

Kor

 

[DWF]

As for people that have a problem with Rey "all of a sudden knowing how to fight with a light saber", the first thing I noticed when she was fighting Ren was that she clearly had no idea how to use the thing. I thought they did a good job of conveying that she was new to it with the way she was thrusting at him. It looked very awkward to me, which, I think, was intentional.

Also let's face it, the battle didn't end because Rey "won". The earth split apart so that ended that right then and there. Yeah, she had him down but we will never know if she truly would have won that battle. Technically it wasn't over yet.

It looked to me as though she destroyed his lightsaber, so teh battle was pretty much over.

 

[Skywalker]

So, what are we calling the ability Kylo used to stop the laser bolt and hold people? Force Stasis? I believe that's a power in KOTR.

Probably just plain old telekinesis. For any Force user of his potential power (given his Skywalker blood) it would probably be a simple matter to keep a blob of plasma or energy or whatever that was hanging in the air.

That was a pretty cool effect to see in 3D, by the way.

 

[tomalak301]

My theory is that R2 has been the source of the Force all along. In this movie we saw R2 (the Force) awaken. In ANH Han says "May the Force be with You" and R2 was. R2 of course guided the torpedoes after Ben tells Luke to use the Force. You'll see in part IX written by Steven Moffat, it'll all make sense.

That's a theory I hadn't considered and it's one I really like. But then during the battles between Luke and Vader, R2 isn't there, is he?

 

[Trekkin]

During the final battle with Vader and the Emperor ROTJ, Artoo had been shot and literally had pieces falling out of him.

Of course, that was just so he could be at the battle in spirit! It's why he's fine by the dance-party ending!

 

[MacLeod]

How did Luke know how to utilize the Force to fire that crucial torpedo at the first Death Star?
The thing is probably just that you have to give in to the force and let it guide you. That's also what Obi-Wan told him while he was training on the Falcon. Don't think, just feel the force. And that's pretty much what Rey did when Kylo kept pushing her.

A lot of force usage seems to be really intuitive in emergency situations. And it has been like this in all the movies so far.

Plus again: She was good at fighting with her staff, he was an emotional mess after killing his dad and he was seriously injured by Chewie's bowcaster and he wasn't fully trained. In the realm of Star Wars it seems pretty realistic for the Force to guide Rey. She found some kind of peace in the force in that moment. It was obvious when she closed her eyes. While Kylo was an emotional wreck.

And of course to support this line of reasoning there is this line from ANH

"Use the Force Luke, Let go Luke.. Trust me."

In otherwords let the force guide you, how is that any different than Rey letting the Force guide her in her battle with Ren? Luke at that point had barely any training just the little that Obi-Wan had given them on the Falcon. Luke hadn't really even heard of the Force prior to meeting Obi-Wan. Rey had heard of the Force so might already know what it could do i.e mind-trick. Sure you might dismiss the story as Fiction when you first hear it. But then someone i.e Han tells you the stories are true. You might move from a position of sceptisim to one of acceptance. Remember Luke was sceptical about the force witness the scene on Degobah with Ypda lifting the X-Wing

"I Don't Believe it."

"That is why you fail"

It wasn't until she allowed the Force in that she was able to defeat Ren, ub until that point Ren had the upperhand.

 

[DarKush]

One thing I think is key is that we heard Obi Wan's spirit voice urging Luke on, giving him encouragement when he blew up the Death Star. I also think Ben spoke to him again on Hoth, but I can't be sure about that. It's been a while since I saw those movies.

It could be that Rey is stronger in the Force than Luke and doesn't need any guidance like that, but time will tell.

 

[Set Harth]

And then properly combining all the physical components of the saber together simultaneously (without physically touching them) is some kind of disciplined meditative exercise.

People who played the Force Unleashed games may recall a cutscene that depicted this process. It was also depicted in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars cartoon.

In the game "Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast," you could develop both "light" and "dark" powers. There was some in-game explanation about following more of a middle-of-the-road path, or something.

Gameplay mechanics are notorious for not necessarily representing "canon". The games don't portray any incremental corruption from continual use of dark side powers, something which was strongly implied in the films. Some games determine your light side or dark side status by the morality of your behavior during the game in terms of how it affects others, but you don't become more darksided by using the dark side more often. For example, in Jedi Academy, if you start getting as many dark side abilities as light side ones, your mentor will gently admonish you of the alleged "danger" between levels, but that's about it.

 

[bbjeg]

... If I recall correctly, in the Dark Nest Trilogy Luke even used Force Lightning, and he started prematurely aging, and he realized he was heading down the wrong path and stopped.

I've heard convincing arguments that Luke just uses the Dark side of the force (for good reasons). In TESB, Luke force chokes a Gamorrean as he enters Jaba's palace.

 

[CaptainWacky]

(Haven't read most of the posts in this thread sorry.)

It was basically Star Trek (2009) but with the "Star Wars" skin installed. It was enjoyable while watching it but left me with a lot of "what did that mean?" and "why did they do that?" type questions. There was a lot of "CAN THEY CAPTURE THE FEEL OF STAR WARS!?" questions going in and they did to some extent. The characters were good and likable and played by good actors. They obviously tried really hard to get this part right since it was the biggest problem with the prequels (not that the prequels didn't have good actors, they just didn't always get used well.) The humour was mostly funny (BB-8's thumbs up got the biggest laugh) but some lines felt a bit out of place in Star Wars. On the other hand where I don't think it captured the traditional Star Wars feel was the action. All the action scenes were really short and just there to transition into the next part. This made it fast paced yeah but I don't think it had a truly memorable or original action moment. The best was the TIEs chasing the Falcon through the crashed Star Destroyer but even that seemed short.

Daisy Ridley was great. Even when there were problems with the writing (SEE BELOW) she was always so damn likable. She was the best thing about the whole movie.

Finn was good and had funny lines. It is a bit weird that he's supposedly a stormtrooper conditioned from birth to serve the First Order but never once seemed conflicted in the film. And I don't know why they released two posters with him holding a lightsaber giving the impression that he's a Jedi. It's not like him being a stormtrooper was a huge plot point that had to be protected.

Kylo Ren was interesting because he clearly wasn't meant to be a new ultimate badass Sith guy. I liked the idea of him being conflicted and tempted by the light side. It's a shame they didn't really play up the conflict more as it was only in the one scene he had with Han that it seemed like he might turn good. And they could have explored why he actually wants to be evil. At least Anakin had the whole "wanting to stop death" thing but Ben just wants to be evil because...it's cool?

Harrison Ford! He was good! He definitely felt like an old Han Solo would. Chewie! Some good Chewie humour and he got to shoot lots of people. 3PO was...there. His voice felt off but I guess that's just Anthony Daniels being old. R2 being asleep for most of the movie and just waking up because it was time for him to wake up was lame.

Carrie Fisher...wasn't very good? I mean she couldn't move her face anymore and her voice was completely different (really noticable since I'd just watched the original movies) and while it was nice they got her in the movie but it really didn't feel like we were watching Leia.

Supreme Leader Felicity Smoak was terrible. I don't care if he isn't really a giant and just used a big hologra to scare people, it still looked like something that belonged in Harry Potter.

Commander Hux was meh. He felt like a kid playing dress up as an imperial. Kind of like Kylo, so I guess that was on purpose and the First Order are supposed to feel like stupid young people trying to be evil? But that could have been expanded on a lot.

I liked Poe Dameron a lot at the start and then he just disappeared for most of the movie and showed up again in an action scene which was confusing because it made you think "wait, isn't that the guy who died?" and then he just says "oh, I didn't die, I just left my jacket behind for no reason!" to explain it.

Maz's voice acting was good but she didn't seem like someone who was a thousand years old?

BB-8 was cute af.

ANYWAY, I liked the start a lot and then the stuff with Rey alone on Jakku was actually the best part of the movie. Even though it was kind of just another Tatooine at least it had all the older Imperial stuff lying around to make it look different. And she looked cute in that helmet. Then Han shows up and there's some really funny interactions but also some monsters that look like they belong in Men In Black and I don't know why they were in there.

Then about halfway through the movie the story changes from "where is Luke Skywalker?" to "oh there's another Death Star." Seriously Starkiller Base was so poorly set up. It appears for the first time out of nowhere then destroys a whole system of planets(?) and we don't know what those planets are other than that one looks like Coruscant. Oh and you can see them from Maz's planet but if that was a planet in the same system how the fuck was it not destroyed too? Or is this just JJ not understanding how space works.

Yeah the whole political situation was SO POORLY EXPLAINED. Like they didn't want to talk about politics at all because THE PREQUELS HAD POLITICS OMG so we don't really find out what the Republic is, how it relates to "The Resistance" (which is a stupid name) and what The First Order actually want. It was just "some planets have been destroyed, let's move on to the next bit!"

The attack on Starkiller Base felt like something out of a Star Wars video game where they just redo the story from the original movies except this is actually a new movie.

Han died and it wasn't really a big deal and Leia runs up and hugs a girl she doesn't know instead of Chewie!?

I liked how the lightsabers looked against the snow.

It was a bit disappointing how the Resistence ONLY had X-Wings and the First Order ONLY had TIE fighters. Did they think people would be confused by new spaceships?

So about Rey...I don't mind her beating Kylo in the duel because he was hurt and she was already showng to be a good fighter. And she used the Force to be a better fighter the same way Anakin used the Force to be a better podracer and Luke used it to destroy the Death Star, so that's fine (though she was so aggressive at the end it was almost like she wa using the Dark Side but that didn't come up in the movie.) And I know there's some people who are just sexist and don't want a female Jedi in THEIR Star Wars. BUT by the end of the movie she's already really great at Jedi stuff, she's the new captain of the Millennium Falcoln, she's best friends with the coolest dude (Chewie) AND she can understand droids and Wookiees...you don't have to be sexist to think that's a bit much. It reminded me of Kirk going from Cadet to Captain of the Enterprise within a few days in the first JJ Trek. But Daisy was so great that Rey never annoyed me.

Sorry I wrote so much but it's not like a new Star wars comes out every year!

 

[Turtletrekker]

As for people that have a problem with Rey "all of a sudden knowing how to fight with a light saber", the first thing I noticed when she was fighting Ren was that she clearly had no idea how to use the thing. I thought they did a good job of conveying that she was new to it with the way she was thrusting at him. It looked very awkward to me, which, I think, was intentional.

Recall that she was very proficient with a staff. Now, I've read comments from someone who is proficient with a staff in real-life and he stated that all of Rey's lightsaber moves were actually staff moves. That makes sense. She's fighting back using what she already knows, she didn't magically gain knowledge.

 

[Rincewiend]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lfocnclUFQ[/yt]

 

[Mach5]