• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Star Wars:The Clone Wars S3......so far

Professor Zoom said:
Anakin chose to not stay (ie, fulfill his destiny) so, it fell to Luke.

Anakin did actually fulfill his destiny ( 23 or so years late, but better late than
never ). This happened in ROTJ. I don't see how hanging around on Mortis would have prevented Order 66 and the rise of the Empire.


That is of course assuming killing the Emperor is actually fulfilling the prophecy.

No one (force ghost or not) said, "Hey thanks, you just fulfilled the prophecy!"

We're assuming getting rid of the bad guy IS fulfilling the prophecy.

But what if it isn't? What if it IS sitting around on Mortis?

How do we KNOW that he fulfilled it by tossing old Palps?
 
Professor Zoom said:
That is of course assuming killing the Emperor is actually fulfilling the prophecy.

No one (force ghost or not) said, "Hey thanks, you just fulfilled the prophecy!"

Lucas said it, and as far as I know he's no Force ghost. Not yet, anyway.

Professor Zoom said:
We're assuming getting rid of the bad guy IS fulfilling the prophecy.

But what if it isn't? What if it IS sitting around on Mortis?

How does sitting around on Mortis stop Palpatine from implementing Order 66 and ruling the galaxy?
 
Professor Zoom said:
That is of course assuming killing the Emperor is actually fulfilling the prophecy.

No one (force ghost or not) said, "Hey thanks, you just fulfilled the prophecy!"

Lucas said it, and as far as I know he's no Force ghost. Not yet, anyway.

Lucas has said lots of things. Including, what's on screen is canon.

So...

I am somewhat teasing, but, still...

Professor Zoom said:
We're assuming getting rid of the bad guy IS fulfilling the prophecy.

But what if it isn't? What if it IS sitting around on Mortis?

How does sitting around on Mortis stop Palpatine from implementing Order 66 and ruling the galaxy?

Well, Anakin didn't stop it either. Both of those things happened. So, I don't quite understand the point you are making.

Perhaps if he HAD been at Mortis and kept the brother and sister in balance, it might have weakened Palpatine's connection to the Dark Side.

As it is, Anakin failed to stop Order 66 and stop the Emperor from ruling the galaxy, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as proof Anakin made the right choice.
 
No one (force ghost or not) said, "Hey thanks, you just fulfilled the prophecy!"
:rommie:

Damn, Lucas really missed out! I'm envisioning a Las Vegas-style neon sign descending with flashing lights, confetti and showgirls coming out on stage, maybe with a few Ewoks thrown in for good measure, all doing the yub-yub dance.

Frakkin' Star Wars is worse than Lost. The more they explain, they less we know. :p

Anyway...since this story is apparently starting from scratch (again), here's what I think makes the most sense: Anakin clearly isn't destined to be a Jedi or a Sith. But since Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan went and butted in and frakked everything up by taking Anakin to train as a Jedi when he was supposed to stay on Tatooine till called to the Force World, the upshot of the Force World arc will be to make Anakin start thinking of some destiny for himself that transcends both groups, since objectively speaking, it looks increasingly obvious that neither of them really know what's going on in the galaxy.

Both Jedi and Sith understand little pieces of the picture, which they use to their own political ends. Why should the Chosen One feel bound by the rules of either group? I wouldn't!

Anakin will leave the Force World, of course, but he will remember what he's learned there. So every time something happens that cheeses him off - the Republic looks corrupt and unworthy of his efforts to defend it, the Jedi Council are being buttheads regarding Ahoska (not sure what exactly but I think there's a showdown regarding her in the future), the Jedi won't take his fears about Padme seriously, the Jedi won't let him on the Council - he can't help but think "why am I still hanging with these clowns? They're dragging me down!"

And when Sidious reveals that he's a Sith, why would Anakin be particularly offended by, or scared of, this? The Sith are just little ants to him, like the Jedi. (In fact Anakin's reaction in ROTS is not blase enough).

The key here is that Anakin is doing to see himself as someone with power over both the Dark and Light Sides of the Force, so siding with the Sith is no more "evil" than siding with the Jedi. His line from ROTS about "from my perspective, the Jedi are evil" is nonsensical now. What he really should be saying is, "from my perspective, the Jedi and Sith are equally clueless. Turn over all power to me, and I'll show you chumps how it's done."

I love Sam Witwer's quote above. Did he decide all that about his character or did Filoni tell him that? Either way, it works wonderfully. The Light/Dark Sides are just like Kirk in "The Enemy Within." A whole person can't do without both, a whole galaxy can't do without both. (EDIT: I see Christopher beat me to it.)

Again a version of the literal text was written out by Dan Wallace but he was forced to remove it, he speculated at the time it was because Lucas Film intended to touch up on it again and thus they have in the series.
Thanks, I was wondering whether it ever saw the light of day, but I think it's obvious now what it is. Bringing balance to the Force means literally controlling both sides so that neither gets too strong. Anakin doesn't want to be enslaved to the Force World forever because he's gotten so he enjoys charging around the galaxy waving a lightsaber and having a hot wife to go home to. Presumably the original plan was to drag him off to the Force World before he had a chance to check out other lifestyle options.

But now that he knows the truth about himself, why wouldn't Anakin start to wonder if he can balance the Force in a more metaphorical way, by remote control, by controlling both Jedi and Sith? He's supposed to be able to control the elemental forces that give both their power, so why shouldn't he be able to run both sides with ease, and have the Force-given right to do so, too?

He's already a Jedi, and now this Sith guy wants to team up. The gears are clicking in his mind. The problem with the Jedi is that they are too pigheaded to understand Anakin's radical new vision for the galaxy, and there are too many to control. So he teams up with Sidious and whittles the Jedi down to a reasonable number. Then he plans to off Sidious as well, eliminating all currently active Force-sensitives, and rule unilaterally with Padme handling all the political stuff.

It's easy to envision Ahsoka being part of this plan, especially if she's in exile because the Dark Side didn't wear off entirely or something like that. Anakin will need someone to help rebuild a new order of Force-sensitives, except this time there won't be any childish divisions between Jedi and Sith. But then Obi-Wan fraks that plan up, too. Obi-Wan sure likes to interfere with the will of the Force! It's a wonder he hasn't been zapped with a lightning bolt by now. :rommie:
 
Last edited:
As it is, Anakin failed to stop Order 66 and stop the Emperor from ruling the galaxy, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as proof Anakin made the right choice.

Because by not hanging around on Mortis for the rest of his life, Anakin was there at Palpatine's side to ultimately destroy him.
 
As it is, Anakin failed to stop Order 66 and stop the Emperor from ruling the galaxy, so I don't know why you keep bringing it up as proof Anakin made the right choice.

Because by not hanging around on Mortis for the rest of his life, Anakin was there at Palpatine's side to ultimately destroy him.


Right, so why do you bring up Order 66, etc?

Yeah, sure, FINALLY he does something... 20 years late...

AND, if he HAD stayed on Mortis... it would have seriously affected the Emperor's plan. He would be stuck with Dooku.... The burning of his face wouldn't have happened, the Jedi wouldn't have known he was a Sith, so they wouldn't have attempted to arrest him... ...Anakin would never become Vader, the younglings would've lived, Alderraan would be around, Luke and Leia would've had a mom... It goes on and on... I don't know if this is a case where better late than never applies.

.... it seems Anakin chose... poorly....
 
Even if the force would want balance between 'good' and 'evil' on the physical plane (and, appatently, it doesn't, if the end of ROTJ, with jedi ascendant and 'good' triumphant, means the force is in balance on the metaphysical plane)
Who says that the Force was in balance at the end of ROTJ? Maybe it was badly out of balance. Anakin never did achieve what he was supposed to achieve, to transcend both Jedi and Sith, and therefore be able to balance both sides of the Force.

"Returning" as a Jedi was not fulfillment of the prophecy anymore than remaining a Sith would have been. Luke was happy to have "redeemed" his father, but had no way of knowing anything about a prophecy or what Dad was supposed to be doing. Presumably the burden of discovering and fulfilling the prophecy now falls to Luke, or maybe Leia, or maybe both.

I think there's still more story to be told post-ROTJ, to get to the true end of the story, and I'm sure it would have to run roughshod over everything in the EU that's been published post-ROTJ, but since I've still yet to read any of that stuff, and I like the way TCW is going with the story, I'm happy to let them tear everything up by the roots.

Unless there would be an accord of sorts between the jedi and the sith, both agreeing not to antagonise the other side; in essence, both agreeing to seek only 'balance'.

That kind of co-existence seems to be the only proper end-state for the whole Star Wars story, but since the Dark Side inherently seeks conflict - which is a good thing because it creates dynamism - I don't see how it can ever be achieved. Peace will only occur if the Jedi and Sith are both eradicated. The Sith cannot stop fighting, and the Jedi will imbalance the system without Sith to counterbalance them.
 
Who says that the Force was in balance at the end of ROTJ?

You know who.:rommie:

Professor Zoom said:
Right, so why do you bring up Order 66, etc?

Because it was in place whether Anakin came back from Mortis or not.

Anakin never did achieve what he was supposed to achieve, to transcend both Jedi and Sith, and therefore be able to balance both sides of the Force.

He was supposed to destroy the Sith according to ROTS. He achieved that.

Professor Zoom said:
the Jedi wouldn't have known he was a Sith, so they wouldn't have attempted to arrest him...

Sucks to be him, I guess...? Order 66 still happens.

Professor Zoom said:
Alderraan would be around

Not a chance. The Emperor still has the Death Star, Alderaan go boom.

Professor Zoom said:
Luke and Leia would've had a mom...

And a completely different father, perhaps? Assuming Padme hooked up with someone else?

Professor Zoom said:
.... it seems Anakin chose... poorly....

He chose to return to the galaxy rather than sitting out the future on a planet in the middle of nowhere. Because of this choice he was able to ultimately fulfill his destiny by killing Palpatine. That's not the "wrong" choice.
 
Last edited:
Probably my favourate episode of the Clone Wars yet.
I had expected to see this one last night on Teletoon here in Canada, but the one we got was Ahsoka trying to foil Aurra Sing's assassination attempt on Padme. This came after the Savage Oppress trilogy. Is that the order in the U.S.?
 
They're messing the order all up! Ahsoka trying to foil Aurra Sing's assassination attempt on Padme should come before the Savage Oppress trilogy. I can see how the Aurra Sing episode might segue into where I think they're going with the current arc, but the big problem is that they changed Ahsoka and Anakin's looks a few episodes back (before Savage Oppress, after Aurra Sing) to indicate the passage of time.

Ahsoka in particular is getting a bit too mature to be running around wearing a bandage for a top, ahem. :rommie: She's also taller. Anakin looks older and they both have new clothes, which is good, the old ones must have been pretty stinky by now.
 
Is this the first episode we've seen Ahsoka with that yellow lightsaber? Did I miss something or is there going to be an out of order episode that deals with that?
 
Oh yeah and was it one of those shorter second lightsabers as well? I forget what they're called but Luke and Mara used them in "Legacy of the Force".
 
The picture has been looking very dark recently. It's sometimes hard to see what's going on.
 
Oh yeah and was it one of those shorter second lightsabers as well? I forget what they're called but Luke and Mara used them in "Legacy of the Force".
Shoto saber. Much like what Yoda uses.

I kinda like the new looks they gave em. Ahsoka is older, longer head tails, more mature. Better clothing. Anakin and Obi Wan no longer wear the half clone trooper armor sets.


I've never noticed her with two lightsabers.

See my avatar...
 
On a side note I've always liked how Ahsoka holds her lightsaber backwards instead of the traditional way. Cool character trait.
 
By bringing balance to the force it might mean wiping out both the Jedi and Sith. Making things pretty even.
I think the prophecy is better suited to Luke's actions and the whole Anakin being the one was a mistake by the Jedi who believed he was the one based solely on the fact that he was stronger in the force than others. But if he was created by Emperor Palpatine as hinted at in ROTS then it's a perfect way to fool the Jedi and allowing Anakin in as one of their own. But the whole thing backfires on Palpatine when the actual "one", Luke, is born.
 
Is this the first episode we've seen Ahsoka with that yellow lightsaber? Did I miss something or is there going to be an out of order episode that deals with that?

Not exactly. She had it back in Heroes on Both Sides, when we first saw her new model. This is the first time she's fired it up, though. In universe it's called a shoto. It's the japanese word for a blade that's longer than a dagger but shorter than a full sword.

Filoni talks about why she has it here:

http://www.cartoonnetwork.com/promos/201007_secretcode/tools/downloads/video6/index.html

(sorry non-us viewers, couldn't find it on youtube)
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top