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Star Wars Rebels Season Two (spoilers)
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Your source needs more training. ;-)
Fantastic episode. Blows last season's finale right out of the water!
Yeah, it was Nika Futterman. Though the part was only credited as "Presence", I can't help but wonder if that was meant to be the voice of Darth Traya. Because: Malachor.
I'd say it was more naivete than stupidity. He's not had the lifetime of early instruction that Ahsoka & Kanan had. He doesn't understand the subtleties of the dark side or appreciate the cost. He just sees the results.
Also, it's worth pointing out that Maul never really lied. Just about everything he said was essentially true.
I don't know. This is what came to mind when I saw that. Rather spoiled the effect.
Nope. Leaving aside that the Star Forge was Rakatta not Sith, that it was a *huge* space station not a stone pyramid: the shape is totally different. The Star Forge was a sphere with three elongated hexagons embedded in it. Also, it wasn't a weapon of mass destruction in and of itself, but a factory capable of building a near endless amount of droids, ships, weaponry and other such hardware.
Not really, no. For the most part they're just borrowing the name and doing their own thing. Design-wise, the aesthetic of the academy in the game is more flowing and organic while this Sith Temple is all about straight edges and triangular planes. That said, the clawed hand-ish look of the platform that rose up bares a passing similarity to the final map in the game.
Plus, Maul is still out there, so that's something else to look to.
Kanan being blinded was a real shock. I hope they stick with this going forward and don't just give him some cybernetic eyes. Blind Jedi are a bit of an old trope in the EU (including a whole species that was defined by this trait) and it'll be nice to see it explored in canon.
Interesting how they left things hanging with Ahsoka. The final shots on the planet show Vader limping into the light and Ahsoka walking into the shadowy depths...and then another lone space-owl flies away. You know it's symbolism because: space-owls!
Seriously though, does this mean Ahsoka has been broken by this? Has she awoken some lingering part of Anakin within Vader; a chink in his armor that Luke will later tease open?
We saw Maul fly off in one inquisitor's TIE, but there should be at least one more still there depending on what Chopper did to Eighth Brother's, so Ahsoka is not stranded there. At least in theory.
Interesting how they left things hanging with Ahsoka. The final shots on the planet show Vader limping into the light and Ahsoka walking into the shadowy depths...and then another lone space-owl flies away. You know it's symbolism because: space-owls!
Seriously though, does this mean Ahsoka has been broken by this? Has she awoken some lingering part of Anakin within Vader; a chink in his armor that Luke will later tease open?
We saw Maul fly off in one inquisitor's TIE, but there should be at least one more still there depending on what Chopper did to Eighth Brother's, so Ahsoka is not stranded there. At least in theory.
Yeah, it was Nika Futterman. Though the part was only credited as "Presence", I can't help but wonder if that was meant to be the voice of Darth Traya. Because: Malachor.
Not as glad as the toy company that's making his new one are.
I'd say it was more naivete than stupidity. He's not had the lifetime of early instruction that Ahsoka & Kanan had. He doesn't understand the subtleties of the dark side or appreciate the cost. He just sees the results.
Also, it's worth pointing out that Maul never really lied. Just about everything he said was essentially true.
I don't know. This is what came to mind when I saw that. Rather spoiled the effect.
Nope. Leaving aside that the Star Forge was Rakatta not Sith, that it was a *huge* space station not a stone pyramid: the shape is totally different. The Star Forge was a sphere with three elongated hexagons embedded in it. Also, it wasn't a weapon of mass destruction in and of itself, but a factory capable of building a near endless amount of droids, ships, weaponry and other such hardware.
Not really, no. For the most part they're just borrowing the name and doing their own thing. Design-wise, the aesthetic of the academy in the game is more flowing and organic while this Sith Temple is all about straight edges and triangular planes. That said, the clawed hand-ish look of the platform that rose up bares a passing similarity to the final map in the game.
I can't see Maul saving anyone if it didn't directly benefit him and by that point there was nothing to be gained from sticking around. According to the official website, there was originally a Maul vs. Vader fight at some point, but they decided it was one duel too many in an episode already filled with lighsaber fights.
Plus, Maul is still out there, so that's something else to look to.
People on twitter are bitching about the helicopter lightsabers. It thought it was awesome. I'm going to choose to believe this was a low gravity planet and that's why they never did it before.
Maul said in the episode he wanted their help to fight Vader, though. He wants to kill Vader because he replaced him.
Maul said in the episode he wanted their help to fight Vader, though. He wants to kill Vader because he replaced him.
For those wondering what the bit with blind Kanan suddenly adopting a reverse grip was all about: I think this may have something to do with it. 
Other random thoughts: -
Lots of shout-outs to the OT in this one: Ahsoka cleaving Vader's mask open is very reminiscent of Luke's vision on Dagobah, from the half exposed face to the shower of sparks. Plus the cry he gives sounds very much like when Luke cut his hand off over Endor and the malfunctioning respirator sounds just like it did after the Emperor fried him near the end.
Another parallel seems to be the initial conversation between Maul and Ezra. Seems like they were deliberately echoing Luke's first encounter with Yoda: -
-"I know where you are, you're with me!"/"Looking? Found someone you have I would say!"
-"Please put your weapon away. I mean you no harm."/"Away put your weapon, I mean you no harm."
-Perhaps I could help you." -"I doubt that."/-"Help, you I can, yes!" -"I don't think so"
-"Why are you here?"/"I am wondering, why are you here?"
The order is scrambled but the references are obvious.
Oh and am I right in that this is the first time the Sith Code has cropped up in canon?
Also: space-owl. Didn't fly off this time, it flew *down* and disappeared in smoke and shadow.
Probably have more thoughts later. Still processing.
Gravity is most likely not a factor since they seem to be actively generating lift, rather than just falling in a slow arc.
The closest I can get to a sensible explanation is that the blades were heating the air enough to cause a localised up-draft. Admittedly it's not *that* close to being sensible, but whatever. It really didn't bother me...even though part of my brain was waiting for one of them to say "Go-go gadget Inquisicopter!"
Other random thoughts: -
Lots of shout-outs to the OT in this one: Ahsoka cleaving Vader's mask open is very reminiscent of Luke's vision on Dagobah, from the half exposed face to the shower of sparks. Plus the cry he gives sounds very much like when Luke cut his hand off over Endor and the malfunctioning respirator sounds just like it did after the Emperor fried him near the end.
Another parallel seems to be the initial conversation between Maul and Ezra. Seems like they were deliberately echoing Luke's first encounter with Yoda: -
-"I know where you are, you're with me!"/"Looking? Found someone you have I would say!"
-"Please put your weapon away. I mean you no harm."/"Away put your weapon, I mean you no harm."
-Perhaps I could help you." -"I doubt that."/-"Help, you I can, yes!" -"I don't think so"
-"Why are you here?"/"I am wondering, why are you here?"
The order is scrambled but the references are obvious.
Oh and am I right in that this is the first time the Sith Code has cropped up in canon?
Also: space-owl. Didn't fly off this time, it flew *down* and disappeared in smoke and shadow.
Probably have more thoughts later. Still processing.
I think it was simply a bit of a contrivance in order to allow the Inquisitors to move around fast in an environment that should otherwise be very difficult to do so convincingly.
Gravity is most likely not a factor since they seem to be actively generating lift, rather than just falling in a slow arc.
The closest I can get to a sensible explanation is that the blades were heating the air enough to cause a localised up-draft. Admittedly it's not *that* close to being sensible, but whatever. It really didn't bother me...even though part of my brain was waiting for one of them to say "Go-go gadget Inquisicopter!"
I think we can presume that this is the least of the reasons why he wants Vader dead. Jealousy and resentment aside, the best way to draw out his old master is to kill his current apprentice. Not a terribly good plan considering how easily Sidious defeated him the last time, though presumably that's where the ancient Sith knowledge and a new apprentice of his own would come in.
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Also, they're presumably using a Force Push on their feet to keep them moving upwards, the same Luke did a super jump out of the carbon freezing chamber or Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon made those high jumps in the Duel of the Fates.
I just thought of something. If the pinnacle of the Sith Temple was in the open air like that, why not start there and make your way inside the interior from there to get the Holocron? Ezra and Maul didn't have to do any more heavy lifting after the main entrance. Maul just needs a jetpack or climbing equipment.
I just thought of something. If the pinnacle of the Sith Temple was in the open air like that, why not start there and make your way inside the interior from there to get the Holocron? Ezra and Maul didn't have to do any more heavy lifting after the main entrance. Maul just needs a jetpack or climbing equipment.
The pinnacle was originally closed. It didn't open up until after they got the holocron and started activating the temple.
Which actually begs a different question: if the weapon misfired and killed everyone there, Jedi and Sith alike, then who shut it down and put the holocron away? Could the ancient Sith Lord who's voice we heard have survived? If she was sealed in the same chamber that Vader & Ahsoka were in when it went off again then she could have survived the blast as they did. On the other hand it's just as likely her apprentice betrayed her, but then why leave the holocron behind?
Just finished watching moments ago. And, yeah, that was fucking amazing. I was utterly riveted the whole time.
I didn't mind the helicopter bit so much, but I did think it was a little silly. It reminded me of these guys from one of the Final Fantasies (VII, I think.) who pretty much did the same thing with their sword blades.
As far as the temple itself:
I didn't mind the helicopter bit so much, but I did think it was a little silly. It reminded me of these guys from one of the Final Fantasies (VII, I think.) who pretty much did the same thing with their sword blades.
I'm a little disappointed with what they did here. I had always assumed part of the reason they brought her into the show was to bring closure to the character. Frankly, I would have been happier had Vader strait-up ran his glow stick through her gut. I think he was trying too hard for the poetry, which I think is a bit antagonistic to the scope of the show.
As far as the temple itself:
With their new world-building, it seems Disney is borrowing a lot from the Legends lore. The evidence is everywhere. I suppose one could argue that it's all just a coincidence, but there are some references that are pretty blatant. I also think this "new" version of the Old Republic factors heavily in the background. To that end, I think Ren is Revan.
These days, Revan is probably the most popular non-canon Star Wars character, even surpassing Mara. I know Star Wars fans who never really dove into the EU or even played KOTOR who know who he is. So it seems reasonable Disney would want to make allusion to him. And, let's face it, who didn't immediately think "He kind of looks like Revan," the first time they say Kylo screen caps? And then there's the obvious name truncation.
But then "Ren" is his own unique person. And Kylo is obviously conceptually different from Revan. So here's where I'm going with this:
The name "First Order" always stuck me as odd and a bit and maybe a bit arbitrary. I suppose, on the surface, "first" could imply primary or dominate. But I think it actually means that it was literally first, or rather Snoke is trying to rebuild the original, ancient Sith organization/government/whatever. I've been thinking about this for awhile. But when Ezra picked up the cross-guard saber, I felt more confident. I mean, the whole scene was otherwise kind of random, unless it was there to confirm that Kylo's sword ties back to whatever was going on in this temple.
So what I think happened is, young Kylo became obsessed with Vader. In his research he find out (perhaps through some Force manipulation by Snoke), that Vader was, in tern, obsessed with this ancient temple. When he's old enough to go off on his own, Kylo travels to Malachor and learns about an ancient master of the Force. Kylo takes on the Force user's weapon, mantle (mask), and name. And starts a new group of followers based on these old teachings.
So who was Ren? Well, like I said, Revan. Or rather, an ancient Force user who learned both sides of the Force and commanded total dominion over it. The Malachor weapon was sort of the culmination of that power. In it's own way, it was true balance in the Force. Which is why Vader wanted it, and in turn, why Kylo would want it.
And so I think the Nika Futterman person was actually supposed to be the original Ren. Ren is a gender neutral name, after all. (It's common for both boys and girls in Japan.)
Now, a lot of this is immaterial, because they'd never make the films beholden to something that appeared in the cartoon. But the gist of all I just wrote could easily be passed along in a few lines of expo: "You must go to Malachor, Rey. A great and ancient power exists there that was coveted by Vader. You must destroy it before Kylo and his knights gain full control over it." That sort of thing.
These days, Revan is probably the most popular non-canon Star Wars character, even surpassing Mara. I know Star Wars fans who never really dove into the EU or even played KOTOR who know who he is. So it seems reasonable Disney would want to make allusion to him. And, let's face it, who didn't immediately think "He kind of looks like Revan," the first time they say Kylo screen caps? And then there's the obvious name truncation.
But then "Ren" is his own unique person. And Kylo is obviously conceptually different from Revan. So here's where I'm going with this:
The name "First Order" always stuck me as odd and a bit and maybe a bit arbitrary. I suppose, on the surface, "first" could imply primary or dominate. But I think it actually means that it was literally first, or rather Snoke is trying to rebuild the original, ancient Sith organization/government/whatever. I've been thinking about this for awhile. But when Ezra picked up the cross-guard saber, I felt more confident. I mean, the whole scene was otherwise kind of random, unless it was there to confirm that Kylo's sword ties back to whatever was going on in this temple.
So what I think happened is, young Kylo became obsessed with Vader. In his research he find out (perhaps through some Force manipulation by Snoke), that Vader was, in tern, obsessed with this ancient temple. When he's old enough to go off on his own, Kylo travels to Malachor and learns about an ancient master of the Force. Kylo takes on the Force user's weapon, mantle (mask), and name. And starts a new group of followers based on these old teachings.
So who was Ren? Well, like I said, Revan. Or rather, an ancient Force user who learned both sides of the Force and commanded total dominion over it. The Malachor weapon was sort of the culmination of that power. In it's own way, it was true balance in the Force. Which is why Vader wanted it, and in turn, why Kylo would want it.
And so I think the Nika Futterman person was actually supposed to be the original Ren. Ren is a gender neutral name, after all. (It's common for both boys and girls in Japan.)
Now, a lot of this is immaterial, because they'd never make the films beholden to something that appeared in the cartoon. But the gist of all I just wrote could easily be passed along in a few lines of expo: "You must go to Malachor, Rey. A great and ancient power exists there that was coveted by Vader. You must destroy it before Kylo and his knights gain full control over it." That sort of thing.
It's not likely
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03...ni-on-ahsokas-fate-mauls-return-and-much-more
So… Vader and Maul are going to totally fight next season, right?
I haven't seen the episode, so I can't comment on it, but I still wanted to let everyone here know that they've announced that E.K. Johnston is writing a new YA novel about Ahsoka between The Clone Wars and Rebels. I'm not sure if it's covering the whole period or just a specific event during that period.
screen caps of Kanan's burnt face
https://embed.gyazo.com/f152e024f8cf...17391bf5c5.png
http://i.imgur.com/814AvBt.jpg
I think his eyes are completely burnt away, I don't think he'll be healing from this
https://embed.gyazo.com/f152e024f8cf...17391bf5c5.png
http://i.imgur.com/814AvBt.jpg
I think his eyes are completely burnt away, I don't think he'll be healing from this
Maul called the old weapon a battle station and planned to use it against all his enemies.
I don't think this planet could move...so ancient Sith tech later used to a degree in the Death Star and this tech used to allow Starkiller Base to do what it does?
Which means what Yoda said about the legends of Sith superweapons with giant kyber crystals is not only true, but could also be were the "modern" superweapons come from...even Starkiller Base.
I don't think this planet could move...so ancient Sith tech later used to a degree in the Death Star and this tech used to allow Starkiller Base to do what it does?
Which means what Yoda said about the legends of Sith superweapons with giant kyber crystals is not only true, but could also be were the "modern" superweapons come from...even Starkiller Base.
Fantastic episode!
Anyone have any speculation on the meaning of the owl showing up at the end of this and the previous episode before they left on their mission to Malachor? The first thing that popped into my head when I saw it show up again in the finale was that it was symbolic of or even a form of the light side "Daughter" from the Mortis arc on Clone Wars, perhaps there to see our heroes off on one of their most dangerous trials, where Ezra would be tempted by the dark side. It was similar to her colors, and she transformed into a flying creature (along with her brother) during her original appearance, though not one like this. Filoni later said the owl definitely means something, but didn't specify what.
I like the multiple meanings of Twilight of the Apprentice, in that it could apply fairly well to Ahsoka's potential death, as most assumed, Ezra as he was facing a turn to darkness, or even Maul's transition from perpetual lackey to a master in his own right (unless you count his crusade with his brother).
Anyone have any speculation on the meaning of the owl showing up at the end of this and the previous episode before they left on their mission to Malachor? The first thing that popped into my head when I saw it show up again in the finale was that it was symbolic of or even a form of the light side "Daughter" from the Mortis arc on Clone Wars, perhaps there to see our heroes off on one of their most dangerous trials, where Ezra would be tempted by the dark side. It was similar to her colors, and she transformed into a flying creature (along with her brother) during her original appearance, though not one like this. Filoni later said the owl definitely means something, but didn't specify what.
I like the multiple meanings of Twilight of the Apprentice, in that it could apply fairly well to Ahsoka's potential death, as most assumed, Ezra as he was facing a turn to darkness, or even Maul's transition from perpetual lackey to a master in his own right (unless you count his crusade with his brother).
I suppose we could be literal and say that Yoda is Force-watching them through the owls.
So, given what happened on Malachor, why DID Yoda send them there? To expose Maul? Surely he didn't want Ahsoka to be almost killed by Vader and disappear. Or was he removing Ahsoka from the playing board to clear the way for Luke and Leia? Is Yoda out to kill Ezra and Kanan?
So, given what happened on Malachor, why DID Yoda send them there? To expose Maul? Surely he didn't want Ahsoka to be almost killed by Vader and disappear. Or was he removing Ahsoka from the playing board to clear the way for Luke and Leia? Is Yoda out to kill Ezra and Kanan?
I took it to mean that the temple itself was a battlestation and could take off by itself, only the ancient Jedi found and attacked it before it could do so.
I thought that was already implicit since we already knew the Death Star was well under way by the end of the Clone Wars.
I think it depends on how deep you want to go in interpreting things like music cues, shot composition ad colour choices. Since I already did a shot-by-shot of the "Space Owls of Ominous Foreshadowing" (which I shall henceforth call "Soof") in the previous episode, let's see what we get when we look at it's appearance at the end here.
The music swells again as he turns his head to the left.
P.S. While skipping through the Mortis episodes looking for a little insight (I agree, the Soof does have similar colouring to The Daughter) I came across something very interesting in the scene where she shows Kenobi the titular Alter of Mortis that contains the force blade.
There's no way that's not intentional.
Wow, outstanding analysis, Reverend! Thanks for putting in the time and effort and posting that. Excellent work. 
