Star Wars Rebels Season Four (spoilers)

[Christopher]

I just watched the scene again on youtube, and it seemed to me that Lando's objection was to using that specific facility, not to the process they were using. Basically that they were using an industrial facility on a person, which was not how it was meant to be used.

Yes, that's what Xerxes and I are saying. Lando says "We only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put Han in there, it might kill him." That's very straightforward -- carbon freezing is an industrial process that's potentially lethal if used on a human. Which suggests that there are other, related forms of cryogenic technology that are better suited for human use, and that Vader was trying to use carbon freezing as a substitute for whatever would normally be used. Which is why I disagree with the later assumption that carbon freezing is the standard and exclusive form of cryogenics in the SW-verse. That just doesn't fit the information we were given.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yes, that's what Xerxes and I are saying. Lando says "We only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put Han in there, it might kill him." That's very straightforward -- carbon freezing is an industrial process that's potentially lethal if used on a human. Which suggests that there are other, related forms of cryogenic technology that are better suited for human use, and that Vader was trying to use carbon freezing as a substitute for whatever would normally be used. Which is why I disagree with the later assumption that carbon freezing is the standard and exclusive form of cryogenics in the SW-verse. That just doesn't fit the information we were given.

Yeah, sure.

 

[JD]

Yes, that's what Xerxes and I are saying. Lando says "We only use this facility for carbon freezing. If you put Han in there, it might kill him." That's very straightforward -- carbon freezing is an industrial process that's potentially lethal if used on a human. Which suggests that there are other, related forms of cryogenic technology that are better suited for human use, and that Vader was trying to use carbon freezing as a substitute for whatever would normally be used. Which is why I disagree with the later assumption that carbon freezing is the standard and exclusive form of cryogenics in the SW-verse. That just doesn't fit the information we were given.

No, just I was talking about the facility, not the carbon freezing process. Even in the real world today, there are a lot of processes that are used in both industry and medicine, but the facilities and the standards for those facilities are different.
My impression here would be that carbon freezing is a common process, used both in industry and medicine, but all they had on Cloud City was an industrial facility that they then jury-rigged to make it useable on a human.

 

[Xerxes82]

No, just I was talking about the facility, not the carbon freezing process. Even in the real world today, there are a lot of processes that are used in both industry and medicine, but the facilities and the standards for those facilities are different.
My impression here would be that carbon freezing is a common process, used both in industry and medicine, but all they had on Cloud City was an industrial facility that they then jury-rigged to make it useable on a human.

This. This gets at what I was trying to say much more effectively than I managed.

 

[Christopher]

No, just I was talking about the facility, not the carbon freezing process.

Same thing. Lando's exact words: "We only use this facility for carbon freezing." So if you're talking about the facility, you are talking about the carbon freezing process, because that's explicitly the only thing it does. He doesn't say "only for industrial carbon freezing" or "only for a crude form of carbon freezing" -- he says "only for carbon freezing." So Lando is saying that carbon freezing may kill Han, period. Anything beyond that is presuming data not actually present in the dialogue.


I thnk we may be getting off of the key point. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to interpret TESB in the context of the larger SW universe as it now exists; just the opposite, I'm trying to discern what the original intention of Kasdan, Brackett, Lucas, Kershner, etc. probably was when they made the film in 1980. So I'm limiting myself to the letter of the script and to the plot logic as presented in the film, and considering those entirely in isolation. Because my hypothesis is that the way carbon freezing was interpreted later is distinct from what it was originally intended to be.

Now, I doubt very much that Kasdan, Brackett, etc. gave much thought to the larger practice of medical cryogenics in the galaxy far, far away. They just wanted to manufacture a threat to Han Solo and Luke Skywalker. It had to be something that could trap a living person, but for the sake of suspense, it also had to be potentially lethal. So their goal was to create something that was dangerous, and they just slapped on some technobabble that gave the impression they wanted. It wasn't worked out in any more detail than that. So it's vague enough to leave a lot of questions, because this was just a well-made popcorn movie that nobody expected to be analyzed to death decades later. But the key thing is, they invented it to be dangerous, albeit potentially survivable. So any later work that portrays it as routine or reliable is diverging from that intention, however you rationalize it.

 

[Reverend]

Chris mate, I think you're quickly approaching a state of peak pedantry. You might want to sit down and apply pressure to your temples or something.
You're also wrong, but hey, that's hardly the point, is it?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So any later work that portrays it as routine or reliable is diverging from that intention, however you rationalize it.

Except that that episode of The Clone Wars did not portray it as routine, as has been already discussed upthread. So:

 

[Turtletrekker]

The rumor mill has Ian McDiarmid returning to play Palpatine in season 4.

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/...mor-ian-mcdiarmid-emperor-palpatine-season-4/

 

[JD]

That would be cool if it happened, but since we've already gotten scene with the Emperor voiced by someone else I find it a bit doubtful.

 

[DimesDan]

That would be cool if it happened, but since we've already gotten scene with the Emperor voiced by someone else I find it a bit doubtful.

That was just in Clone Wars wasn't it? I don't remember him appearing in Rebels.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

That was just in Clone Wars wasn't it? I don't remember him appearing in Rebels.

Sam Witwer voiced the Emperor in "The Siege of Lothal."

 

[Christopher]

That would be cool if it happened, but since we've already gotten scene with the Emperor voiced by someone else I find it a bit doubtful.

The Clone Wars had instances of the same character being voiced by the movie actor in some episodes and a soundalike in others. For instance, Frank Oz, Christopher Lee, and Samuel L. Jackson did the pilot movie but not the series, and Jar-Jar was usually played by Ahmed Best and sometimes by an impersonator. And of course Tim Curry took over Palpatine after Ian Abercrombie's passing.

And of course Rebels just gave us both James Arnold Taylor and Stephen Stanton as Obi-Wan in the same episode, albeit at different ages. (And I could add that they've had both Matt Lanter and James Earl Jones play the same character, but that would be cheating. )

And then there were the characters played by a voice actor in TCW and the movie actor in Rebels, like Yoda (Tom Kane/Frank Oz), Mon Mothma (Kath Soucie/Genevieve O'Reilly), and Saw Gerrera (Andrew Kishino/Forest Whitaker, although in that case Kishino originated the role). It's a matter of availability and willingness. If they can manage to get the movie actor, they won't hesitate to put them in place of the more obscure actor they've used before.

 

[JD]

I didn't realize there'd been so much switching around of voice actors. I thought they'd pretty stuck to the same person except for the TCW movie, when Ian Ambercrombie died, and a few times when we've seen characters at different ages.

 

[Ithekro]

I think Sam Witwer also played Palpatine in the Lost episode and ther unfinished episodes of TCW, after they had Tim Curry for the last televised season following Ian Ambercrombie's death.

Ian McDiarmid has done voice acting for the Emperor in recent years...the Angry Birds commercial about joining the Pork Side, for instance. So it wouldn't be too far out there to get him to do a line or six for the end of Rebels. Sam Witwer can't be everybody (Steve Blum apparently is everybody though).

 

[Christopher]

I think Sam Witwer also played Palpatine in the Lost episode and ther unfinished episodes of TCW, after they had Tim Curry for the last televised season following Ian Ambercrombie's death.

Nope, I checked, and Palpatine didn't appear in either of the unfinished 4-parters that were released. Witwer has only played Palpatine in Rebels, LEGO Star Wars, and various video games.

 

[The Wormhole]

Tim Curry did Palpatine's voice throughout the entire sixth season of Clone Wars. Sam Witwer's was only Palpatine the one time he was in Rebels.

 

[Reverend]

Just to keep in in perspective: Witwer's stint as Palpatine on SWR was all of four or five lines. That's not the kind of thing for which you call up Ian McDiarmid.
Now if there's a few good sized scenes like Frank Oz's appearances as Yoda, or several smaller scenes spread across multiple episodes like James Earl Jones' appearances as Vader, then it'd probably be more worth his time. Or more to the point, worth the expense of hiring him. They are on a budget after all.

On a similar note, if Bail ever gets to have a more substantial role in season 4 then (with all due respect to the legendary Phil LaMarr) I hope they get Jimmy Smits to do the voice.

 

[The Wormhole]

On a similar note, if Bail ever gets to have a more substantial role in season 4 then (with all due respect to the legendary Phil LaMarr) I hope they get Jimmy Smits to do the voice.

LaMarr's Bail definitely sounds too much like Hermes Conrad, IMO.

 

[Reverend]

LaMarr's Bail definitely sounds too much like Hermes Conrad, IMO.

Aside from them both being Phil LaMarr voices, I don't see the similarity. His Bail may not sound much like Smits, but he definitely doesn't sound comically Jamaican either. Really, if it's close to anything else he's known for it's Samurai Jack or grown up Static. Hell, even his Kit Fisto is *WAY* closer than Hermes.

Anyway, there's always a balance with this kind of thing between impersonating another actor's performance and making the character one's own. In this case I'd say he does a good job of embodying the character. That said, Jimmy Smits would still be better.

 

[Christopher]

Aside from them both being Phil LaMarr voices, I don't see the similarity. His Bail may not sound much like Smits, but he definitely doesn't sound comically Jamaican either. Really, if it's close to anything else he's known for it's Samurai Jack or grown up Static. Hell, even his Kit Fisto is *WAY* closer than Hermes.

I completely agree. Bail is pretty close to Phil LaMarr's natural voice, as Samurai Jack is. He's not doing much with his voice beyond just being serious and dignified, and maybe emulating Smits' cadence/accent to a degree.

Anyway, there's always a balance with this kind of thing between impersonating another actor's performance and making the character one's own. In this case I'd say he does a good job of embodying the character. That said, Jimmy Smits would still be better.

For my own part, I prefer LaMarr. After all, thanks to the longevity of the animated shows, he's played Bail Organa significantly more often than Smits has, so I can't help thinking of him as the character's primary voice. And I just like the sound of his voice better.