Star Wars Books Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars' started by Mr Light, Feb 12, 2015.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They're never going to get better if people just meekly take the shit Disney spoon feeds them. Not that they will get better, but I'm not going to stop critisizing them. The old EU is the reason I'm a big Star Wars, I like the movies a lot but I wouldn't consider SW one of my favorite franchises just based on the movies. So I'm never going to completely abandon the books, even if Disney gives no shits about them and only produces about 1 or 2 good books every few years.

    We may be at the point where we only get good SW books at about the same rate as a leap year happens, but I'll still be paying attention, hoping for something good to come out of the marketing hellscape that is Disney's mishandling of the SW books. They're almost as bad at books as they are good at movies (with mostly great movies with one exception [Solo], although there is more then one good book so the comparison isn't exact).
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    All that does is reinforce "the shit" as you say. Not buying them sends a different message that you are willing to accept it.
     
  3. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really feel like having a million quotes, so I am just going to put this here as a response to everything @kirk55555 has posted since my last post.

    I also really, really enjoyed both Rogue One and Solo, and I'd put them right up there at the top of the franchise.
    I had taken a short break from Most Wanted to finish up the Star Trek novel I was reading, but I'm almost done with that so I should be back to MW in the next day or two. I'm 5 chapters in and so far I've been enjoying it. It hasn't been amazing, but it's been good, and we've already gotten some nice bits of material for Han, Qi'ra and some of the other characters on Corellia. I was surprised when I saw on Wookiepedia that it takes place less than a year before Solo, I had assumed Han and Qi'ra has been together for a really long time.
     
  4. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Was not expecting that. I might read it.
     
  5. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Uh, no, not buying something doesn't signal that I accept it :vulcan: Besides which, I use the public library for most new canon books, and the ones I own I bought used. The new canon books are going to have to become way more consistently good for me to be willing to buy them new, that's way too much of a gamble at this point.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I miswrote that. Basically, buying it demonstrates that it is what is wanted.

    Not buying demonstrates rejection.

    Simple Economics.
     
  7. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You have conviction, I will give you that.

    Fair enough. Cannot relate, but fair enough.

    ______

    Repeating that won't make it any less false then it was the half dozen other times you've stated it.

    Funny you should say that...

    (As far as Disney having low standards for their tie-in authors, consider that they have the likes of James Lucino, John Jackson Miller, Ben Acker, and Ben Blacker on their payrolls, and have had guest authors like Paul Dini and Matt Fraction.)

    I do not understand your problem with her not being the POV character inasmuch as it means she's not the main one.

    That is factually wrong, and I'm speaking as someone who got a degree on this subject. You don't like it fine, but it is a legitimate form of storytelling. You want to diss it, explain why the technique failed in this instance, but leave the false arguments out of it.

    Nope, not even close.

    You miss the flavor of the book and the artistry of the presentation.

    Afraid I can't address why the book is "shit," because you haven't given a reason why that is (false claims about the writing craft do not count) and never even finished the book, and so are arguing on incomplete data. (Frankly, I think a good case can be made about it being quite good, but pearls before swine and all that.)

    Given how little you've shown you understand the craft of writing, I find you to be a very unconvincing witness, esp. since everything I know about it says otherwise.

    Everything you've said is contradicted in the novel, and, unlike you, I actually know what I'm frakking taking about since I read the thing cover to cover.

    Thank you for proving my point.

    Hey, I've got no problem if you don't like the book. Heck, I don't like the ROTS novelization that much. What I'm holding you to is having arguments that work. Twisting the book's narrative and making up rules about how writing does or does not work to justify your own opinions on the product does no one anyone good. Nothing wrong with not liking something just because it doesn't appeal to you.
     
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  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Good advice. We should all listen to that with this upcoming SW film and the like.
     
  9. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, given how some of the previous movies have had some divisiveness to them, we probably will be getting a lot of hot takes and the most belligerent voices will probably dominate the conversation, creating a scenario where those who reasonably disagree with one side or the other get lumped and treated like they with the toxic ones.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. I recently noticed an article at syfy or something regarding Lucas helping out on the script of IX. And my thought was immediately to the possibility of Lucas being praised while Abrams will take the flak for whatever was wrong.

    It saddens me that legitimate critique seems to no longer be able to be separated from emotional responses and inflammatory language.
     
  11. WebLurker

    WebLurker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Weird how perspectives change. Back in the '90s, there was all this appalling hate for Lucas. I don't have a problem with people not liking the Special Editions or the prequels and stuff on their own, but the whole "Lucas raped my childhood" sub-culture was crossing the line in how they attacked him for no good reason and not being willing to say "I don't like it and that's okay." I mean, it's on record that one of the reasons Lucas sold LucasFilm to Disney was because he was tired of the crap people were giving him for making movies that they didn't have to see. JJ Abrams, when he did TFA, was generally welcomed when he was first announced as the director and the movie itself was well-praised across the board.

    Now, lots of fans, including many who hated Lucas back in the day, are getting riled up that Disney is forging its own (successful) way forward and ignoring Lucas's original sequel ideas, to the point that many want him back, to make Star Wars great again, or something like that. Abrams is in a position where, when he was brought back, there were vocal people who wanted someone else, claiming that TFA was just an ANH remake and that he would just do that again. Seriously? (Personally, I never understood the Lucas hate, but I do like the post-Special Edition updates overall and am a prequel fan, although I think it's okay if Lucas' time with the franchise is done. I personally thought Abrams did a good job with TFA and that it wasn't an ANH remake anymore then the other movies remade each other. I actually think bringing him back was a good call.)

    I think the Internet contributes; people can respond instantly without giving much thought to what they say, echo chambers form easily, allowing people to build a great misconception of the world (look up Comicsgate if you want to see that taken to toxic levels), and extremism lets you stand out of the competing internet voices. There's always those immature few who'll spout off anyways, but I think all the factors create a situation where even reasonable people can go off the rails, esp. when dealing with the extremists.
     
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  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just looked through StarWars.com's article on the Lucasfilm Publishing panel, and there don't appear to have been any new book annoucements besides a new Jeffrey Brown picture book.
    They did announce that Hera will be the head of Alphabet Squadron in their book, and that Cardinal from Phasma will be appearing in one of the Galaxy's Edge books. Although with the link up thread it looks like we might have already known that.
    Oh, and Lando's Luck author Justina Ireland has a secret book coming out that they can't talk about yet.
    They also did confirm that there will be a Journey to The Rise of Skywalker line like there was for both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi.
     
  13. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Um, I don't see anything about Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber, but if its the book written by the shit author of Phasma, it doesn't count because she created the idiots.

    Most of those people don't really scream "high standards", especially the kids book authors. Lucino is ok, and JJM is pretty good (he wrote a great Obi Wan book, and he's literally the only person on Earth who has written Kanan and Hera from Rebels in a way that made them actually compelling characters). But, you can't count people that wrote for the anthology, though, that's a bit ridiculous.

    Generally, Disney seems to hire mediocre or outright bad writers for most books (presumably because they are cheap or someone at Disney's publishing section knows them/their agents), with a few good writers like Zahn sometimes get thrown a job probably because people like Claudia Gray, Dawson, etc. periodically take SW breaks to write more of their own crap and Disney needs to fill the gap in the schedule.

    Missing the flavor of crap isn't missing anything.

    I think that the book being too shit to finish says enough. Imagine if you actually had to read all of a terrible book to call it bad :rommie:

    I have contradicted nothing, unless you can prove that the wookiepedia article is lying, and you haven't even pretended that it is.

    All my arguments work, you just don't like them so you dismiss them, which is your problem, not mine :shrug:
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually Delilah S. Dawson, Zoraida Cordova, I'm not sure if I spelled that right, and I don't feel like looking it up right now, and Claudia Gray are some of the biggest names in YA, and whether certain people like it or not, YA is probably one of the biggest book markets right now, so Disney actually getting them to write Star Wars books is a pretty big deal.
     
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  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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  16. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lots of new information and reveals at the Marvel comics panel. There's a lot there, so I'm not even going through it here.
    IDW also did their panel, where they revealed that Jaxxon, the green rabbit alien from Marvel's original comics series will be appearing in the next Star Wars Adventures Annual, and that they will be doing another Tales from Vader's Castle series with the original creative team. The Annual with Jaxxon will feature a cover by Usagi Yojimbo creator Stan Sakai.
     
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  17. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, because no Star Wars books made for people who aren't angsty 14 year olds ever sold, that's why there isn't a whole old EU filled almost exclusively with books for a general audience, with YA books barely being a thing :rolleyes: Also, being "the biggest name in YA" is like being the most popular cow manure provider. There is definitely a reason for their work to exist, but in the end they're still just producing crap. :shrug: If Disney could hire some real writers on a more regular basis to produce books for people who aren't in the demographic that reads shit like Twilight and Hunger Games , the new canon books might actually be good consistently as opposed to being mixed, leaning toward garbage more often then not.

    Plus, as someone who was pretty much exclusively reading general audience books even when i was in the YA demographic, Disney can sell normal books to YA aged readers, too. Many would probably prefer them to the shit being peddled directly to them.
     
  18. Koric

    Koric Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Lol I agree with Kirk55555. Its totally true. I think YA novels are kind of pointless in a way. I was 8 years old carrying around the gold cover Star Wars novelization by Alan Dean Foster. Bring the YA crowd up to a better level for everyone else not down. I think the biggest problem is FINDING AND PAYING GOOD WRITERS PERIOD.

    Then the junk in Star Wars will hopefully disappear. Look the painful truth is this:

    Out of 300 some odd novels in the EU MAYBE 20 are awesome the rest are head scratchers. Timothy Zahn, A.C. Crispin, L. Neil Smith, Brian Daley, James Luceno are all GOLD just to name a few.

    But since throwing the EU away what are come after makes no sense to me. Novels are disjointed and have ZERO impact or tell anything NEW. All the novels since 2014 involve one or two characters in one or two situations.

    Hey Kirk can we turn you loose on that hack named Chuck Wendig?
    He is not a good writer much less a NASTY person period. Give what for man. :)

    But what makes no sense to me at all, if the EU is so worthless from a publisher standpoint. Why are they RAISING the ebook prices to $8.99 all of a sudden.

    To throw away the EU was an INSULT to some GREAT WRITERS both living and passed that gave only their best to be disrespected. In my opinion.

    It may be a reason why most authors wont get involved in Star Wars now. Why would you want to write a book that someone contradicts or negates in some way? Then what's the point?

    All the best,
    -Koric
     
  19. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The books can't really do anything significant since the movies, TV series, and comics are telling the bigger stories.
    I've actually really liked what they've been doing with the novels, using them mostly for backstory and character based stories. One of the things that novels have over the other is really being able to go deep into the characters and they seem to be focusing on that.
    I'm honestly baffled by the hate towards YA, I've read all three Hunger Games books, two Maze Runner, Divergent, and Under The Never Sky, and other than the characters ages I enjoyed all of them just as much as the adult books I've read. Other than the ages of the main characters I didn't really notice that much of a difference from the adult novels I read too.
    What has Chuck Wendig done that was so nasty?
    As for throwing away the EU that was not disrespectful, they really had no choice once they decided to do new movies set after Return of the Jedi. There was no way they were going to actually make the movies follow what the books and comics had done, so at that point they really had no choice.
     
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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    That is the nature of writing in a franchise, especially one like Star Wars, Star Trek, and even Halo.

    No one was disrespected. No one was insulted. The books exist and the stories live on. It is highly short sighted to say that the only stories worth telling are the ones already written.
     
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