Star Trek Voyager: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer
- Thread starter timothy
- Start date
Back to the subject of the cover . . .
I'm kinda sad we are still seeing Voyager in its old configuration. I was hoping Mark Rademaker's refit design was going to make it to the cover. I was REALLY hoping to see a depiction of Voyager among its fleet.
I'm kinda sad we are still seeing Voyager in its old configuration. I was hoping Mark Rademaker's refit design was going to make it to the cover. I was REALLY hoping to see a depiction of Voyager among its fleet.
I'm neutral on Voyager's appearance, but seeing Voyager with all it's spiffy upgrades would be rather cool, plus an image of the fleet would be one heck of a cover.
That being said, this cover may not be final; covers do change before the novels are released, and seeing as there are close to five months until this novel is released it could change. That's one of the reasons why I am still skeptical as to whether or not Janeway returns (as much as I would like her to).
Very good point, which I'll confess hadn't occurred to me.
Of course, it doesn't really work for The Flash, The Human Torch, Martian Manhunter, Captain America...
How about respectful to every woman who reads your post and is upset by the imagery of hideous sexual violence you employed so casually? Not to mention all the men who were equally offended by it? It was an incredibly disturbing, misogynistic thing to say, particularly over "nothing truly important."
I completely agree.
QFT!
The objection to the Phoenix isn't about the underlying metaphor, but the increasingly lazy justifications for Jean Grey's return in the comics. No one just says "This is the mechanism by which she can die and come back" and leave it. (You also have the deeper problem that it was later changed to the idea that the Phoenix was a separate being that Jean Grey which further complicated later story lines where Jean Grey died and came back without the benefit of the Phoenix Force. But that's another thing entirely.) My joke, as well, was less about the Phoenix itself and more about the revolving door of death Jean Grey has been since the 70s. She once died and came back and died again within the same 5 issue storyline. It's about devaluing death. And I love the Phoenix, I love where they went with the storyline. But lately there hasn't been a "Price" for coming back. People just plop out of the dirt and say "Alright, alright, alright" like so many McConaugheys.
So yes, the idea of using the Phoenix as a metaphor is of course linked to life, death, rebirth. But... the comic character named Phoenix went from interesting concept of said metaphor to big joke for death in literature.
And besides all of this, my joke was really more surface-based about two story lines whose covers/advertisements heavily hint at an impending resurrection of a beloved, red-headed kick ass woman. Though what the end result of both Eternal Tide and Avengers Versus X-Men are both unknown.
Janeway's a brunette...
Could we have something like they put in one of the Titan books - i.e. a plan showing the ship from several angles, but this time for the different ship classes in the DQ fleet ?
Or put one online...
Agreed. Well said, Christopher.
Just to clarify this (sorry, getting way off topic here): what are these repeated incidents of Jean Grey's death that everyone always talks about? As far as I know, the only deaths Jean Grey has (and I mean that the audience was supposed to believe were Jean Grey) was her original in UXM #137 in 1980 and her more recent death in NXM #150 in 2003/2004. I never read the second one, as I think Grant Morrison is a hack writer who gets praise for writing weird crap and calling it original even if it's just a redoing of a previous story about the same characters (i.e., death of Phoenix), but I assume that's what you are referring to. The thing is, when people bring this up it's usually those who mention their hatred of her resurrection but praise her killing off for the second time. You don't want Jean to come back from the dead? Don't kill her!
The whole argument of removing death = removing suspense is nonsense, though. I mean, when I was 12 and Captain Picard was assimilated by the Borg, I was really wondering whether he was gone forever. But now, as a cynical adult who knows about actor contracts (or for comics, sales figures for popular characters), I can still feel suspense despite this. It's only in series finales or shows that advertise their stupid "someone will die next episode!" that I ever genuinely worry about a major character dying forever. I have not stopped reading comics or enjoying Star Trek. And I can enjoy stuff I've already seen or read, knowing full well how that turns out.
Jean 'died' first, only to be replaced by the Phoenix entity copy of her. Then that died, on the Moon. Jean was later found and revived. She died again in GM's run and then came back before merging with the Phoenix entity.
Magneto's actually a bigger culprit for repeated 'deaths' and resurrections.
Magneto's actually a bigger culprit for repeated 'deaths' and resurrections.
Well said Christopher!!
Simple Sisko said he was coming back and Janeway was told she wasn't coming back and was in fact going off to some kind of after life.
That's a very poor analogy. Scotty wasn't "killed" any more than anybody who enters a transporter. What he did was more akin to rigging a form of suspended animation -- modifying the transporter in such a way that it was able to retain his pattern in the buffer for about 5 million times longer than it's normally capable of. Aside from the timescale involved, it's the same principle whereby Kang and the Klingons in "Day of the Dove" were held in dematerialized state for a few moments when they were beamed aboard the Enterprise, or how the telepaths in VGR: "Counterpoint" were held in transporter suspension to hide them from the Devore.
^(Hartzilla)^ Didn't Q pretty much say the same thing to Picard at the beginning of "Tapestry"? Then he taught Picard a lesson before saving his life. Throughout Before Dishonor, Q was trying to humble Janeway. Who knows, perhaps that lesson was continuing during her absence.
Q can change their minds on a whim. Take people through space and time and bring back the dead. If a Q is involved, anything is possible.
Q can change their minds on a whim. Take people through space and time and bring back the dead. If a Q is involved, anything is possible.
To people unfamiliar with transporter technology, it would seem that someone is being vaporized/killed only to be reconstructed/resurrected elsewhere. To us, who cannot comprehend the powers and abilities of the prophets and Q continuum, it may seem that someone is being killed when they really are not.
What is magic or unbelievable to one may be a simple task to a higher being. I don't see how this is a poor analogy; it is a matter of perspective.
