In any case, there really is no definite "edge" to the galaxy. The stars just get sparser until at some point you find yourself in the intergalactic void. As David Gerrold said, "It's like trying to bisect a sneeze."
Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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True enough. But humans do mark borders and we’ve been doing it for a very long time and will continue doing it. A lot of borders between countries are agreed upon lines even if there is no actual physical border visible beyond occasional features in the landscape like a river or something.
However, in WNMHGB we’re presented with an actual physical border between interstellar and intergalactic space in the form of the newly encountered energy barrier.
We have to take the barrier and all that with a grain of salt and on faith since the barrier is a thin strip that the ship should be able to go around. We're stuck with the information they gave us, both verbally and visually. Everything else is just "making it work" - but since I love this episode no end, I indulge. It just does seem weird that, in a way, everyone is kind of imprisoned in the galaxy by this barrier. Nobody would care because the galaxy is so vast, but once that barrier is discovered, I can't imagine it wouldn't be studied and a way found to penetrate. And since nobody got "Godded" in By Any Other Name and Is There is Truth No Beauty (allowing they crossed back through the barrier), I can assume they sussed it out.
Delta Vega is close enough to the barrier to get there in a few "light days." But since the warp drive is out, how long did it take for them to arrive? Regardless, it's far enough out for the ore ships to only call "once every 20 years." I'm fine with the planet being there, having a luthium cracking station and being fully automated.
Delta Vega is close enough to the barrier to get there in a few "light days." But since the warp drive is out, how long did it take for them to arrive? Regardless, it's far enough out for the ore ships to only call "once every 20 years." I'm fine with the planet being there, having a luthium cracking station and being fully automated.
I have long imagined that the barrier was actually more than just a strip of energy, but that it was visible only when viewed at a particular angle. In that light maybe you can’t go over or under it and if you tried that part of the barrier would seem as if it’s always directly in front of or behind you.
Another possibility is the barrier could be a periodic or cyclical phenomena that just happened to be there when first the Valiant and later the Enterprise came along.
Another possibility is the barrier could be a periodic or cyclical phenomena that just happened to be there when first the Valiant and later the Enterprise came along.
Yeah, it's not a fence.
Agreed. After WNMHGB, I'd say Spock and the Enterprise Science Division wrote research papers that led to fleet-wide shield upgrades. In "By Any Other Name," the new shields were up and running.
Thus Mitchell and Dehner, and the other nine who died, had something in common with the pioneers of radium and medical X-rays, many of whom died because the need for radiation shielding was discovered too late for them, and because of them.
Keep Out. Beware of Space Dogs.
Poor Gary.
Maybe the barrier isn't just a strip but actually encapsulates the whole galaxy top, bottom, and around the edge. Like a sandwich wrapped in cellophane. And by the way, what's the explanation for the existence of the barrier anyway?
I guess the thinking was that there's often a barrier around astronomical objects and systems, like the Earth's ozone layer or the solar system's heliosphere, so they imagined there was one around the galaxy too. It wasn't put there by godlike aliens or anything like that, it's just a naturally occurring phenomenon.
That's how I tend to ustify it too.
My guess is the inspiration was the Van Allen belts, detected in 1958 by instruments aboard the Explorer 1 satellite.
Late to the party on my S3 rewatch, but I just watched And the Children Shall Lead. For being one of the most hated episodes, I THOROUGHLY enjoyed it. It didn't really come across campy, had a definite creepy factor, and I really wanted to know more about the history of the system, the "evil", how it all worked, etc. I also had a bit of TFF feeling, with people facing their fears, and the ship being taken over by a cult, and realized that the two most hated episodes, this and the space hippies, were combined (probably accidentally) to create the most "hated" of the movies, which I also have always loved and defended, so I guess its no surprise that I enjoyed this one. S3 hasn't been disappointing at all so far..... it is very hard for me to find "bad" TOS. It also very much seemed like the food dispensers were acting very much like card-activated replicators lol. It was very forward thinking when they pulled out the audio recording of the children to summon the "Angel"... It was like Supernatural meets Star Trek, and I loved every minute of it.
(Its been a LONG time since I revisited some of these episodes, to be honest.)
(Its been a LONG time since I revisited some of these episodes, to be honest.)
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I really don't think it's that bad. It's not my favorite but it's not on my "avoid at all costs" list.
"The Cloud Minders" by Margaret Armen (based on a story by David Gerrold and Oliver Crawford)
Ah, the labor episode. As someone who grew up with coal mines and steel mills, I was always firmly on the side of the Troglytes. This episode is as subtle as a sledgehammer, but then so is the reality it's based on.
Enterprise arrives at the planet Ardana to take on a shipment of zenite, needed elsewhere to halt a botanical plague. Kirk and Spock beam to the mine, but the shipment isn't there and some mine workers attempt to take them hostage. High Advisor Plasus arrives with a security force, driving the miners off, and invites Kirk and Spock to return with him to the floating city of Stratos.
The powerful literally live above the workers, dedicating themselves to art and intellectual pursuits, while believing the Troglytes are literally an inferior species (they are the same species). All the bullshit I've heard in my life about "inferiors" is on display here. All that's missing is for the Troglytes to be Black or brown.
Plasus talks about how they've grown beyond violence, but tortures Vanna, the leader of the rebels. Kirk and Spock are both horrified. Plasus kicks them off planet. Back on the ship, McCoy has determined that gas in the mines diminishes mental capacity and heightens emotions, but the effect wears off when removed from the mines, enabling the Troglytes on Stratos to organize rebellion.
Kirk offers simple gas masks for the miners, but neither Plasus nor Vanna believes him about the gas. Frustrated, Kirk causes himself, Plasus, and Vanna to be trapped in a mine. After a short time, the gas makes them aggressive and Plasus and Kirk fight. Vanna realizes what's happened and calls Enterprise for help. They are all beamed up.
Later, Vanna delivers the zenite to Kirk. Plasus, still stubbornly clinging to his biases, doesn't think the masks will work and continues to argue. Kirk offers Federation assistance, but Plasus is a jerk. Vanna is committed to her people's fight for equality.
Interestingly, there's no real resolution and the struggle will continue. It reminded me of a lot of things in the real world, like worker safety, disregard for and prejudice against the workers who actually keep things running, societal stratification, and plain old racism.
The ubiquitous character actor Jeff Corey was Plasus and he really sold the Avisor's point of view. Diana Ewing was Droxine, his daughter, who was enamored of Spock (and it seemed to be at least a little mutual). Droxine's innocence and change to questioning her assumptions was well done. Charlene Polite was nicely fiesty and committed as Vanna.
Ah, the labor episode. As someone who grew up with coal mines and steel mills, I was always firmly on the side of the Troglytes. This episode is as subtle as a sledgehammer, but then so is the reality it's based on.
Enterprise arrives at the planet Ardana to take on a shipment of zenite, needed elsewhere to halt a botanical plague. Kirk and Spock beam to the mine, but the shipment isn't there and some mine workers attempt to take them hostage. High Advisor Plasus arrives with a security force, driving the miners off, and invites Kirk and Spock to return with him to the floating city of Stratos.
The powerful literally live above the workers, dedicating themselves to art and intellectual pursuits, while believing the Troglytes are literally an inferior species (they are the same species). All the bullshit I've heard in my life about "inferiors" is on display here. All that's missing is for the Troglytes to be Black or brown.
Plasus talks about how they've grown beyond violence, but tortures Vanna, the leader of the rebels. Kirk and Spock are both horrified. Plasus kicks them off planet. Back on the ship, McCoy has determined that gas in the mines diminishes mental capacity and heightens emotions, but the effect wears off when removed from the mines, enabling the Troglytes on Stratos to organize rebellion.
Kirk offers simple gas masks for the miners, but neither Plasus nor Vanna believes him about the gas. Frustrated, Kirk causes himself, Plasus, and Vanna to be trapped in a mine. After a short time, the gas makes them aggressive and Plasus and Kirk fight. Vanna realizes what's happened and calls Enterprise for help. They are all beamed up.
Later, Vanna delivers the zenite to Kirk. Plasus, still stubbornly clinging to his biases, doesn't think the masks will work and continues to argue. Kirk offers Federation assistance, but Plasus is a jerk. Vanna is committed to her people's fight for equality.
Interestingly, there's no real resolution and the struggle will continue. It reminded me of a lot of things in the real world, like worker safety, disregard for and prejudice against the workers who actually keep things running, societal stratification, and plain old racism.
The ubiquitous character actor Jeff Corey was Plasus and he really sold the Avisor's point of view. Diana Ewing was Droxine, his daughter, who was enamored of Spock (and it seemed to be at least a little mutual). Droxine's innocence and change to questioning her assumptions was well done. Charlene Polite was nicely fiesty and committed as Vanna.
The ending not being a full resolution and being more like real life makes this another example of many TOS episodes having believable endings.
One of the big reasons I like 'The Orville', real life does not have convenient resolutions wrapped up neatly
Haha..I always liked the Gertrude effects..Speaking of Man Trap, this has to be the worst TOS not-so-special effect EVER...
Gertrude?!?! A man’s hand in a pink plastic glove...
"The Savage Curtain" by Gene Roddenberry and Arthur Heinemann (based on an original story by Roddenberry)
Enterprise is checking out a planet of magma. Weirdly, there are carbon-based life signs. However, they can't survive on the planet, so they prepare to leave. Suddenly...
Lincoln in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Part of the planet changes to become Earthlike. They beam Lincoln up, giving him full Presidential honors, and show him around the ship. Uhura has a lovely moment with him. For some reason even he doesn't understand, Lincoln knows about Vulcan philosophy.
Kirk and Spock go back to the planet with Lincoln. Their phasers and tricorder do not go with them and their communicators don't work. Spock is surprised to find Surak, the "father of Vulcan civilization."
A rock creature appears and says his people want to learn of "good" and "evil" and see which is stronger. The "evil" side consists of Earth warlord Colonel Green, Klingon warlord Kahless, Zora, a practitioner of unethical experiments, and Genghis Khan. (Zora and Genghis do not have their SAG cards and have no lines.)
Colonel Green offers Kirk an alliance against the rock people, but this is only a distraction for a surprise attack. Breaking away, Team Good all agree the rock people are their real enemy. To force Kirk and Spock to fight, the rock creatures disable the Enterprise and will cause it to explode in 4 hours unless "good" wins.
Surak, a dedicated pacifist, goes to Team Evil to offer peace. Soon after, Spock hears Surak crying out for help in an obvious trap. Lincoln has Kirk and Spock do a frontal attack while he sneaks in the rear to free Surak. However, Surak is already dead and Kahless had been imitating him. TE kill Lincoln and he falls at Kirk's feet.
Kirk and Spock fight TE and kill both Kahless and Green; Zora and Genghis flee. The rock creature concludes that there is nothing different between good and evil because the methods used to fight each other are the same (which is a good point, but not the one Gene's trying to make here). Kirk replies that the others fought for power while Team Good fought for the lives of others.
The rock creature fixes Enterprise and lets Kirk and Spock go back to her. Spock thinks the rock creatures transformed other beings into the historical figures, using Kirk and Spock's minds to give Lincoln and Surak personalities (where do Green's and Kahless' come from then?).
A middling episode, enlivened by Lee Bergere's Lincoln and Phillip Pine's Green. The best thing I can say about it was that it expanded the lore of the show, with both Kahless and Surak being referred to later in other Trek (was Green? I can't remember).
Enterprise is checking out a planet of magma. Weirdly, there are carbon-based life signs. However, they can't survive on the planet, so they prepare to leave. Suddenly...
Lincoln in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
Part of the planet changes to become Earthlike. They beam Lincoln up, giving him full Presidential honors, and show him around the ship. Uhura has a lovely moment with him. For some reason even he doesn't understand, Lincoln knows about Vulcan philosophy.
Kirk and Spock go back to the planet with Lincoln. Their phasers and tricorder do not go with them and their communicators don't work. Spock is surprised to find Surak, the "father of Vulcan civilization."
A rock creature appears and says his people want to learn of "good" and "evil" and see which is stronger. The "evil" side consists of Earth warlord Colonel Green, Klingon warlord Kahless, Zora, a practitioner of unethical experiments, and Genghis Khan. (Zora and Genghis do not have their SAG cards and have no lines.)
Colonel Green offers Kirk an alliance against the rock people, but this is only a distraction for a surprise attack. Breaking away, Team Good all agree the rock people are their real enemy. To force Kirk and Spock to fight, the rock creatures disable the Enterprise and will cause it to explode in 4 hours unless "good" wins.
Surak, a dedicated pacifist, goes to Team Evil to offer peace. Soon after, Spock hears Surak crying out for help in an obvious trap. Lincoln has Kirk and Spock do a frontal attack while he sneaks in the rear to free Surak. However, Surak is already dead and Kahless had been imitating him. TE kill Lincoln and he falls at Kirk's feet.
Kirk and Spock fight TE and kill both Kahless and Green; Zora and Genghis flee. The rock creature concludes that there is nothing different between good and evil because the methods used to fight each other are the same (which is a good point, but not the one Gene's trying to make here). Kirk replies that the others fought for power while Team Good fought for the lives of others.
The rock creature fixes Enterprise and lets Kirk and Spock go back to her. Spock thinks the rock creatures transformed other beings into the historical figures, using Kirk and Spock's minds to give Lincoln and Surak personalities (where do Green's and Kahless' come from then?).
A middling episode, enlivened by Lee Bergere's Lincoln and Phillip Pine's Green. The best thing I can say about it was that it expanded the lore of the show, with both Kahless and Surak being referred to later in other Trek (was Green? I can't remember).
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